NHL Expansion?

[Generic]

Expansion? Are they insane?

[IceCap]

Expansion? Are they insane?

Yes.

[kw11333]

I'm new to hockey branding discussions but I think a red Toronto team would contrast beautifully with the Leafs. The only challenge would be to keep it from encroaching too much on the Blackhawks or Red Wings identities.

As for the overall expansion idea, that may eventually find itself intertwined with the new Seattle arena deal since they are supposedly trying to woo an NHL franchise to the Emerald City.

Lot's of reports the Coyotes will end up in Seattle.

I know people in eastern Canada will complain, but they will have a new arena ready the fastest, and contrary against most popular beliefs in Eastern Canada, Seattle IS a traditional hockey market. They have had constant forms of pro and minor league hockey since the 1910's. That pre dates teams in: Calgary, Edmonton Winnipeg, and Saskatoon. Not to mention Seattle has a solid core of Canucks fans.

Next team to move (after the yotes) will prob be Florida. I also think the NHL will give Columbus another 10 years with that team at least.

[raysfan24]

I'm new to hockey branding discussions but I think a red Toronto team would contrast beautifully with the Leafs. The only challenge would be to keep it from encroaching too much on the Blackhawks or Red Wings identities.

As for the overall expansion idea, that may eventually find itself intertwined with the new Seattle arena deal since they are supposedly trying to woo an NHL franchise to the Emerald City.

Lot's of reports the Coyotes will end up in Seattle.

I know people in eastern Canada will complain, but they will have a new arena ready the fastest, and contrary against most popular beliefs in Eastern Canada, Seattle IS a traditional hockey market. They have had constant forms of pro and minor league hockey since the 1910's. That pre dates teams in: Calgary, Edmonton Winnipeg, and Saskatoon. Not to mention Seattle has a solid core of Canucks fans.

Next team to move (after the yotes) will prob be Florida. I also think the NHL will give Columbus another 10 years with that team at least.

The whole point of the All-Star game in Columbus was to "save" the franchise in my mind. I want them to stay because I'm a fan, but at the same time scared because crazy stuff can happen.

[IceCap]

How in the entire HELL is a second Toronto team preferable to a team in Hamilton?

Welcome to the idiocy that is the NHL.

I mean Hamilton's got arena problems, and a second team in southern Ontario, wherever you put it, isn't ideal. Still, if you're going to go through with it I would think a team in Hamilton with a new or renovated rink is preferable to a second team in the Leafs' base of operations.

[ShlyKBMT]

Purely for myself I wish the NHL would expand to Houston. Just an hour away from me. Aeros games are fun and I hate pulling for a Dallas team with no NHL here.

[JayMac]

Vegas should have relocation odds on some of these franchises. The Coyotes would be even or 1-2. Who would be next in line and what would their odds be?

[vman]

From a financial standpoint, there are more than enough viable markets in Canada to make this expansion a reality (Quebec, Halifax, Greater Toronto Area). Unlike a lot of people, I don't think the talent pool is too thin for this. With the increased attention to reducing dangerous hits and fighting, the make-up of the NHL game will require less third and fourth line bruisers and more skill players. There are plenty of guys playing in the KHL, AHL and other top Euro leagues who are superior to many current bottom 6 NHLers talent wise. The talent is definitely there, and it would in fact increase the quality of actual hockey on the ice. The financially frail US teams can move to places like Seattle, Kansas City, Las Vegas and other cities looking for an anchor tenant when Bettman finally clues in and admits his stupidity.

People can whine all they want, but Toronto is still the safest bet for a successful team. The population in the area guarantees constant sell-outs. Hamilton is too small population wise, is stuck between two long standing franchises less than an hour and a half away (therefore requiring to pay both restitution payments for territorial encroachment), and barely supports their usually competitive AHL team. Will the Toronto team play second fiddle? Of course it will, just like a whole host of teams in every pro league that are all but forgotten about by everyone except the locals, but that still doesn't mean they wont fill the seats.

As for the team identity, I don't want another rehash of an old Toronto team (Arenas, Toros, etc). The whole retro fad has become tiresome. It shouldn't be too hard to come up with something new, fresh, modern and marketable. As far as a colour scheme is concerned, I'd prefer using the traditional Toronto double blue, but if they can come up with something unique and different like the Raptors did, I'd be fine with that too (just no purple please).

[Cosmic]

How in the entire HELL is a second Toronto team preferable to a team in Hamilton?

That said, if this absolutely MUST go through, as someone who is descended from Irish-Ontarians, sign me up for Toronto Celtics.

Hamilton is in the Sabres' territory, Markham isn't.

[Bayne]

Move Phoenix and Florida north and you're onto a winner.

[kw11333]

There is enough general interest in hockey for a 2nd team in Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver to work, but hockey fans are some of the most loyal in all of sport. I don't see people just abandoning the Leafs.

For instance, despite 7 cups between the Devils and Islanders, the Rangers still dominate that market place.

[wildwing64]

People can whine all they want, but Toronto is still the safest bet for a successful team. The population in the area guarantees constant sell-outs

Who is whining? The idea of a second team in Toronto looks fantastic on paper, but logically speaking it probably won't be a massive overnight success. Yes, the Toronto area does have a large population - of Leafs fans. You can't just plunk a second team in Toronto and expect many people to shift their loyalty from the Toronto-freaking-Maple Leafs. I'm not opposed to having a second team there but with the Leafs being so heavily engraved in Toronto's culture for almost a hundred years, I'm not even sure how or if this will work out.

As for names, if this team is being placed in Markham you could call them the Dragons for its nickname of the Dragon City. Or the Stallions with the Canadian Horse being a national symbol. That's about all I can think of as I don't know the history of the area too well.

[pcgd]

Maybe I don't understand hockey/Canada enough but I just don't understand how a second team in an established (hell, Original 6) market would do well at all.

Its like a second football team in Chicago which was half-heartedly proposed during the 2016 olympic bid. Sure there is enough population, they have 2 baseball teams, and I mean they support the Bears even when they suck right? But I can't imagine any Bear fans switching to an upstart team. I guess if they were in the AFC you'd have some fans say they were fans of both but I just can't see the new team being anything but a novelty in Chicago.

Am I missing something? Or would the novelty and ability to go to double the games be enough for a team to be a financial success?

[Bayne]

It would take forever for a second team in Toronto to establish itself. I could see this working in a city with a team that's only been around 25 years or less, but Toronto? Sheeshhh....tall order.

[Foxxtrot44]

I completely agree with you. I think MLB would be a great option for the SLC. I could see a new ballpark built somewhere around the Gateway and Rio Grande station. I've secretly wished someone would move the A's out here if San Jose doesn't work for them. Heck even Tampa Bay or an expansion team would be great!

You seem to have a lot of secret relocation wishes. I hate to burst one of your theoretical bubbles, but there wont be a development of the size needed for a pro sports team in the "Greektown" area. There's too little room and too many businesses that have no desire to move...oh, and the transit hub and homeless shelter. In the case of both sports, they would be best served to rebuild the footprints they already have. The current stadia are already in desirable locations near restaurants, parking lots, and train stops...no development needed!

In terms of capacity, Maverik Center (which honestly should be a minor palace for fans of Canadian national hockey) probably only needs to add 5,000 seats, making it the 24th largest NHL arena. That would be plenty big for SLC/West Valley. Spring Mobile Ballpark, on the other hand, would probably need to double in size, but it has space to do so.

[youcan'tseeme]

Maybe I don't understand hockey/Canada enough but I just don't understand how a second team in an established (hell, Original 6) market would do well at all.

Its like a second football team in Chicago which was half-heartedly proposed during the 2016 olympic bid. Sure there is enough population, they have 2 baseball teams, and I mean they support the Bears even when they suck right? But I can't imagine any Bear fans switching to an upstart team. I guess if they were in the AFC you'd have some fans say they were fans of both but I just can't see the new team being anything but a novelty in Chicago.

Am I missing something? Or would the novelty and ability to go to double the games be enough for a team to be a financial success?

It would take forever for a second team in Toronto to establish itself. I could see this working in a city with a team that's only been around 25 years or less, but Toronto? Sheeshhh....tall order.

The whole thing is people would go even if they were Leafs fans. The amount of people where I live (3 hours from the border) that drive down to Buffalo for the Sabres is insane. We do it not because we don't love the Leafs, but because we can afford it. A Markham team would get fans easy, because there's just as many people around here who hate the Leafs as love them. People would fill the seats every night just because it's the NHL. The only issue I could see is if the team were to end up like Columbus.

Even still people would pay to see there other favourite teams and players come through town.

[Mac the Knife]

1. Let Basille have the Coyotes and move them to Hamilton.

2. Expand to Quebec City and Houston to even things out at 8 divisions of 4 teams each.

3. Profit.

[njmeadowlanders]

Vegas should have relocation odds on some of these franchises. The Coyotes would be even or 1-2. Who would be next in line and what would their odds be?

Do the Islanders count?

[Gothamite]

Hard to collect on odds of 1:1.

[The_Admiral]

I'm having trouble with the idea going around that Seattle should get the Coyotes while Quebec City should get an expansion team because Seattle needs a cheap team on a platter while Quebec City can pay out the ass to eat crap with a spoon, and should for the greater good. Seattle doesn't have an arena for hockey, it hasn't started construction on one, it won't be an anchor tenant, and it doesn't have a national television channel. It's not that great a situation. They can wait a few years.