Charlotte Hornets?

[IceCap]

Hell, the increase in ticket/merch sales could go a long way towards improving the product on the court and making them NOT be the same old sucky Bobcats anymore.

It won't help one iota if the people running the team don't use the increased revenue properly. Given the track record of the current Hornicats ownership group I'm going to say they won't. Or the tl;dr version?

This team is run by idiots and a Hornets-themed makeover won't change that.

[Fifty8_Black O]

Hell, the increase in ticket/merch sales could go a long way towards improving the product on the court and making them NOT be the same old sucky Bobcats anymore.

It won't help one iota if the people running the team don't use the increased revenue properly. Given the track record of the current Hornicats ownership group I'm going to say they won't. Or the tl;dr version?

This team is run by idiots and a Hornets-themed makeover won't change that.

Did Michael Jordan or Rich Cho date your sister in high school or something? I don't understand this person vendetta you seem to have against the B'cats management team.

[IceCap]

^ Somebody's upset.

Only at the blatant disregard for history that leagues show when they play Nineteen Eighty-Four with team histories to appeal to sentiment at the expense of the facts.

For all the crap the NHL rightfully gets about being a league run by liars and morons at least they have the history part down. They've kept the two different iterations of the Jets separate and refuse to grants the new Senators the history of the old Senators. Sure it flies in the face of sentiment, but at least the facts are maintained.

It's not like they're hoping this instantly changes this team back to what the old Hornets used to be. Nobody is arguing that.

As I said before I'll be surprised if we don't see some nonsense pulled with team histories to make it seem like the old Bocats/new Hornets are recognized as a continuation of the old Hornets even though they're two different teams (with the actual old Hornets still in operation). If that doesn't happen I'll be pleasantly surprised, but I'm not holding my breath.

You can't generalize and believe that all people have to feel a certain way about things. Different people from different places feel differently about things. Fueled by nostalgia? Of course. But to assume fans don't have a special connection, memory, feeling to a certain name, color, brand isn't fair.

I never "generalized." If I did I would have said "all Charlotte fans feel this way." Which, again, I didn't do. I simply pointed out how ridiculous I felt the sentiment on display here was. Which, last I checked, was an opinion I was entitled to. I didn't claim to speak for Charlotte's basketball fanbase. I just said I find the glorification of the prototypical treadmill team to be silly. If you want to wax poetically about a team that never made it past the second round of the playoffs and whose greatest cultural impact came in the realm of middle school fashion then by all means, go right ahead.

Hell, the increase in ticket/merch sales could go a long way towards improving the product on the court and making them NOT be the same old sucky Bobcats anymore.

It won't help one iota if the people running the team don't use the increased revenue properly. Given the track record of the current Hornicats ownership group I'm going to say they won't. Or the tl;dr version?

This team is run by idiots and a Hornets-themed makeover won't change that.

Did Michael Jordan or Rich Cho date your sister in high school or something? I don't understand this person vendetta you seem to have against the B'cats management team.

I don't have any sort of "vendetta" against them. I just recognize that they're inept at running a professional basketball team. Which I don't think you or any other Hornicats fan can really dispute at the moment.

Try not to take valid criticism of your favourite team as a personal insult.

[rams80]

Hell, the increase in ticket/merch sales could go a long way towards improving the product on the court and making them NOT be the same old sucky Bobcats anymore.

It won't help one iota if the people running the team don't use the increased revenue properly. Given the track record of the current Hornicats ownership group I'm going to say they won't. Or the tl;dr version?

This team is run by idiots and a Hornets-themed makeover won't change that.

Did Michael Jordan or Rich Cho date your sister in high school or something? I don't understand this person vendetta you seem to have against the B'cats management team.

I think it's pretty much an objective truth that the best thing that could ever happen to this benighted franchise would be for Jordan to lose the team in a poker game. He's made some BAD decisions from a "fielding a good team" standpoint.

[Fifty8_Black O]

Hell, the increase in ticket/merch sales could go a long way towards improving the product on the court and making them NOT be the same old sucky Bobcats anymore.

It won't help one iota if the people running the team don't use the increased revenue properly. Given the track record of the current Hornicats ownership group I'm going to say they won't. Or the tl;dr version?

This team is run by idiots and a Hornets-themed makeover won't change that.

Did Michael Jordan or Rich Cho date your sister in high school or something? I don't understand this person vendetta you seem to have against the B'cats management team.

I don't have any sort of "vendetta" against them. I just recognize that they're inept at running a professional basketball team. Which I don't think you or any other Hornicats fan can really dispute at the moment.

Try not to take valid criticism of your favourite team as a personal insult.

The term "valid criticism" hasn't applied to a phrase referring to someone as an idiot since I was in 5th grade. So perhaps you do have a some what valid point that there is no reason to be confident that the on court product will be much better after the name change. You cant, however, argue that the business of changing to the Hornets wasn't a good move. Here's a quote from today's Charlotte Observer

Bobcats officials conducted surveys over the winter to see how the change would be received. A full 80 percent of Charlotteans supported the name change.

“I’ve been involved in a number of research studies, and I’ve never seen numbers that favorable,” said Pete Guelli, the team’s marketing director.

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/07/18/4174038/charlotte-bobcats-campaign-touts.html#storylink=cpy

So at least the idiots calling the shots for the Charlotte NBA team are doing something right. And that's listening to the fans. This is why people use phrases like "Oh, you wouldn't understand because you're not from _______". It's because fans want one of two things. To watch a successful product and/or to feel a part of something. Good franchises offer both and have huge fan bases. The Bobcats offered neither. So will this be more than a flash in the pan? Only time will tell. Will the on the court product improve because they're going to play games in jerseys that say 'Hornets' on the front? Not directly- but Jordan and Co. did a lot to prove they at least are willing to try (signing a big money FA, not overpaying for role players like in the past, etc.)

I don't feel like I was by any means taking your comments any more or less personal because I live in Charlotte. I simply felt like you were attacking the decision makers in the Bobcats front office repeatedly to the point where your once legitimate points about the rebrand were becoming less and less valid. Maybe that was just me. And maybe I should've kept my opinion to myself. So I'm sorry for the sarcasm. But if I had to decide between living in a world where the Charlotte Bobcats exist and living in one where the Charlotte Hornets do I'd take the Hornets everyday of the week. Even if my great grandma was making basketball decisions. And that's all this is about. Bobcats vs. Hornets. Isn't it?

[Lights Out]

Look, Ice_Cap, we get that you're not a fan of bringing back old team names from different organizations. I used to feel the same way, but then I realized that at the end of the day, it's about what the fans want. If they want to pretend that the '90s Hornets are back in town, so be it.

In my opinion, this kind of mess could be alleviated by leagues forcing every team that relocates to change their name and leave their history behind in their previous city. That way, the opportunity for a return to the old name and history by an expansion or relocated team would be there from the start with none of the tricky historical mess.

[The_Admiral]

Did Michael Jordan or Rich Cho date your sister in high school or something?

If Jordan didn't, it wasn't for lack of trying

[IceCap]

Look, Ice_Cap, we get that you're not a fan of bringing back old team names from different organizations. I used to feel the same way, but then I realized that at the end of the day, it's about what the fans want. If they want to pretend that the '90s Hornets are back in town, so be it.

Not only is it a lie, but it won't fix the team's main problem. That they're terrible on the court. Hornets or Bobcats, it won't matter if management doesn't give the fans a team worth supporting.

In my opinion, this kind of mess could be alleviated by leagues forcing every team that relocates to change their name and leave their history behind in their previous city. That way, the opportunity for a return to the old name and history by an expansion or relocated team would be there from the start with none of the tricky historical mess.

That would be super, except for the fact that team relocations NEVER worked that way before Cleveland lost original Browns. Sure teams renaming themselves when they moved happened all the time, but the notion that history should stay with the city, and not the team, is a relatively recent development.

If things always worked your way from the start that would be one thing. We have decades upon decades (a century plus in some cases) of team and league histories based on the fact that teams that moved kept their history, however. So to suddenly say "nope let's keep it with the city because...feelings" this late in the game is to get that tricky historical mess.

[uniguy22]

Look, Ice_Cap, we get that you're not a fan of bringing back old team names from different organizations. I used to feel the same way, but then I realized that at the end of the day, it's about what the fans want. If they want to pretend that the '90s Hornets are back in town, so be it.

Not only is it a lie, but it won't fix the team's main problem. That they're terrible on the court. Hornets or Bobcats, it won't matter if management doesn't give the fans a team worth supporting.

In my opinion, this kind of mess could be alleviated by leagues forcing every team that relocates to change their name and leave their history behind in their previous city. That way, the opportunity for a return to the old name and history by an expansion or relocated team would be there from the start with none of the tricky historical mess.

That would be super, except for the fact that team relocations NEVER worked that way before Cleveland lost original Browns. Sure teams renaming themselves when they moved happened all the time, but the notion that history should stay with the city, and not the team, is a relatively recent development.

If things always worked your way from the start that would be one thing. We have decades upon decades (a century plus in some cases) of team and league histories based on the fact that teams that moved kept their history, however. So to suddenly say "nope let's keep it with the city because...feelings" this late in the game is to get that tricky historical mess.

Who cares how well they do on the court? This is a discussion about the team's name. The fans clearly wanted Hornets and they got it. That's a great move on the organizations part.

Also, I've never heard anyone say that they plan to pretend they were the old Charlotte Hornets. I think you are taking a poorly worded tweet far too literally.

[McCall]

Look, Ice_Cap, we get that you're not a fan of bringing back old team names from different organizations. I used to feel the same way, but then I realized that at the end of the day, it's about what the fans want. If they want to pretend that the '90s Hornets are back in town, so be it.

Not only is it a lie, but it won't fix the team's main problem. That they're terrible on the court. Hornets or Bobcats, it won't matter if management doesn't give the fans a team worth supporting.

It's not a lie obviously or else the fans wouldn't be clamoring for a change. They want the Hornets back, and to them it is a scenario of being "back". The fans are not bound by the technicalities of the NBA franchise lineage. They cheer for the team they want. They're the only constant. Even if the Hornets had stayed, chances are most of they people associated with the team, from ownership and executives to players, would have had a complete changeover by now. So because of this constant change, which can be the case for any team, fans cling to the name and sometimes visual identity of the team. That's why they want a return to the original name. No it's not the same franchise, ownership, or players. Yes they still suck, but its still doesn't make it a bad move. It returns at least some sense of normalcy and that's far better than what has been.

C'mon Cappie, just let them have it rather than trying to punch holes in their happiness for your own personal validation to "correct" everyone else's view on the matter. Back the buzz. Let it sting you.

[IceCap]

C'mon Cappie, just let them have it rather than trying to punch holes in their happiness for your own personal validation to "correct" everyone else's view on the matter. Back the buzz. Let it sting you.

You're the one trying to make this personal.

And no, I don't care if I change anyone's mind or not. I really don't. I'm just expressing my views on the issue that's up for discussion. Kind of the point of the message boards you know? This place would be incredibly boring if we all agreed on everything.

--cut for space--

You could have just said that, you know It would have been better then getting angry about someone calling out your favourite team's owners for their lukewarm track record. I mean I do that to my favourite team's ownership group all the time!

[frosty06306]

Lol, Jordan and Cho stripped apart a roster that had tons of bad deals and bad pieces from the previous ownership and are rebuilding through the draft. What the hell was he supposed to do, keep all of the players from the 7th seed playoff run and peak there for four straight seasons? Give me a break, so many misconceptions about the Charlotte franchise. It's incredible.

[Discogod]

It's not like teams renaming themselves after past franchises is a new thing in the NBA anyway. There were Denver Nuggets & Baltimore Bullets teams in the 40s/50s, and nobody had a problem with later teams adopting those nicknames - if anything, it was seen as a nice way to honor the past teams.

As long as the Horncats don't try and claim the original Hornets' history as their own (although I wouldn't be opposed to retiring a few numbers, say #'s 1, 13 and 30...).

[Wilt]

I don't really buy the argument that changing the name will not change the team performance in the long run because that's not the point. Even if the buzz lasts 2-3 years only, it still means extra cash from increased tickets and merchandise sales. As a businessman you can't reject a solution that would increase your income especially since it involves hardly any effort.

Of course another question is if the sport management will be able to take advantage of this leverage...

[Brick]

That would be super, except for the fact that team relocations NEVER worked that way before Cleveland lost original Browns. Sure teams renaming themselves when they moved happened all the time, but the notion that history should stay with the city, and not the team, is a relatively recent development.

No, it's not recent. At the time, the 1961-1971 Washington Senators were considered a continuation of the 1901-1960 Washington Senators.

As far as Michael Jordan, he wasn't a good general manager with the Wizards either. One of these things is not like the others: Bryce Harper, Stephen Strasburg, Alexander Ovechkin, Kwame Brown.

[illwauk]

And to answer the question - the Hornets were, among other things, Charlotte's first 'major league' sports franchise. Winner or loser, there's a nostalgia attached to that. Sadly by the time the original team left, its owner had so poisoned relations with the fan base that they didn't care. The new franchise has never caught on for one reason - they lose on the court. A lot. Charlotte's basketball fan base never left; they just won't back a loser, and that's what they saw in the Bobcats organization and name.

The more nostalgic (and clueless) among them think that Michael Jordan and his regime will bring winning basketball back to Charlotte, and inexplicably that bringing back the Hornets moniker will be a piece in that. That somehow rebranding the team back to the Hornets will ignite competitive fires. Sadly, what they don't realize is that while on the court Jordan may have done miraculous things, as a basketball executive the man's proven himself utterly hopeless... that Bobcats or Hornets, the team's going to continue to suck.

Co-signed.

I would compare this to the Bucks most recent re-brand. Bringing back the green and red worn by Kareem, Oscar, and all the great teams from the 70s and 80s reinvigorated the fanbase temporarily; and it sure seemed like you couldn't go anywhere in Milwaukee without seeing the new Bucks gear for a good 6 months or so. But once reality set in that this was still the same, crappy post-Ray Allen team that has to scrap and claw its way for even a CHANCE at the 8-seed every year, the city went straight back to not caring.

Still, as long as there has to be a crappy basketball team in Milwaukee, I'd rather they wear green than purple, and as long as there has to be a crappy basketball team in Charlotte, I'd rather it be the Hornets than the Bobcats.

[jrodsep]

This has to be the best Hornets' concept I've seen yet. By a CCSLCer, Jordan Sain. Just swap out the teal with carolina blue. http://dribbble.com/jordansain

Would like to see them go this route. To merely refresh the old NOLA/ old Cha. Hornets logo would be a disappointing regression and entirely too much recycling. It wasn't that great of a logo to begin with.

To me that concept and that color scheme is absolutely perfect.

[AAO]

But wait! There's more!

http://boards.sportslogos.net/topic/93977-charlotte-hornets-concept-ii-and-iii-update-with-new-hornet/

[rams80]

Lol, Jordan and Cho stripped apart a roster that had tons of bad deals and bad pieces from the previous ownership and are rebuilding through the draft. What the hell was he supposed to do, keep all of the players from the 7th seed playoff run and peak there for four straight seasons? Give me a break, so many misconceptions about the Charlotte franchise. It's incredible.

I suppose that's one interpretation. Another (one that is supported by Jordan's actions during the lockout) is that his business plan is to take the Bobcats as close to the floor as he can. I suppose the acid test will come when the rookie contracts expire. Of course this also assumes the Bobcats management team can actually evaluate talent. I'm not quite sure where that idea came from.

[KDubK414]

Let's all just be happy the Hornets name is back in Charlotte and the Jets name in Winnipeg. Said like an old man....."Quit yer :censored:ing. Sometimes I swear you can't make anyone completely happy anymore. Just enjoy the ride.