Washington Redtails.....Discuss

[ESTONES6]

The Redtails aren't a terrible name, but I'm not sure it works for football. Redtails seems more like a minor league baseball team than a prefessional football franchise. I try to avoid politics, because no matter what, it turns into a pissing contests. Frankly I think we put too much attention and give too much power to race and prejudice, thus empowering it and having the exact opposite effect that we want.

That being said, I do lump the Indians' "Chief Wahoo" logo and the Washington "Redskins" nickname as 2 things that need to change in sports. Personally, I don't think the Indians, Illini, Braves, Seminoles etc. are racist or disrespectful in name. Florida State and Illinious don't make charactures out of the tribes or Native Americans. The Indians, on the other hand, have a pretty racist logo that perpetuates stereotypes. Again, I don't think the name Indians is an issue (considering the intent of the name and who it honors), but the logo is.

Anyway, when it comes to the Redskins. The term Redskin was literally a slang/racist term. I think it should be changed. However, I don't think going from one racially influenced nickname to another is a wise mood, even if the Redtails are to pay homage to the Tuskegee Airmen. Personally, I think the Pigskins would be a better name. Just think, you play football with the pigskin, its similar in sound to the previous name, and the freaking fan base dresses as pigs. It would seem perfect.

[Kevin W.]

There's a very simple reason why Washington needs to change their name: it is a slur. There is no argument that can change that.

[illwauk]

This is probably one of the dumbest ideas I think I've ever heard. So, we trade a controversial nickname for one that's arguably just as racist? It just doesn't make any sense to me at all. Plus, the name "Redtails" would only work in Alabama, since they were from Tuskegee, and not the greater DC metro area.

Back on page 3, I posted a link to an article about one of the original Redtail planes being donated to the Smithsonian in DC, so it's not like Redtails would be out of nowhere.

And... I mean this with no antagonism intended... please study up on what racism actually is before you try entering a discussion on it. No one who has the faintest clue of what racism is would take the a name like the Redtails as such. I'm not saying there aren't legit criticisms of the Redtails name, but being racist certianly isn't one of them.

[illwauk]

I know that the last time we went around on this, someone said this, but it bears repeating;

If you don't think "Redskins" is an insult, next time the local tribes in your area are gathering for a Pow Wow, attend it yourself, listen to some music, watch the dancing... then walk up to a group of young men and say, "What's up, Redskins?" After your severe beating has ended, your perspective might be different.

Well, would you go up to a group of black guys and say "What's up, Negroes?"

If not, why do we still refer to early 20th century black baseball as the Negro leagues?

I think referring to something that hasn't existed since Negro was considered a polite term has a bit to do with it.

Now if you want to talk about the "C" in NAACP, you might have a point.

[Kevin W.]

I know that the last time we went around on this, someone said this, but it bears repeating;

If you don't think "Redskins" is an insult, next time the local tribes in your area are gathering for a Pow Wow, attend it yourself, listen to some music, watch the dancing... then walk up to a group of young men and say, "What's up, Redskins?" After your severe beating has ended, your perspective might be different.

Well, would you go up to a group of black guys and say "What's up, Negroes?"

If not, why do we still refer to early 20th century black baseball as the Negro leagues?

I think referring to something that hasn't existed since Negro was considered a polite term has a bit to do with it.

Now if you want to talk about the "C" in NAACP, you might have a point.

[ddub53]

I know that the last time we went around on this, someone said this, but it bears repeating;

If you don't think "Redskins" is an insult, next time the local tribes in your area are gathering for a Pow Wow, attend it yourself, listen to some music, watch the dancing... then walk up to a group of young men and say, "What's up, Redskins?" After your severe beating has ended, your perspective might be different.

Well, would you go up to a group of black guys and say "What's up, Negroes?"

If not, why do we still refer to early 20th century black baseball as the Negro leagues?

I think referring to something that hasn't existed since Negro was considered a polite term has a bit to do with it.

Now if you want to talk about the "C" in NAACP, you might have a point.

It's real simple. It's called the Negro Leagues because that is what the leagues were officially called. You had the Negro American League and the Negro National League. One of the earlier major leagues was called the Eastern Colored League. You just can't go changing history after the fact to appease today's politcal correctness. It is what it is.

I also don't think you'd go up to a group of black guys and say, what's up African Americans?

[udubs03]

I really didn't want to read through seven pages of ridiculous race debate, so this may have been brought up already. If they changed to the Redtails, they could use it as in Red-tailed hawks. I'm not sure if there are many if any in the DC area (according to any distribution maps I've seen, there are), but this would allow them to keep their feather motif while stepping away from the controversy of their current nickname. There is still a bit of a tie to Native American imagery, but it would be pretty benign. I could see that working out really well.

[DustDevil61]

I prefer Redskins. I hope that never goes away. It may have been a negative word for those that are either no longer alive or on their way out, but today's generation doesn't see the word used in that view. To today's society, it is nothing more than a team name with a massive fan base. I wish we could just move on.

We would if George Preston Marshall wasn't a ing racist pig and didn't deliberately select the most racist moniker for his team that he could think of.

While Marshall was a massively racist pig, saying he chose Redskins simply because it was the most racist name he could think of is rather silly. They started as the Braves because they shared a stadium with baseball's Boston Braves. When they moved in with the Boston Red Sox they couldn't be the Braves any more, but still wanted Native American imagery, thus Redskins. They didn't think about whether or not it was racist, it was just another term for Native Americans to them.

As for changing the name, the easiest solution is to go back to the spear helmet, drop an official nickname entirely, and just be known as Washington (Washington Football or something as far as trademarking). Fans can still call them the 'Skins, but the team makes no money from a derogatory term.

I think that could also work if the team were to go back to the name Braves, with the spear on the helmet.

I really didn't want to read through seven pages of ridiculous race debate, so this may have been brought up already. If they changed to the Redtails, they could use it as in Red-tailed hawks. I'm not sure if there are many if any in the DC area (according to any distribution maps I've seen, there are), but this would allow them to keep their feather motif while stepping away from the controversy of their current nickname. There is still a bit of a tie to Native American imagery, but it would be pretty benign. I could see that working out really well.

Of course, some teams still have Native American-themed names while generally distancing themselves from any direct Native American imagery*--the Kansas City Chiefs, Utah Utes, Illinois Illini, and Atlanta Braves^ among others. I prefer, at this point, that the Redskins rename themselves the Braves and then use the spear logo on their helmet. It reverts to the team's original, less-offensive (if at all) name while keeping some sort of continuity (at least with the spear and colors).

*i.e., no faces or mascots but instead arrowheads (Chiefs), tomahawks (Braves), feathers/drum (Utes), or just the name (Illini).

^Notwithstanding the attempted revival of the "yelling Indian" logo that was soon shot down.

[rams80]

I prefer Redskins. I hope that never goes away. It may have been a negative word for those that are either no longer alive or on their way out, but today's generation doesn't see the word used in that view. To today's society, it is nothing more than a team name with a massive fan base. I wish we could just move on.

We would if George Preston Marshall wasn't a ing racist pig and didn't deliberately select the most racist moniker for his team that he could think of.

While Marshall was a massively racist pig, saying he chose Redskins simply because it was the most racist name he could think of is rather silly. They started as the Braves because they shared a stadium with baseball's Boston Braves. When they moved in with the Boston Red Sox they couldn't be the Braves any more, but still wanted Native American imagery, thus Redskins. They didn't think about whether or not it was racist, it was just another term for Native Americans to them.

If you wanted the Native American imagery the name "Indians" works just as well for this time frame. Except for the fact it wasn't a slur back then. Ignorance is not a defense for a man whose obscene racism is as well documented as his self-awareness of being that racist.

[burgundy]

I prefer Redskins. I hope that never goes away. It may have been a negative word for those that are either no longer alive or on their way out, but today's generation doesn't see the word used in that view. To today's society, it is nothing more than a team name with a massive fan base. I wish we could just move on.

We would if George Preston Marshall wasn't a ing racist pig and didn't deliberately select the most racist moniker for his team that he could think of.

While Marshall was a massively racist pig, saying he chose Redskins simply because it was the most racist name he could think of is rather silly. They started as the Braves because they shared a stadium with baseball's Boston Braves. When they moved in with the Boston Red Sox they couldn't be the Braves any more, but still wanted Native American imagery, thus Redskins. They didn't think about whether or not it was racist, it was just another term for Native Americans to them.

If you wanted the Native American imagery the name "Indians" works just as well for this time frame. Except for the fact it wasn't a slur back then. Ignorance is not a defense for a man whose obscene racism is as well documented as his self-awareness of being that racist.

They shared a stadium with the RED Sox, and the use of Redskins as a sports nickname already had precedence. Miami University had used the name since at least 1931.

[Needschat]

Change the name to Americans, but have the logo more representative of the ENTIRE spectrum of nations within America. Sort of like a Columbus Crew take, but with 4 or 5 men

[Needschat]

The Redtails aren't a terrible name, but I'm not sure it works for football. Redtails seems more like a minor league baseball team than a prefessional football franchise. I try to avoid politics, because no matter what, it turns into a pissing contests. Frankly I think we put too much attention and give too much power to race and prejudice, thus empowering it and having the exact opposite effect that we want.

That being said, I do lump the Indians' "Chief Wahoo" logo and the Washington "Redskins" nickname as 2 things that need to change in sports. Personally, I don't think the Indians, Illini, Braves, Seminoles etc. are racist or disrespectful in name. Florida State and Illinious don't make charactures out of the tribes or Native Americans. The Indians, on the other hand, have a pretty racist logo that perpetuates stereotypes. Again, I don't think the name Indians is an issue (considering the intent of the name and who it honors), but the logo is.

Anyway, when it comes to the Redskins. The term Redskin was literally a slang/racist term. I think it should be changed. However, I don't think going from one racially influenced nickname to another is a wise mood, even if the Redtails are to pay homage to the Tuskegee Airmen. Personally, I think the Pigskins would be a better name. Just think, you play football with the pigskin, its similar in sound to the previous name, and the freaking fan base dresses as pigs. It would seem perfect.

A local high school was going to change their nickname from "Indians" about 10 years ago. At a public forum, residents, alumni, and others said it would be a good thing. Then stepped to the podium was a local Stockbridge Mohican. He suggested that the logo be changed: It was a silhouette of a plains Native in war bonnet. His son, an artist, showed them a few sketches of Northeastern woodland Natives, as the school is in upstate NY near the VT border. The school board kept the name, discontinued the logo, and used one of the son's sketches on the sports department letterhead.

Cleveland should get rid of the offensive caricature and replace it with something local.

[rams80]

I prefer Redskins. I hope that never goes away. It may have been a negative word for those that are either no longer alive or on their way out, but today's generation doesn't see the word used in that view. To today's society, it is nothing more than a team name with a massive fan base. I wish we could just move on.

We would if George Preston Marshall wasn't a ing racist pig and didn't deliberately select the most racist moniker for his team that he could think of.

While Marshall was a massively racist pig, saying he chose Redskins simply because it was the most racist name he could think of is rather silly. They started as the Braves because they shared a stadium with baseball's Boston Braves. When they moved in with the Boston Red Sox they couldn't be the Braves any more, but still wanted Native American imagery, thus Redskins. They didn't think about whether or not it was racist, it was just another term for Native Americans to them.

If you wanted the Native American imagery the name "Indians" works just as well for this time frame. Except for the fact it wasn't a slur back then. Ignorance is not a defense for a man whose obscene racism is as well documented as his self-awareness of being that racist.

They shared a stadium with the RED Sox, and the use of Redskins as a sports nickname already had precedence. Miami University had used the name since at least 1931.

So Redmen then. Still better than Redskins.

[BrandMooreArt]

I really didn't want to read through seven pages of ridiculous race debate, so this may have been brought up already. If they changed to the Redtails, they could use it as in Red-tailed hawks. I'm not sure if there are many if any in the DC area (according to any distribution maps I've seen, there are), but this would allow them to keep their feather motif while stepping away from the controversy of their current nickname. There is still a bit of a tie to Native American imagery, but it would be pretty benign. I could see that working out really well.

that's actually exactly what i was thinking when i heard "redtails" the first time

[burgundy]

I prefer Redskins. I hope that never goes away. It may have been a negative word for those that are either no longer alive or on their way out, but today's generation doesn't see the word used in that view. To today's society, it is nothing more than a team name with a massive fan base. I wish we could just move on.

We would if George Preston Marshall wasn't a ing racist pig and didn't deliberately select the most racist moniker for his team that he could think of.

While Marshall was a massively racist pig, saying he chose Redskins simply because it was the most racist name he could think of is rather silly. They started as the Braves because they shared a stadium with baseball's Boston Braves. When they moved in with the Boston Red Sox they couldn't be the Braves any more, but still wanted Native American imagery, thus Redskins. They didn't think about whether or not it was racist, it was just another term for Native Americans to them.

If you wanted the Native American imagery the name "Indians" works just as well for this time frame. Except for the fact it wasn't a slur back then. Ignorance is not a defense for a man whose obscene racism is as well documented as his self-awareness of being that racist.

They shared a stadium with the RED Sox, and the use of Redskins as a sports nickname already had precedence. Miami University had used the name since at least 1931.

So Redmen then. Still better than Redskins.

How? If they'd have called themselves the Redmen, they'd still be in the same situation, and everyone would be having the same exact debate.

[rams80]

You can make some argument that "Redmen" is not as blatant a slur as "Redskins".

[illwauk]

You can make some argument that "Redmen" is not as blatant a slur as "Redskins".

Especially since we still use phrases like white man and black man.

I prefer Redskins. I hope that never goes away. It may have been a negative word for those that are either no longer alive or on their way out, but today's generation doesn't see the word used in that view. To today's society, it is nothing more than a team name with a massive fan base. I wish we could just move on.

We would if George Preston Marshall wasn't a ing racist pig and didn't deliberately select the most racist moniker for his team that he could think of.

While Marshall was a massively racist pig, saying he chose Redskins simply because it was the most racist name he could think of is rather silly. They started as the Braves because they shared a stadium with baseball's Boston Braves. When they moved in with the Boston Red Sox they couldn't be the Braves any more, but still wanted Native American imagery, thus Redskins. They didn't think about whether or not it was racist, it was just another term for Native Americans to them.

If you wanted the Native American imagery the name "Indians" works just as well for this time frame. Except for the fact it wasn't a slur back then. Ignorance is not a defense for a man whose obscene racism is as well documented as his self-awareness of being that racist.

They shared a stadium with the RED Sox, and the use of Redskins as a sports nickname already had precedence. Miami University had used the name since at least 1931.

So Redmen then. Still better than Redskins.

Or, better yet... Red Sox. If they could double-up on the Braves name and identity (as well as the Dodgers), then why not the Sox?

[DeFrank]

One of the biggest Redskins fans around here... Go to all the games since I was 4, yadda yadda...

I'm completely ambivalent about the name change. I literally could not care less if they change the name. Keep my colors, songs, and city.

Now Redtails unfortunately kind of sucks. There are much better options, among them Potomacs, Federals, Warpaths, and Warriors.

EDIT!

[IceCap]

One of the biggest Redskins fans around here... Go to all the games since I was 4, yadda yadda...

I'm completely ambivalent about the name change. I literally could not care less if they change the name. Keep my colors, songs, and city.

Now Redtails unfortunately kind of sucks. There are much better options, among them Potomacs, Federals, Warpaths, and Warpaths.

KAW-POW!

[illwauk]

I know that the last time we went around on this, someone said this, but it bears repeating;

If you don't think "Redskins" is an insult, next time the local tribes in your area are gathering for a Pow Wow, attend it yourself, listen to some music, watch the dancing... then walk up to a group of young men and say, "What's up, Redskins?" After your severe beating has ended, your perspective might be different.

Well, would you go up to a group of black guys and say "What's up, Negroes?"

If not, why do we still refer to early 20th century black baseball as the Negro leagues?

I think referring to something that hasn't existed since Negro was considered a polite term has a bit to do with it.

Now if you want to talk about the "C" in NAACP, you might have a point.

It's real simple. It's called the Negro Leagues because that is what the leagues were officially called. You had the Negro American League and the Negro National League. One of the earlier major leagues was called the Eastern Colored League. You just can't go changing history after the fact to appease today's politcal correctness. It is what it is.

I've done more research on the Negro Leagues than you could ever imagine... I even made an NES rom based on teams that competed in them. Trust me, I don't need your agenda-driven "correction."

I also don't think you'd go up to a group of black guys and say, what's up African Americans?

I've found that "What's up, Mario?" or "What's up, Tahrim?" usually works best.