Submitting a Design

[jeh-see]

If a layman, as myself, designs a logo for a specific sports franchise and wants to submit it to the club, how would I go about doing so? Where, exactly, is it supposed to be sent (ie: marketing, etc)? What are some safeguards I should go about to ensure the work isn't stolen by the club and used without credit or compensation? Any info or tips that you guys, professional or otherwise, could pass along would be greatly appreciated. I am only asking this because I am seriously considering doing up some designs for the Pittsburgh Pirates rumored logo update for next season (2014) and wanted them to be taken seriously and get into the right hands within the organization to be considered. Thanks guys.

UniJ

[Sec19Row53]

I believe the correct answer is, you can't. Since the Ravens' logo fiasco, teams won't accept or even open logo concepts.

[hugevolsfan]

Yeah my experience with the Houston Texans was just that see my thread below for example.

[jeh-see]

Damn it! I had some awesome ideas, too.

UniJ

[lettercult]

each team is a separate entity and would have their own policy on this ... at the very least,

contact Pirates marketing.

I wouldn't give up because someone on a forum said to.

[slapshot]

It's not a matter of "not doing it because the message board said so". It becomes a matter of determining who owns the intellectual property of the artwork. There wouldn't be anything stopping a team from taking a fan's artwork, modifying one tiny piece of it (maybe a font or something), then saying it was designed in-house, thus no longer having to pay the original artist. An identity like this would normally cost in the tens of thousands of dollars, and the artist wouldn't receive any of it.

I believe that's what happened with the Ravens. So they changed the shield helmet logo to the bird's head.

[lettercult]

actually nevermind ... not worth arguing.

[JPDesign]

This is just my personal feeling on the matter: I think redesigning an established brand for a personal exercise is a great way to create a portfolio piece. But that's really all it should be. What if one day you walked in to a burger joint and said, "I know how to make your burger better! The one you have now is okay, but this will make it awesome!" I don't think they would take very kindly to that. Just my two cents.

[jeh-see]

This is just my personal feeling on the matter: I think redesigning an established brand for a personal exercise is a great way to create a portfolio piece. But that's really all it should be. What if one day you walked in to a burger joint and said, "I know how to make your burger better! The one you have now is okay, but this will make it awesome!" I don't think they would take very kindly to that. Just my two cents.

Oh no, I think you misunderstood. They are already re-designing their logo(s), http://news.sportslogos.net/2013/02/13/pittsburgh-pirates-to-have-new-logo-in-2014/ I just wanted to give them my ideas, that's all.

[Davidson]

This is just my personal feeling on the matter: I think redesigning an established brand for a personal exercise is a great way to create a portfolio piece. But that's really all it should be. What if one day you walked in to a burger joint and said, "I know how to make your burger better! The one you have now is okay, but this will make it awesome!" I don't think they would take very kindly to that. Just my two cents.

Oh no, I think you misunderstood. They are already re-designing their logo(s), http://news.sportslo...w-logo-in-2014/ I just wanted to give them my ideas, that's all.

The person actually doing the designing will never receive your ideas. To an extent for the reasons above. Primarily because organisations tend not to go to designers and give them ideas. The ideas come from the designers and are effectively pitched to the franchise.

The other reason people dont sound out members of the public is that (and your ideas may be perfectly good) the public generally have terrible ideas. Having created several hundred logos for non designers recently, I can tell you that if your pitch contains any of the following words or phrases, designers aren't going to be interested.

- State Flag

- City Skyline

- State Outline

- 'Cartoon look'

- Strutting (insert animal without feet ie fish)

- (insert animal without teeth) baring its teeth.

etc etc.

[Rambulance]

And correct me if I'm wrong, but if they are announcing a change, chances are they've already been through the first several rounds of artist concepts.

[hettinger_rl]

I would say though, that colleges and minor leagues do have "fan submission" design contests every now and then. Its hard to say if these are ever taken seriously or just used as a publicity stunt, however I know some actually use submetted designs.

SDSU's new jackrabbit was going to be designed by Phoenix Design Works, but their preliminaries were leaked on campus and a wave of outrage swept the campus. The school decided to open the design up to contest and the winners (one for the rabbit and primary wordmark & one for the secondary wordmark) ended up giving their $1500 back to the school.

[jeh-see]

And correct me if I'm wrong, but if they are announcing a change, chances are they've already been through the first several rounds of artist concepts.

I never thought about that, and you are probably very correct in saying so. Thanks for all the tips and advice, guys. I am just glad I asked these questions before going into a big personal project for nothing. As a huge Buccos fan, I really hope they come up with something traditional, yet very nice.

UniJ

[andrewharrington]

The other reason people dont sound out members of the public is that (and your ideas may be perfectly good) the public generally have terrible ideas. Having created several hundred logos for non designers recently, I can tell you that if your pitch contains any of the following words or phrases, designers aren't going to be interested.

- State Flag

- City Skyline

- State Outline

- 'Cartoon look'

- Strutting (insert animal without feet ie fish)

- (insert animal without teeth) baring its teeth.

etc etc.

I wouldn't go that far. Of course, "the public" is often the source of a staggering amount of awful ideas, but art/creative directors, marketers and designers are the source of just as many. Conversely, there are great ideas that come from the public as well, just as great ideas sometimes come from design and marketing teams. Furthermore, state flags, state outlines, skylines, cartoons and otherwise fun depictions of fauna can make perfectly decent, good or even great logos. Not everything has to be a wispy, gestural vector of a dignified, serious-looking creature. If it's well done, it's well done, regardless of the concept or artistic approach.

Simply practicing the profession or labeling oneself a "designer" doesn't inherently evevate one's viewpoint or collection of ideas above the public's.

[hugevolsfan]

The other reason people dont sound out members of the public is that (and your ideas may be perfectly good) the public generally have terrible ideas. Having created several hundred logos for non designers recently, I can tell you that if your pitch contains any of the following words or phrases, designers aren't going to be interested.

- State Flag

- City Skyline

- State Outline

- 'Cartoon look'

- Strutting (insert animal without feet ie fish)

- (insert animal without teeth) baring its teeth.

etc etc.

I wouldn't go that far. Of course, "the public" is often the source of a staggering amount of awful ideas, but art/creative directors, marketers and designers are the source of just as many. Conversely, there are great ideas that come from the public as well, just as great ideas sometimes come from design and marketing teams. Furthermore, state flags, state outlines, skylines, cartoons and otherwise fun depictions of fauna can make perfectly decent, good or even great logos. Not everything has to be a wispy, gestural vector of a dignified, serious-looking creature. If it's well done, it's well done, regardless of the concept or artistic approach.

Simply practicing the profession or labeling oneself a "designer" doesn't inherently evevate one's viewpoint or collection of ideas above the public's.

gotta agree with you Andrew here very good points but I do realize what Davidson is saying about the general public.

[Davidson]

Simply practicing the profession or labeling oneself a "designer" doesn't inherently evevate one's viewpoint or collection of ideas above the public's.

Well it does to the extent that 'designers' are the ones making the more of the decisions when it comes to the logos the guy is talking about. As we have discussed, its rare that teams solicit the ideas of the public. Obviously the above list represents my own personal tastes.

And yes, if a change is announced, the work is usually finished in terms of the logo at least. 18 months isn't unusual for the design phase to precede the public rollout.

[BrandMooreArt]

i see Andrew's point. but on the line "Simply practicing the profession or labeling oneself a "designer" doesn't inherently evevate one's viewpoint or collection of ideas above the public's." . . . i would say practicing/being a designer does do that. i mean, isnt that what separates designers from non-designers? that we live in this world, have our standards and education and skill, etc.? isnt that why we charge $500+ for a logo instead of $200?

i dont mean that as a knock against any non-designers, but i think if you're really good at what you do (especially as good as Andrew and Fraser) its okay to be proud of it a bit

[hoiseeLig]

spam

[oddball]

To me all bad designs are the client's fault because in the end it's the client that says, "Yes" or "No". If it's a good designer or art director, the client will never see a bad idea. Your goal is to look out for the client and what is best for the client, because in the end that reflects upon you. Yet, if the client says, "I want this" and you think it's stupid, what are you going to do if you're getting paid for it? Design it, and just don't admit you did. Yes, the public has bad ideas, but they do have good ones too. But again, in the end it's the client that has the final say on a design, and if it's stupid, it's the client's fault.

[dsaline97]

To me all bad designs are the client's fault because in the end it's the client that says, "Yes" or "No". If it's a good designer or art director, the client will never see a bad idea. Your goal is to look out for the client and what is best for the client, because in the end that reflects upon you. Yet, if the client says, "I want this" and you think it's stupid, what are you going to do if you're getting paid for it? Design it, and just don't admit you did. Yes, the public has bad ideas, but they do have good ones too. But again, in the end it's the client that has the final say on a design, and if it's stupid, it's the client's fault.

This x1000. A lot of people here don't get that. They hate Nike, but really they should be hating the [insert clients name] instead.