Ferdinand Cesarano

a very welcome detail on Giants' patch

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Any significance in the time being 8:40 on the clock?

Not that I'd know how to look it up, but is it possible that's what time the clinching game ended? Pacific time, of course

About 8:40.

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Well OP, there are a lot of peple who think like that on the internet. If not about sports, then about the meaning of literallaly, could care less, and worst of all ironic.

"He's the best player in the MLB" makes so much more gramatical sense than "He's the best player in MLB." The league (singular) is already not allowed.

As someone said, things change. I wonder what William Shakespeare would think of the way we speak today in the most formal situations.

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In that situation, wouldn't you be more likely to say "He's the best player in the Majors"?

I do find the outrage against "MLB" to be completely silly; the term "kiddie-speak" is even funnier.

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In that situation, wouldn't you be more likely to say "He's the best player in the Majors"?

The best way to say it is "he's the best player in baseball".

I do find the outrage against "MLB" to be completely silly; the term "kiddie-speak" is even funnier.

It's not quite outrage. Outrage is the sense that I feel about pajama pants and about the lack of stirrups; this doesn't rise to that. The use of kiddie-speak is better characterised as an annoyance.

Furthermore, "kiddie-speak" is a completely accurate way of describing the ahistorical verbal behaviour of people who are too young to know better (and who don't care to learn).

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I agree 1000% that "The MLB" or verbally referring to MLB as "MLB" just doesn't sound right.

"He's the best player in baseball," or "he's the best player in the majors" sounds so much better, and makes more sense, than "He's the best player in the MLB" or "He's the best player in MLB." Hands down, 100%. This kid on one of the radio shows I used to produce would say "the MLB" all the time, and it drove me absolutely crazy. I notice it more with people who are just sports fans in general, that follow baseball, but don't consider it their favorite sport. I've never really heard a die-hard baseball fan who more passionate about the game than any other sport refer to "the MLB" like that.

As for World Champions vs World Series Champions, idk. World Series Champions doesn't bother me as much as it seems to bother others, but I get it. I typically say World Champions, myself. But it's never been a big deal to me.

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In that situation, wouldn't you be more likely to say "He's the best player in the Majors"?

The best way to say it is "he's the best player in baseball".

I do find the outrage against "MLB" to be completely silly; the term "kiddie-speak" is even funnier.

It's not quite outrage. Outrage is the sense that I feel about pajama pants and about the lack of stirrups; this doesn't rise to that. The use of kiddie-speak is better characterised as an annoyance.

Furthermore, "kiddie-speak" is a completely accurate way of describing the ahistorical verbal behaviour of people who are too young to know better (and who don't care to learn).

The "kiddie-speak" line is silly because, well, we're not kids anymore ;)

I was born in 1987, and I can remember the name "MLB" being used prior to the year 2000. So if I take you at your word and assume that "MLB" wasn't widely used before the late 90s/early 2000s it stands to reason that my generation was the first to really use it en mass. Well I'm twenty-five, out of university, and looking for my first job. In five years I'll be thirty and hopefully settled into my career. If we accept your initial assessment regarding widespread use of the term "MLB" then I have to say, you need to get over it. The generation you want to pin this "kiddie speak" on is quickly reaching adulthood, if we're not there already. Sorry, but "kiddie-speak" makes you sound like someone who simply can't accept that the lexicon's changed over time. As it tends to do.

The term "Major League Baseball"....was never intended to be the name of any league; it was the name of the association between two formerly independent leagues.

Again, things change. Major League Baseball may not have been intended as the name of a single league, but that's what it has become. The AL and NL no longer have separate offices. Umpires in the two leagues are no longer distinguished by different uniforms. They all wear the Major League Baseball umpire uniform. The AL and NL stopped being "separate leagues in a joint affiliation" decades ago. Now the AL and NL are no different from the NHL's Eastern and Western Conferences or the NFL's NFC and AFC.

Major League Baseball is, in the year 2012, a single league much like the NHL or NBA. So if they can use abbreviations so can Major League Baseball. MLB fits. You don't have to use it, but I suggest that you stop letting it annoy you. It's not going anywhere, and you'll be a lot happier.

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I'm still not clear how using initials like "MLB" or "NFL" is somehow dumbing down the language or "kiddie speak".

When you get in your car (perhaps a Bavarian Motor Works model), do you turn on the Frequency Modulation radio, maybe listen to a little Rhythm and Blues? Initialisms are quite common in the English language; I don't see what's objectionable about this particular one.

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Any significance in the time being 8:40 on the clock?

Not that I'd know how to look it up, but is it possible that's what time the clinching game ended? Pacific time, of course

First pitch of game 4 was 8:16 ET, or 5:16 PT. Time of game was 3:34. Time of clinch was 8:50 PT.

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This reminds me of when WWE (World Wrestling Entertainment) was once known as WWF (World Wrestling Federation), guys like Bret Hart would say he's the best in the World Wrestling Federation and Stone Cold would say he's going to kick ass and take names in the WWF, it made sense, but then they changed their name in 2002 to WWE and people say "the WWE" but it NEVER made sense. Nobody ever says "The World Wrestling Entertainment."

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^No one really says "World Wrestling Entertainment" with or without the....

Just go back to WWWF

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That would mean eliminating their overseas operation. Which, frankly, would be fine with me. Less money for Linda to blow on a third Senate attempt.

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The OP has brought this up before. I remember because nobody else would use the phrase "kiddie-speak". Sorta like that one poster who obtusely insists that teams should get their championship trophies in the locker room because that's the way they used to do it.

Sparky Anderson used to always say "World's Champions". Nobody's brought up that one :upside:

It's interesting to me that this could be an annoyance to someone. I was a child of the 90's and a huge baseball fan. We said "emm ell bee" back then so it's not as new a development as the OP thinks. We also said "he's the best player in baseball" or "they have the most stolen bases in the majors". I still use those terms when talking about the game. They aren't going away.

When a team wins the World Series, they are the World Series champions. I don't understand the commotion of calling them that versus using World Champions. Both are factually correct, both are fine and you still both in print and graphics.

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This reminds me of when WWE (World Wrestling Entertainment) was once known as WWF (World Wrestling Federation), guys like Bret Hart would say he's the best in the World Wrestling Federation and Stone Cold would say he's going to kick ass and take names in the WWF, it made sense, but then they changed their name in 2002 to WWE and people say "the WWE" but it NEVER made sense. Nobody ever says "The World Wrestling Entertainment."

That's another great example.

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MLB/Major League Baseball seemed to widely come in to use with the birth of Interleague play in '97

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I'm still not clear how using initials like "MLB" or "NFL" is somehow dumbing down the language or "kiddie speak".

When you get in your car (perhaps a Bavarian Motor Works model), do you turn on the Frequency Modulation radio, maybe listen to a little Rhythm and Blues? Initialisms are quite common in the English language; I don't see what's objectionable about this particular one.

Obviously, there is nothing inherently objectionable about initialisms! As I mentioned earlier, all of those other initialisms to which you allude are longstanding and established. Whereas, saying the initials "MLB" rather than "(Major League) Baseball" is a very new phenomenon. For that reason alone it grates on the ears.

I was a child of the 90's and a huge baseball fan. We said "emm ell bee" back then so it's not as new a development as the OP thinks.

I had placed its emergence in the first decade of the 2000s. But I am sure you're right that it began a few years earlier, in the 1990s. Either way, that still makes it a very new phenomenon, historically speaking.

The "kiddie-speak" line is silly because, well, we're not kids anymore ;)

I was born in 1987...

Golly, that long ago?! Well, then...

...and I can remember the name "MLB" being used prior to the year 2000. So if I take you at your word and assume that "MLB" wasn't widely used before the late 90s/early 2000s it stands to reason that my generation was the first to really use it en mass[e].

Yes; I am sure that I placed its emergence a little bit too late. Late 1990s would seem to be the correct date.

The term "Major League Baseball"....was never intended to be the name of any league; it was the name of the association between two formerly independent leagues.

Again, things change. Major League Baseball may not have been intended as the name of a single league, but that's what it has become. The AL and NL no longer have separate offices. Umpires in the two leagues are no longer distinguished by different uniforms. They all wear the Major League Baseball umpire uniform.

Correct. Which is why I said "formerly independent leagues".

The AL and NL stopped being "separate leagues in a joint affiliation" decades ago.

Actually, just a bit more than one decade ago, in 2000. (In other words: very recently.)

Now the AL and NL are no different from the NHL's Eastern and Western Conferences or the NFL's NFC and AFC.

Major League Baseball is, in the year 2012, a single league much like the NHL or NBA.

Entirely true, but beside my point on "em el bee". I am making no complaints about the name "Major League Baseball". I made a bit of a side point about the names of MLS and the MLL, noting that the name "Major League Baseball" as the name of one league (rather than the name of the association of two leagues) is a historical accident. Clearly, this name is rather odd linguistically: it names a league, but it uses the noun "league" as an adjective. Nevertheless, the name "Major League Baseball" exists for a valid historical reason.

On the other hand, the names "Major League Soccer" and "Major League Lacrosse" exist for no good historical reason; they were simply copied from the name "Major League Baseball".

It's not going anywhere

You are correct that "em el bee" is not going anywhere. As I stated in the original post, kiddie-speak is rampant and is here to stay. Indeed, it is for this very reason that the Giants' patch stands out as remarkable and praiseworthy -- because it's an exception to the general trend.

MLB/Major League Baseball seemed to widely come in to use with the birth of Interleague play in '97

You make a good point in asserting that the introduction of interleague play is probably the starting point for the widespread use of "em el bee". (Incidentally, that also marked my retirement as a fan of current-day baseball; I became strictly a historical fan at that point.)

Let me once again be clear that, with respect to "MLB", what I am labelling "kiddie-speak" is not the full term "Major League Baseball", which has been in widespread use for more than a century, but the prounciation "em el bee", which was introduced only very recently. In other words: the pronunciation of the abbreviation "MLB" is "Major League Baseball".

Here is a good comparison: someone seeing the abbreviation "NY" will pronounce it as "New York" -- never as "en why". Some intialisms are not meant to be read as a sequence of letters.

Whereas, someone seeing the initialism "LA" will pronounce it as "el ay". Some initialisms are frequently said as a sequence of letters.

The abbreviation "MLB" is in the class of "NY": it is an initialism that is to be pronouced as the full words. It is not in the class of "LA", an initialism that is to be pronounced as a series of letters.

I'm sure that, if the next round of kiddie-speak were to introduce the pronuncation "en why" for "NY", this would sound just as wrong to many people as "em el bee" sounds to me.

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It could be argued that the at least half the Japanese league could play in the MLB. Japan has won both WBC's, and most of their players do not even play in MLB

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The "kiddie-speak" line is silly because, well, we're not kids anymore ;)

I was born in 1987...

Golly, that long ago?! Well, then...

Nice.

Fact is the generation you want to pin this "kiddie-speak" nonsense on is quickly reaching adulthood. Your hilariously condescending complaints just come off as an the whinings of an old man who can't accept that the world has changed. And in this case the change you're stuck up on is very minor. Even for these parts.

I'm still not clear how using initials like "MLB" or "NFL" is somehow dumbing down the language or "kiddie speak".

When you get in your car (perhaps a Bavarian Motor Works model), do you turn on the Frequency Modulation radio, maybe listen to a little Rhythm and Blues? Initialisms are quite common in the English language; I don't see what's objectionable about this particular one.

Obviously, there is nothing inherently objectionable about initialisms! As I mentioned earlier, all of those other initialisms to which you allude are longstanding and established. Whereas, saying the initials "MLB" rather than "(Major League) Baseball" is a very new phenomenon. For that reason alone it grates on the ears.

So in other words you don't like the intialism MLB because it's not something you grew up with. That's all.

Glad we cleared it up.

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Seriously, this person born in 1975 gets a clear "you kids get off my lawn" vibe from the term "kiddie speak".

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I was born in 1981 and when I was little, M-L-B sounded awkward. It just didn't sound right as NHL, NBA and NFL did. But now, it sounds fine. And it's not kiddie speak. It's just common now. Much as it was awkward to same the team name at the other team name, for instance Cardinals at the Braves. It felt more natural to say St. Louis at Atlanta. Now, it sounds fine.

Keep in mind, the OP is the same guy who thinks "dated" is a made-up word or kiddie speak and not a legitimate term to describe a team's look. Basically, he's right and we're all wrong.

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Here is a good comparison: someone seeing the abbreviation "NY" will pronounce it as "New York" -- never as "en why". Some intialisms are not meant to be read as a sequence of letters.

Bad comparison, since the same people presented with "NYC" may indeed pronounce it as "en why see". And nobody would with a straight face suggest that "NYPD" must be spelled out rather than pronounced as "en why pee dee".

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