Let's discuss NBA fan culture

[The Six]

Fouls aren't the problem, as late game fouling's part of the sport and its strategy.

It's not part of the sport; it's part of the NBA. By no means is it a necessary part of the game.

[rams80]

Fouls aren't the problem, as late game fouling's part of the sport and its strategy.

It's not part of the sport; it's part of the NBA. By no means is it a necessary part of the game.

It's part of the sport. You see it in college all the time.

[loogodude90]

My biggest problem with the sport of basketball is the very idea of the foul. These are the largest athletes in the world playing on the smallest surface and the entire game has to stop if someone nudges someone else. Eliminate the ticky-tack fouls from the rule book altogether is my solution.

That's how things would get out of hand, though. That's why the refs tightened down on fouls. If they start allowing more contact, there's more of a chance of something seriously bad happening.

To your second question, yes I would love to see chaos. There's way too many timeouts in basketball. Mistakes made by professionals who should know what they're doing by now is more fun to watch than choreography. That's what the halftime dancers are for.

Wow. Just wow. I'm kind of glad the NBA has lost a "fan" like you. I find it hard to believe you ever seriously watched basketball.

But again, I literally don't watch the sport, so I'm following your suggestion.

No you're not. You're still here. My suggestion was to get out of here and let people who actually watch basketball discuss it. I don't stick my nose into threads I have no interest in, I don't know why anyone would.

I agree on both counts, McCarthy - that's a big reason why I stopped following the sport years ago.

Because I often come into contact or encounter the 'culture' despite my best efforts to avoid it and the thread is called "let's discuss NBA fan culture". Now, my last few posts haven't related to the culture as much as the sport and I'll admit that, but I Looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooogodude asked me a question so I answered it.

Oh, you can avoid it if you want. It seems more that you just like to complain for the sake of complaining.

Plus some of us used to be big fans before the league went to hell, so I think wanting to see it return to the level of it's glory days is worthy of us complaining about it even if we've mainly stopped watching it do to the aforementioned sucking.

Then you're not caught up with the game. You're no longer a fan, so you don't know what you are talking about here. Leave.

[CS85]

You there! Yes, you! Are you me?

No?

Then you're not a fan! I declare you lower than feces and your opinions are from this point onward inutile.

[Sport]

My biggest problem with the sport of basketball is the very idea of the foul. These are the largest athletes in the world playing on the smallest surface and the entire game has to stop if someone nudges someone else. Eliminate the ticky-tack fouls from the rule book altogether is my solution.

That's how things would get out of hand, though.  That's why the refs tightened down on fouls.  If they start allowing more contact, there's more of a chance of something seriously bad happening.

Flagrant fouls are necessary because I don't want it to get dangerous, but I think it's ridiculous that if you brush someone who ran into you, then you get called for the foul and then everything has to stop and then we have to stand around while one guy gets free shots. Drawing fouls by jumping into the defender is one of the most backwards rules in sports. It'd be a better game with more flow if they were allowed to play the game instead of stopping every other possession because somebody grazed somebody else.

To your second question, yes I would love to see chaos. There's way too many timeouts in basketball. Mistakes made by professionals who should know what they're doing by now is more fun to watch than choreography. That's what the halftime dancers are for.

Wow. Just wow. I'm kind of glad the NBA has lost a "fan" like you. I find it hard to believe you ever seriously watched basketball.

I was never a fan so they never lost me. I'm kind of glad I never was a fan.

But again, I literally don't watch the sport, so I'm following your suggestion.

No you're not. You're still here. My suggestion was to get out of here and let people who actually watch basketball discuss it. I don't stick my nose into threads I have no interest in, I don't know why anyone would.

This is about NBA fan culture, which I'm interested in dissecting. I am not interested in the NBA as it unfolds, which is why I rarely pop up in the NBA season thread. I can't even remember the last time I read it. You also won't find me in the WWE threads, Tnak's celebrity death threads, or anything in the concepts section.

Because I often come into contact or encounter the 'culture' despite my best efforts to avoid it and the thread is called "let's discuss NBA fan culture". Now, my last few posts haven't related to the culture as much as the sport and I'll admit that, but I Looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooogodude asked me a question so I answered it.

Oh, you can avoid it if you want. It seems more that you just like to complain for the sake of complaining.

Except I can't. Sportscenter, can't watch that show anymore (not that I'd want to). ESPN.com, can't go to that website anymore. Casual discussion about sports with coworkers that are basketball fans, can't discuss sports with them. And I have friends who are Cleveland Cavs fans that go out of their way to bash my sporting interests. It finds me, I bump into it. I'm not trying to hear news about the NBA and yet I know what's going on. I'm actively trying to avoid it and I know that the Thunder are in the finals.

It seems more that you just like to complain for the sake of complaining.

Wrong. I'm discussing a genuine complaint about something that I don't enjoy and talking about how I think it could be improved. I'm not complaining just because I felt like complaining.

But, I ask you, why must I be a diehard to discuss basketball's flaws and its culture of fans?

[charger77]

I'll admit that I only follow the NBA when the Pistons are good and to check in to see who is winning a play off series. My question though is that many NHL fans and NHL outsiders cry up a storm that certian teams winning, being successful or making the Finals is "bad for the league". Granted Durant is one of the best players in the league, but OKC isn't a major market... is OKC making the Finals (or even winning it all) "bad for the NBA"?

[OnWis97]

I'll admit that I only follow the NBA when the Pistons are good and to check in to see who is winning a play off series. My question though is that many NHL fans and NHL outsiders cry up a storm that certian teams winning, being successful or making the Finals is "bad for the league". Granted Durant is one of the best players in the league, but OKC isn't a major market... is OKC making the Finals (or even winning it all) "bad for the NBA"?

As a sports fan, my fandom is never influenced by the market sizes winning championships (unless I feel that it's only big markets, which is kind of a turn-off, most notably in the NBA).

But from a bottom line perspective, I'll say "maybe" for this year. Right now, the NBA would rather have the Lakers vs. whoever wins the east. Lakers/Celtics will always be a draw. The reason, though, that I say "maybe" is because I think the TV ratings can handle OKC if they play Miami. People will tune in to watch (and most often cheer against) the Heat. I tend to think that OKC/Boston will not draw huge. Boston picks some viewers up, though.

However, OKC has a chance to have some very interesting long-term impacts. Aside from big markets, the league thrives on superstars and teams fans can count on to be there every year. OKC has a couple of stars and they are young. This team may be in the hunt every year. It really looks like they could have a period of being a preimer franchise...honestly, I'd never have thought that would happen in a market like OKC. Should they become perennially successful, then they'll be a good TV draw, and this year may be looked upon as a key step in that direction.

I like it. I don't like the same teams every year. I don't like to see a league dependent on LA making it every year. OKC is young and fun to watch. And it will be a great contrast with Boston taking, most likely, it's last shot at a title with this group.

[charger77]

I'm with you.

I get the draw of a Lakers vs Celtics, Knicks or Heat Finals because they are marquee teams.

Just like Pit, Det, Phi, Chi, NYR & (Tor or MTL) in the Stanley Cup Finals.

As I have asked a million times before... Why have a 30 team league if you don't want them all to win.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

I don't think OKC of 2012 is much different than the Spurs of 1999, 2003, 2005 or 2007. It's a small market with the best team (as of now at least) that's primed for future success.

I think that, just like with the Spurs, you'll have larger markets come back next year or in following years to both push OKC and regain the national spotlight. In the meantime, and I think this is partially what this thread is getting at, there's a market for smaller, humbler, more accessible teams. Perhaps the Thunder can bring collegiate-style fans in a similar fashion to how the Bulls expanded the NBA back in the early 90s.

The NBA will always belong to the Lakers first and everyone else second, but these blip years can be pretty exciting/interesting to see what happens when a secondary market wins out. I think most of us have already forgotten Dallas' run from last year. Unless the Thunder go on a two- or three-year championship run, maybe the same happens with them?

[The Six]

Fouls aren't the problem, as late game fouling's part of the sport and its strategy.

It's not part of the sport; it's part of the NBA. By no means is it a necessary part of the game.

It's part of the sport. You see it in college all the time.

No I don't, because I don't watch college sports.

The point is that it's not an integral part of the game like, say, dribbling is. Take away dribbling and it ceases to be basketball. Take away the intentional foulfest at the end of games and what do you get, tighter defense played? Plays on the ball by defenders trying to steal instead of rushing to foul the center who can't make foul shots? A final two minutes that doesn't take twenty? I'll take that.

[The_Admiral]

The Mavericks were a weird case as far as NBA champions go. it just felt like they were finally getting theirs after eight years of contending: 2003, 2005, 2006, and 2007 (they kinda coughed up that last Nash year) were all more memorable teams to me than the one that actually won. Lifetime Achievement Championship. And now they're all kind of old and not as good. The Thunder, on the other hand, feel like a team we're not done with just yet.

I wonder how many people in Oklahoma will still tell you that college basketball is better, by the way. Probably not that many! You've gotta give 'em that.

[tBBP]

I know one thing: if OKC wins the whole shebang...their logo and uniforms INSTANTLY become untouchable!

(Ain't that how it usually goes around here...can't change 'em if they win a 'ship in them? )

[DG_ThenNowForever]

I know one thing: if OKC wins the whole shebang...their logo and uniforms INSTANTLY become untouchable!

(Ain't that how it usually goes around here...can't change 'em if they win a 'ship in them? )

You can make exceptions for gross crimes against uniform professionalism. Their whole identity, in as much as they have one, is as white bread and non-threatening as their crowds. (Or perhaps that's the point. Clay Bennet outsmarts us all again.)

[infrared41]

Reading this thread has been interesting. All I really have to say is that I think the OKC crowds are great. They remind me of the professional sports crowds from back in the 70's and 80's when "regular" (read blue collar folks who made less than 200K a year) could still afford to fill a stadium or arena for a game. There's a good chance I'm way off the mark with this, but I think the less raucous crowds we see today are a direct result of the kind of people who attend the events. In other words, we're far more likely to see a bunch of blue collar folks "acting a fool" at a game than we are to see a bunch of white collar "executive" types doing it.

"Back in the day", places like the old Boston Garden or the Silverdome were packed to the rafters with "regular" fans. These days, there aren't as many "regular" fans and the ones that are there are up in the nosebleed seats.

None of that explains why the OKC crowds are the way they are, I just hope they keep it up.

[McCall]

Fouls aren't the problem, as late game fouling's part of the sport and its strategy.

It's not part of the sport; it's part of the NBA. By no means is it a necessary part of the game.

It's part of the sport. You see it in college all the time.

No I don't, because I don't watch college sports.

The point is that it's not an integral part of the game like, say, dribbling is. Take away dribbling and it ceases to be basketball. Take away the intentional foulfest at the end of games and what do you get, tighter defense played? Plays on the ball by defenders trying to steal instead of rushing to foul the center who can't make foul shots? A final two minutes that doesn't take twenty? I'll take that.

Your overall ignorance of the sport is showing (Though loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooogodud still doesn't have a case). It IS part of the strategy of the end of basketball games, at all levels. From Middle School up to the pros. It's not the fouling that's the problem. It's the other things, like the lengths of the time-outs, the number of time-outs, and the placement of the ball past midcourt AFTER the time-outs. Fouling to put someone at the line is a strategy, forcing them to make two shots to get the points rather than just one shot. And you get a better chance at a rebound while stopping the clock.

[McCall]

My biggest problem with the sport of basketball is the very idea of the foul. These are the largest athletes in the world playing on the smallest surface and the entire game has to stop if someone nudges someone else. Eliminate the ticky-tack fouls from the rule book altogether is my solution.

That's how things would get out of hand, though.  That's why the refs tightened down on fouls.  If they start allowing more contact, there's more of a chance of something seriously bad happening.

To your second question, yes I would love to see chaos. There's way too many timeouts in basketball. Mistakes made by professionals who should know what they're doing by now is more fun to watch than choreography. That's what the halftime dancers are for.

Wow. Just wow. I'm kind of glad the NBA has lost a "fan" like you. I find it hard to believe you ever seriously watched basketball.

But again, I literally don't watch the sport, so I'm following your suggestion.

No you're not. You're still here. My suggestion was to get out of here and let people who actually watch basketball discuss it. I don't stick my nose into threads I have no interest in, I don't know why anyone would.

I agree on both counts, McCarthy - that's a big reason why I stopped following the sport years ago.

Because I often come into contact or encounter the 'culture' despite my best efforts to avoid it and the thread is called "let's discuss NBA fan culture". Now, my last few posts haven't related to the culture as much as the sport and I'll admit that, but I Looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooogodude asked me a question so I answered it.

Oh, you can avoid it if you want. It seems more that you just like to complain for the sake of complaining.

Plus some of us used to be big fans before the league went to hell, so I think wanting to see it return to the level of it's glory days is worthy of us complaining about it even if we've mainly stopped watching it do to the aforementioned sucking.

Then you're not caught up with the game. You're no longer a fan, so you don't know what you are talking about here. Leave.

Yes, we do know what we're talking about here. You just have no business doing what you are doing here. Many of us who used to watch it before it sucked, have every right and every reason to be here praising it for what it was and lamenting it for what it has become. Many of us were fans before you even knew what the NBA was. Just because you like how it is, doesn't mean the rest of us have to as well or keep our mouths shut.

Maybe you should take your own advice.

[Sport]

I don't even understand what they're logo is. It certainly isn't representative of the word "Thunder"

I kinda like their blue uniforms though I wish their name and numbers were more like this:

OKLAHOMA

24

CITY

instead of:

OKLAHOMA

CITY

24

and their colors aren't the worst I've ever seen.

[Lights Out]

I for one will never forget Dallas' title run. Dirk's performance in those playoffs was the stuff of legend.

[Gothamite]

Yes, we do know what we're talking about here. You just have no business doing what you are doing here. Many of us who used to watch it before it sucked, have every right and every reason to be here praising it for what it was and lamenting it for what it has become. Many of us were fans before you even knew what the NBA was. Just because you like how it is, doesn't mean the rest of us have to as well or keep our mouths shut.

Precisely.

In a thread called "Let's discuss NBA fan culture", one would think that the impressions of those driven away by the NBA would be welcome. Why those fans were driven away, and how they might be won back.

[infrared41]

I don't even understand what they're logo is. It certainly isn't representative of the word "Thunder"

I kinda like their blue uniforms though I wish their name and numbers were more like this:

OKLAHOMA

24

CITY

instead of:

OKLAHOMA

CITY

24

and their colors aren't the worst I've ever seen.

Agreed on their road jerseys. Just my opinion, but I think their color scheme is great. One of my NBA favorites in fact.

With regard to the Thunder logo, I put it in the same category as the Lakers and Clippers; neither of them have much...hell, anything to do with the names of the teams. I know that's a real issue around here but it doesn't really bother me all that much. Still, if OKC is going to go that route, they could have done a better job with it. Their logo is not the apocalyptic disaster some make it out to be around here, but it's still a long way from good.

FAKE EDIT: The Nets fall into the "logo has nothing to do with the name" category too. Nothing wrong with simplicity. I suppose as long as the logo immediately brings to mind what it's supposed to represent, not much else matters.