Augusta National admits first two female members

[njmeadowlanders]

I don't see why they wouldn't want to...

Who knows? That's not the issue though. Their club, their rules. They shouldn't HAVE to if they don't want to. And yes, I agree they're stupid for not wanting to previously, but I defend the fact that it's their prerogative. Legally, I just don't see how it would be any different than say, a Curves gym where only women can be members to work out. It just so happens they're a high-profile club that hosts a prestigious golf tournament.

So, by your logic, private businesses can just keep out who they want?

Furthermore, Augusta National is more than just a private business. It's the most prestigious course in America, maybe the world. The pantheon of golf should not tell half of society "You're not welcome because of the way you were born". It sets a horrible precedent.

Sure. It just hurts your business in most cases because you automatically slash your potential client/customer base in half (obviously this wasn't the case with Augusta as there is a humongous line of people who would flock to get in). Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should though. They're not the same thing.

And if the PGA didn't like Augusta's policies, they could have said adios too. If a sponsor disagreed, they could have stopped sponsoring.

My only real point is that there is nothing wrong at all with Men's Clubs and Women's Clubs. That's not discrimination. I think it's great that Augusta has admitted women, but I still never think they should have HAD to had they not wanted to. It should also be noted that they CHOSE this and were not FORCED into it.

[JQK]

But you can have a gentlemen's only club without it being discriminatory...

I could ask for admittance into the NAACP, but i'm not gonna get in...

[RedSox44]

But you can have a gentlemen's only club without it being discriminatory...

I could ask for admittance into the NAACP, but i'm not gonna get in...

Well, a lot of gentlemen's clubs have "ladies nights" with male strippers and the like (unless I'm completely misunderstand your use of "gentlemen's only club").

Sure you could. The NAACP accepts all people willing to fight for racial equality. Hell, I read somewhere a few years ago that the Houston NAACP was ~55% white.

[njmeadowlanders]

How is it discriminating? By that reasoning, i'm being discriminated against when a high-end restaurant refuses me entry because i'm wearing jeans and a hoodie...

Not at all.

The difference is you have A CHOICE with what you wear. You could have CHOSEN to wear a nice suit to the restaurant.

Women and African-Americans do not have a choice about the way they were born.

So what if it's a bar that charges a cover charge but has a "ladies get in free" promotion or something? Is that OK even though Men didn't choose the way they were born?

As long as it's not a public entity I don't have a problem with men-only or women-only clubs/offers/promotions/etc.

[Don]

But you can have a gentlemen's only club without it being discriminatory...

I could ask for admittance into the NAACP, but i'm not gonna get in...

NAACP was started by white people in response to lynching dude. There are white members of the NAACP.

[RedSox44]

How is it discriminating? By that reasoning, i'm being discriminated against when a high-end restaurant refuses me entry because i'm wearing jeans and a hoodie...

Not at all.

The difference is you have A CHOICE with what you wear. You could have CHOSEN to wear a nice suit to the restaurant.

Women and African-Americans do not have a choice about the way they were born.

So what if it's a bar that charges a cover charge but has a "ladies get in free" promotion or something? Is that OK even though Men didn't choose the way they were born?

As long as it's not a public entity I don't have a problem with men-only or women-only clubs/offers/promotions/etc.

Yes, that's fine, because they're not turning male customers away from the door. It's not discriminatory because they can still get in and enjoy all the amenities of the club.

Also, why are you capitalizing "men"?

[njmeadowlanders]

How is it discriminating? By that reasoning, i'm being discriminated against when a high-end restaurant refuses me entry because i'm wearing jeans and a hoodie...

Not at all.

The difference is you have A CHOICE with what you wear. You could have CHOSEN to wear a nice suit to the restaurant.

Women and African-Americans do not have a choice about the way they were born.

So what if it's a bar that charges a cover charge but has a "ladies get in free" promotion or something? Is that OK even though Men didn't choose the way they were born?

As long as it's not a public entity I don't have a problem with men-only or women-only clubs/offers/promotions/etc.

Yes, that's fine, because they're not turning male customers away from the door. It's not discriminatory because they can still get in and enjoy all the amenities of the club.

Also, why are you capitalizing "men"?

Because that's a mistake and shouldn't be.

OK then, so how is Curves Gym OK? Men cannot be members.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

I have no problem with private clubs. Clubs/restaurants/shopping malls/stores/schools can be and are discriminatory. It's their right.

It's the public's right to not like their practices and to work to overturn them.

Anyone has the right to be an ass. Everyone else has the right to tell them that's what they're wrong.

[CDixonDesign]

I don't have a problem with them being an all male private club. I honestly could care less...

But you can't tell me that admitting a billionaire and former Sec. of State had anything to do with their golf game. This was a very calculated move for publicity, IMO.

[njmeadowlanders]

I don't have a problem with them being an all male private club. I honestly could care less...

But you can't tell me that admitting a billionaire and former Sec. of State had anything to do with their golf game. This was a very calculated move for publicity, IMO.

Of course it was--but that was their CHOICE. Nobody made them do it.

[JQK]

I have no problem with private clubs. Clubs/restaurants/shopping malls/stores/schools can be and are discriminatory. It's their right.

It's the public's right to not like their practices and to work to overturn them.

Anyone has the right to be an ass. Everyone else has the right to tell them that's what they're wrong.

So you have no problem with private clubs, but you hate private clubs.

Logic.

[pmoehrin]

I have no problem with private clubs. Clubs/restaurants/shopping malls/stores/schools can be and are discriminatory. It's their right.

It's the public's right to not like their practices and to work to overturn them.

Anyone has the right to be an ass. Everyone else has the right to tell them that's what they're wrong.

So you have no problem with private clubs, but you hate private clubs.

Logic.

I get what he's saying.

Just because you have the right to do something, doesn't grant you immunity from criticism.

I would defend Augusta National's stance to bar women from their club for as long as they did if I thought their right to do so was being threatened, or if they weren't in a good position to defend themselves either legally or in a court of public opinion. But the government wasn't going after them, and they're big boys who can certainly handle themselves in matters of public relations. They were simply being criticized for taking that stance, and morally I didn't agree with what Augusta National was doing.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

I have no problem with private clubs. Clubs/restaurants/shopping malls/stores/schools can be and are discriminatory. It's their right.

It's the public's right to not like their practices and to work to overturn them.

Anyone has the right to be an ass. Everyone else has the right to tell them that's what they're wrong.

So you have no problem with private clubs, but you hate private clubs.

Logic.

Tell me where I said I hate private clubs?

[-kj]

I have no problem with private clubs. Clubs/restaurants/shopping malls/stores/schools can be and are discriminatory. It's their right.

It's the public's right to not like their practices and to work to overturn them.

Anyone has the right to be an ass. Everyone else has the right to tell them that's what they're wrong.

So you have no problem with private clubs, but you hate private clubs.

Logic.

It's much like me saying that Chick-Fil-A has every legal right to continue to donate money to horrific anti-gay organizations, and the owner has every right to say whatever he wants. That doesn't mean I have to like it, give them money, or keep my mouth shut about how terrible I think they are.

[bosrs1]

Nobody ever responded to the Curves comment. Why is it ok for a large corporation like Curves to discriminate against men?

[pmoehrin]

Nobody ever responded to the Curves comment. Why is it ok for a large corporation like Curves to discriminate against men?

Because you got about 20 other gyms you can go to and the reason its female only is to the provide a counter product to regular gyms of which the majority of members are guys.

Whether or not its right is something that can be debated, but its not something I care a great deal about, and I don't think its harming society.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Nobody ever responded to the Curves comment. Why is it ok for a large corporation like Curves to discriminate against men?

Because it being women-only is a key selling point to a specific audience. I guess I don't understand the question.

[OnWis97]

Nobody ever responded to the Curves comment. Why is it ok for a large corporation like Curves to discriminate against men?

Because it being women-only is a key selling point to a specific audience. I guess I don't understand the question.

I understand the question. I am OK with Curves because many women feel uncomfortable at mixed workout facilities. I visited a large club that had a women's room once for that reason. My wife totally feels that way at some gyms.

So unless someone is saying "Augusta's policy should be illegal", it is reasonable to be OK with Curves. I am "not" OK with Augusta (of old, anyway) because I just think it's silly. I did not want them to change it because I did not care or think it should be illegal. I not not totally happy about America's second-favorite sporting event being held there (though I don't care about golf), but did not think that needed to be illegal either.

[njmeadowlanders]

Nobody ever responded to the Curves comment. Why is it ok for a large corporation like Curves to discriminate against men?

Because you got about 20 other gyms you can go to and the reason its female only is to the provide a counter product to regular gyms of which the majority of members are guys.

Whether or not its right is something that can be debated, but its not something I care a great deal about, and I don't think its harming society.

You can golf at other places other than Augusta too. Maybe the fact that Augusta was a "boys club" was one of their "selling points". I use quotes there because obviously if that were the case it'd be very very minor compared to "having an aircraft carrier full of money" the main one.

[pmoehrin]

Nobody ever responded to the Curves comment. Why is it ok for a large corporation like Curves to discriminate against men?

Because you got about 20 other gyms you can go to and the reason its female only is to the provide a counter product to regular gyms of which the majority of members are guys.

Whether or not its right is something that can be debated, but its not something I care a great deal about, and I don't think its harming society.

You can golf at other places other than Augusta too. Maybe the fact that Augusta was a "boys club" was one of their "selling points". I use quotes there because obviously if that were the case it'd be very very minor compared to "having an aircraft carrier full of money" the main one.

Yeah but how many of those places can compare to the quality and prestige of Augusta? It could be argued none. They present a unique product of which there is no real substitue for.

People don't care about some local private club because those can be a dime a dozen. Augusta is not. That's why they get treated differently.