College Football or the NFL?

[IceCap]

CFL über alles

NFL for me. It features the best players in the world, playing at the highest level of competition. NCAA football can be fun to watch, but it's kind of a "if it's on, and I have the time" kind of thing.

[thespleenenator]

CFL über alles

NFL for me. It features the best ayers in the world, playing at the highest level of competition. NCAA football can be fun to watch, but it's kind of a "if it's on, and I have the time" kind of thing.

To me, that's actually why I don't like the pros. It's not as fun to watch the pros play because you know what to expect. Since everyone is so even, upsets can't happen (well, they can, but let's face it, Stanford beating USC when USC was favored by about 50 is much more entertaining then if the Panthers beat the Giants). It's just so much more fun to watch college teams play.

[IceCap]

The Giants ending the Patriots' quest for perfection in Super Bowl XLII was pretty awesome. And who doesn't love the ending to Super Bowl XXXIV?

Upsets and exciting moments happen in the NFL too. The way this thread reads you'd swear the NFL consisted of four teams curb stomping everyone else.

Also I don't get the whole "I don't like watching the best players in the world, they're too good" mentality. If the more varied nature of NCAA offences makes that version of the game more appealing, cool. If the pageantry and crowd experience of NCAA football is your thing, cool. I just have a hard time buying the "but the fact that the players aren't the best makes it so good!" line. I don't even use that excuse to justify my CFL fandom

[CS85]

I like NFL Sundays more, but I enjoy the precursor to them with NCAA Saturdays. It's nice to casually watch a random game or two before settling into the pro game the next day.

[WSU151]

NFL for me. It features the best players in the world, playing at the highest level of competition. NCAA football can be fun to watch, but it's kind of a "if it's on, and I have the time" kind of thing.

This, though I may be a tad more excited about college than you. College football was fun when I was younger (probably because CFB meant it was the weekend). But now I'd much rather watch NFL.

[The_Admiral]

Since everyone is so even, upsets can't happen

There are probably more meaningful upsets in one week of NFL play than there are in a full college season where power-conference teams spend the first halves of their schedules blowing out hapless mid-majors and D1AAs who take big paychecks in exchange for all-but-certain losses.

[thespleenenator]

Since everyone is so even, upsets can't happen

There are probably more meaningful upsets in one week of NFL play than there are in a full college season where power-conference teams spend the first halves of their schedules blowing out hapless mid-majors and D1AAs who take big paychecks in exchange for all-but-certain losses.

......what?

[dfwabel]

Since everyone is so even, upsets can't happen

There are probably more meaningful upsets in one week of NFL play than there are in a full college season where power-conference teams spend the first halves of their schedules blowing out hapless mid-majors and D1AAs who take big paychecks in exchange for all-but-certain losses.

......what?

In a given week, the 32nd NFL team is more likely to beat the best NFL team than the worst FBS team is to beat the best FBS team.

The App State/Michigan game is the very rare occasion, but the Jacksonville St./Ole Miss result is more likely on the FBS vs. FCS scale. A decade ago, Fresno State beat Oregon St. when they were projected as #1, but that was also with 20 day to prepare for one team. Those games do not occur as much as you think they do. When Nevada beat Boise St., Nevada was ranked.

Honestly, in the 25 years before the Bowl Coalition and BCS, how many I-A/FBS teams were unexpectedly ONE game away from winning the "mythical national title" or even won it?

Seven, eight, or nine?

Teams like Nebraska, Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan, Florida, Nebraska, and even Washington were consistently elite and randomness played more of a factor.

1976: Pitt

1980-1981: Florida State

1982: Clemson

1984: Miami

1988: West Virginia

1990: Georgia Tech

1996: Arizona State

Overall, the world of NCAA major sports is still a serfdom, and if it was not sport, then the world would totally complain about it being unfair if not illegal.

[Chicageaux]

For me, college football is on another level. That being said, I still enjoy the NFL and get a different enjoyment out of it. I've been to college games and I've been to NFL games and at a college stadium, it's a completely different atmosphere. I've gotten goose pumps every time I've seen a game at Tiger Stadium, heck I even got them when I went down to U of I for a couple games, and I can only say that's happened to me once when I've gone to an NFL game.

It definitely has a lot to do with the tradition like other posters have said. For me it's a lot easier on Sunday to sit around and watch a Bears game with some buddies than it is to sit around on a Saturday and watch an LSU game.

[evanmaldonado]

Truthfully the NCAA bascially ruined college football for me. It's not fun for me to see the amount of control a group of rich dudes have over the players, the constant scandals and corruption, and how seriously people take it.

[bosrs1]

Why wasn't the CFL an option as an answer?

I'm not even Canadian and for some reason I find CFL football as, if not more, entertaining than either College or the NFL.

[OnWis97]

As a kid I preferred the NFL, but after spending four years with student tickets, I changed. For me it's college and it's not even close. As for the corruption, etc., I for the most part am looking the other way, I admit it. I know, the NFL playoffs make more sense and are more fair. But while college football has the worst postseason, it has the most fun regular season.

After getting to college, college football "moved up" for me because of the history/pageantry/atmosphere, etc. I love going to games...I don't care if I ever go to an NFL game again. In the meantime, the NFL has "moved down" for me. And a HUGE part of that is probably me reacting to the unbelievable coverage of the NFL. Yeah, I've never lived at a time when the NFL was not #1, but it's all I hear about now. I don't hate ESPN as much as most people, but I find myself not watching as much because it's essentially becoming the NFL Network. The AM SportsCenter this past week was primarily devoted to watching the view of a camera placed somewhere above Jets training camp. If the NFL is the best, then I guess I should not let that bug me, but through it all, I guess I have also decided that Eagles/Giants, Pats/Jets, etc. don't hold a candle in terms of intrigue to any significant college rivalry. I used to listen to Mike and Mike while getting ready for work. I still do sometimes, but I was really turned off by the February "two-a-days" they did. It's essentially an NFL program. And I am just tired of the NFL hype. I guess I've decided that the NFL does not meet the hype. And it's all turned me off. I try to just follow the Vikings and ignore the rest...at least until the playoffs.

The bottom line is that if I get to "couch potato" one day way, I much prefer to do so on Saturday. Random games are more fun for me than Steelers/Ravens game 1 of 2.

[dfwabel]

As a kid I preferred the NFL, but after spending four years with student tickets, I changed. For me it's college and it's not even close. As for the corruption, etc., I for the most part am looking the other way, I admit it. I know, the NFL playoffs make more sense and are more fair. But while college football has the worst postseason, it has the most fun regular season.

After getting to college, college football "moved up" for me because of the history/pageantry/atmosphere, etc. I love going to games...I don't care if I ever go to an NFL game again. In the meantime, the NFL has "moved down" for me. And a HUGE part of that is probably me reacting to the unbelievable coverage of the NFL. Yeah, I've never lived at a time when the NFL was not #1, but it's all I hear about now. I don't hate ESPN as much as most people, but I find myself not watching as much because it's essentially becoming the NFL Network. The AM SportsCenter this past week was primarily devoted to watching the view of a camera placed somewhere above Jets training camp. If the NFL is the best, then I guess I should not let that bug me, but through it all, I guess I have also decided that Eagles/Giants, Pats/Jets, etc. don't hold a candle in terms of intrigue to any significant college rivalry. I used to listen to Mike and Mike while getting ready for work. I still do sometimes, but I was really turned off by the February "two-a-days" they did. It's essentially an NFL program. And I am just tired of the NFL hype. I guess I've decided that the NFL does not meet the hype. And it's all turned me off. I try to just follow the Vikings and ignore the rest...at least until the playoffs.

The bottom line is that if I get to "couch potato" one day way, I much prefer to do so on Saturday. Random games are more fun for me than Steelers/Ravens game 1 of 2.

And college football is not year round? There still is an old saying about the three seasons of college football:

"Football, Spring Football and Recruiting"

The HS player who graduated early to enter the college in January or the six year old who is purposely left back so he can play a sport a decade to get a scholarship later illustrates more of the madness.

[thespleenenator]

Since everyone is so even, upsets can't happen

There are probably more meaningful upsets in one week of NFL play than there are in a full college season where power-conference teams spend the first halves of their schedules blowing out hapless mid-majors and D1AAs who take big paychecks in exchange for all-but-certain losses.

......what?

In a given week, the 32nd NFL team is more likely to beat the best NFL team than the worst FBS team is to beat the best FBS team.

The App State/Michigan game is the very rare occasion, but the Jacksonville St./Ole Miss result is more likely on the FBS vs. FCS scale. A decade ago, Fresno State beat Oregon St. when they were projected as #1, but that was also with 20 day to prepare for one team. Those games do not occur as much as you think they do. When Nevada beat Boise St., Nevada was ranked.

Honestly, in the 25 years before the Bowl Coalition and BCS, how many I-A/FBS teams were unexpectedly ONE game away from winning the "mythical national title" or even won it?

Seven, eight, or nine?

Teams like Nebraska, Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan, Florida, Nebraska, and even Washington were consistently elite and randomness played more of a factor.

1976: Pitt

1980-1981: Florida State

1982: Clemson

1984: Miami

1988: West Virginia

1990: Georgia Tech

1996: Arizona State

Overall, the world of NCAA major sports is still a serfdom, and if it was not sport, then the world would totally complain about it being unfair if not illegal.

You're still not making sense. I was saying "what" to the assertion that there are more meaningful upsets in the first week of the NFL season then in the whole College football season. That isn't even mathematically possible.

Let's take a look at the first NCAA week and the first NFL week, and look for upsets. Now, an upset to me is if someone is favored by 10 or more points, and loses, however, because there wasn't a single NFL game during week 1 that was more then a 10 point favorite, we'll have to adjust it to 9. So let's look at this:

NCAA: Oregon loses to Sac St., Notre Dame loses the South Florida, Richmond beats Duke.

NFL:0

There was not a single NFL game where that happened. So right there, that disproves that argument.

[Gary]

I'm with Sean, I enjoy both equally. Probably because I am in a city with both NFL and College Football, at the same time high school football is huge here as well.

[Lights Out]

College football with a fair March Madness-style playoff would be the best sport in the American sporting world - even better than the NFL, IMHO.

Until that day, though, while I love college football, it will always be #2 to the NFL. The current poll system makes things WAY too predictable. You can pretty much predict that an SEC school is going to win it all again this year, simply because half the conference is ranked in preseason, deserving or not, which artificially juices the whole conference's SOS. Then the disappointments take forever to drop out of the polls because ESS EEE SEE PAWWWLLLL, and the SEC gets to use their beloved strength of schedule argument.

Never mind the fact that the SOS argument is flawed beyond belief in a system where all the "name" schools spend the first month or so buying cupcake wins because they can't afford to challenge themselves against a Boise State, Baylor, Stanford, Oklahoma State, etc. who could very well beat them. Then these same schools are quick to shout "CUPCAKE SCHEDULE" when less prestigious schools are left out in the cold. The ability of power schools to refuse to play certain schools and then influence the pollsters and the bowls to pass on those same schools for scheduling reasons demonstrates how :censored:ed up the current system is, and people actually ACCEPT this!

(By the way, the lamest argument in favor of this are the SEC fans' claims that they "play an NFL-esque gauntlet" in conference play, so they're entitled to play cupcakes. Last I checked, you still have Ole Miss, Miss St., Vanderbilt, Tennessee, a suddenly-terrible Florida, and now Texas A&M.)

Bowl selection is just an extension on the same high school clique behavior that permeates the polls. There's no way Virginia Tech or Michigan belonged anywhere near the Sugar Bowl, but their names are more famous than Kansas State's, Boise State's, or Michigan State's, so we were stuck with an unfulfilling matchup of two mediocre teams. "Tradition" wins, and the fans lose.

College football has many problems, but the biases inherent in polling and bowl selection are THE biggest. Maybe if every team went into every year with an actual chance at a title, no matter how strong or how tenuous, less programs would feel the need to cheat to get ahead. And I'm not convinced a 4-team playoff will change any of this.

[infrared41]

Never mind the fact that the SOS argument is flawed beyond belief in a system where all the "name" schools spend the first month or so buying cupcake wins because they can't afford to challenge themselves against a Boise State, Baylor, Stanford, Oklahoma State, etc. who could very well beat them. Then these same schools are quick to shout "CUPCAKE SCHEDULE" when less prestigious schools are left out in the cold. The ability of power schools to refuse to play certain schools and then influence the pollsters and the bowls to pass on those same schools for scheduling reasons demonstrates how :censored:ed up the current system is, and people actually ACCEPT this!

(By the way, the lamest argument in favor of this are the SEC fans' claims that they "play an NFL-esque gauntlet" in conference play, so they're entitled to play cupcakes. Last I checked, you still have Ole Miss, Miss St., Vanderbilt, Tennessee, a suddenly-terrible Florida, and now Texas A&M.)

Bowl selection is just an extension on the same high school clique behavior that permeates the polls. There's no way Virginia Tech or Michigan belonged anywhere near the Sugar Bowl, but their names are more famous than Kansas State's, Boise State's, or Michigan State's, so we were stuck with an unfulfilling matchup of two mediocre teams. "Tradition" wins, and the fans lose.

College football has many problems, but the biases inherent in polling and bowl selection are THE biggest. Maybe if every team went into every year with an actual chance at a title, no matter how strong or how tenuous, less programs would feel the need to cheat to get ahead. And I'm not convinced a 4-team playoff will change any of this.

I agree with almost all of that. There are however a couple of spots (bolded) where I think you went off the rails a little bit.

A.) I won't even pretend to argue that "name" schools don't load up on cupcakes at the beginning of the season. That said, you'll never convince me that Boise State's conference schedule is of the same caliber that an SEC or Big Ten conference schedule is. I'm not saying "cupcake schedule" is a fair reason to shut out the "small schools" from the BCS. The SOS argument against a Boise State isn't based on overall SOS. It's based on conference schedule and that's kind of where Boise State's argument gets a little weak. It's tougher for LSU to go undefeated than it is for Boise State. I'm all for the Boise State's of the world to get a fair shot but when someone argues that Boise's SOS isn't the same as Alabama's, it's a perfectly legitimate point. Not to mention, it's not like Boise State hasn't played in it's share of BCS bowls.

B.) Fair or not, the first goal of a bowl game is to make money. Period. Other than the "title" game, bowls are just exhibition games. As such, they need to bring in teams that travel well and get TV ratings. Again, I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm only pointing out the way it is. Like it or not, fair or not, most fans would rather see Michigan or VT than they would Boise State or Kansas State. Again, it's just the way it is.

Other than that, great post.

[HedleyLamarr]

Until that day, though, while I love college football, it will always be #2 to the NFL. The current poll system makes things WAY too predictable. You can pretty much predict that an SEC school is going to win it all again this year, simply because half the conference is ranked in preseason, deserving or not, which artificially juices the whole conference's SOS. Then the disappointments take forever to drop out of the polls because ESS EEE SEE PAWWWLLLL, and the SEC gets to use their beloved strength of schedule argument.

You do realize that "strength of schedule" goes by win/loss records and not polls, right?

[ninersdd]

Serious question: is Duke losing to anybody in football shocking at all, let alone a massive upset?

[Raysfan12]

College football with a fair March Madness-style playoff would be the best sport in the American sporting world - even better than the NFL, IMHO.

Until that day, though, while I love college football, it will always be #2 to the NFL. The current poll system makes things WAY too predictable. You can pretty much predict that an SEC school is going to win it all again this year, simply because half the conference is ranked in preseason, deserving or not, which artificially juices the whole conference's SOS. Then the disappointments take forever to drop out of the polls because ESS EEE SEE PAWWWLLLL, and the SEC gets to use their beloved strength of schedule argument.

Never mind the fact that the SOS argument is flawed beyond belief in a system where all the "name" schools spend the first month or so buying cupcake wins because they can't afford to challenge themselves against a Boise State, Baylor, Stanford, Oklahoma State, etc. who could very well beat them. Then these same schools are quick to shout "CUPCAKE SCHEDULE" when less prestigious schools are left out in the cold. The ability of power schools to refuse to play certain schools and then influence the pollsters and the bowls to pass on those same schools for scheduling reasons demonstrates how :censored:ed up the current system is, and people actually ACCEPT this!

(By the way, the lamest argument in favor of this are the SEC fans' claims that they "play an NFL-esque gauntlet" in conference play, so they're entitled to play cupcakes. Last I checked, you still have Ole Miss, Miss St., Vanderbilt, Tennessee, a suddenly-terrible Florida, and now Texas A&M.)

Bowl selection is just an extension on the same high school clique behavior that permeates the polls. There's no way Virginia Tech or Michigan belonged anywhere near the Sugar Bowl, but their names are more famous than Kansas State's, Boise State's, or Michigan State's, so we were stuck with an unfulfilling matchup of two mediocre teams. "Tradition" wins, and the fans lose.

College football has many problems, but the biases inherent in polling and bowl selection are THE biggest. Maybe if every team went into every year with an actual chance at a title, no matter how strong or how tenuous, less programs would feel the need to cheat to get ahead. And I'm not convinced a 4-team playoff will change any of this.

Great post Lights! I was thinking the same thing but I wanted to add perception as a problem with college football. You see teams like ND and Auburn in the polls over more deserving teams like Washington and Louisville (Using this years preseason poll as an example). And that leads me to my next issue; the preseason and coaches poll. My issue with preseason poll is that nobody hasn't played yet and still they rank teams based on preconceptions and hype. They should start ranking after week 1 so it will be more fair. I dislike the coaches poll because they don't watch the games and again, use preconceptions. I feel that the coaches should be focused on their team rather than filling out the poll and should leave the rankings to the fans and experts, who actually watches the games.