Help the (NBA) Mavericks design their new uniforms

[PlatinumAmphibian]

I have no problem with him holding a competition like this but I think he needs to acknowledge the winner with something, even if not monetary, maybe season tickets or a personalised jersey of the new design or simply recognised as the designer

[Tynamo]

I have no problem with him holding a competition like this but I think he needs to acknowledge the winner with something, even if not monetary, maybe season tickets or a personalised jersey of the new design or simply recognised as the designer

That depends on what MC means by "bragging rights". I'm assuming you get credit for it though.

[OnWis97]

I have no problem with him holding a competition like this but I think he needs to acknowledge the winner with something, even if not monetary, maybe season tickets or a personalised jersey of the new design or simply recognised as the designer

I guess he does not "need" to do anything, but it would be "nice" to do something. Season tickets, or at least an expense-paid trip to the debut of the uniforms if the winner is an out-of-towner. Along with a customized jersey and some other goodies.

It will be very interesting to see how this goes...how the "quality" will be viewed in general and by the design community. I feel for designers, who may be worried about whether this is precedent-setting.

Does anyone have a sense of whether a professional designer will likely be brought in to deal with the "details" (e.g., the aforementioned kerning) that the fan-designer does not even think about?

Also, if the winner is an aspiring designer, will that person be shunned by the design community?

As an aside, I almost wish college football programs would do this...it beats making the uniforms waking manufacturer billboards.

[TalktoChuck]

This isn't going to be some great connection the winner has with the team. If people think they're going to get bragging rights and all that from this they are mistaken.

The winner will be cast aside and never mentioned. From the wording of the rules, it sounds like they won't get anything in return. No name recognition, no money, no tickets, not even a diner. Like someone else said, Cuban will take the winning design and then pay addidas to make it look professional. It would be like having someone build you a deck for free and then you pay someone else to come in and paint it.

[STL FANATIC]

The long and short of this is you have to understand, we professional designers don't think this should be against the law. None of us made what we do today on our first designs. But it is not in the best interest of the client and if we don't believe in the value of design enough to voice our opinions, why are we doing this in the first place?

You, BMA, and I have written about 15-20 paragraphs about this in this thread, but you NAILED it with that last one.

The free market is the free market, but 9 times out of 10, an amateur isn't going to everything as well as a trained professional. And if the little things truly didn't matter (as someone suggested earlier), then there'd be no need for our profession. But I think history proves they do matter.

Is a uniform going to be make or break for a pretty established team in a really established league. Nah. It won't be. They can get away with little mistakes. But they might be just that much better if they didn't make them. And certainly not every brand can afford to be mistake-laden.

[goforbroke]

All I'm saying is its not Mark Cuban's fault. I don't think anyone should be saying what he's doing is wrong. If he's willing to accept "good enough" and professional designers have a problem with that, i feel thats on their own heads. I provide a service in my career professionaly and I think I'm good at it and worth the money, but if someone wants to hire some high school kid to do it and they are happy enough at the results and especially with the price then why would that bother me?

I 100% agree that the job won't be as good - but the difference will likely be inconsequential to the people that care.

[rmackman]

My entry...

Here is the thought behind my design:

As Mr. Cuban quoted Steve Jobs, "Everything is a Remix." Therefore, my uniform is designed to be a true remix that adheres to the heart of who the Dallas Mavericks are. When you look at classic teams in the NBA such as the Lakers, the Celtics, the Knicks, the Bulls...and yes, I'll say it, even the Miami Heat, they all have one thing in common. They never strayed far from their true identity. They may have made minor modifications or modernizations over time, but they never made drastic overhauls, thus creating long-lasting brand recognition. You, your father, and your grandfather should all be able to easily identify with, and garner positive emotion from, your favorite team. Sports are rare in that fandom is often passed down from one generation to the next, whereas your favorite paper towel or soda brand is usually a personal preference. There's typically a deeper connection with sports teams.

From 1980-2001 the Dallas Mavericks used a Royal Blue and Kelly Green combination. It was clean, visually appealing, and it had the makings of a classic uniform despite the fact that the team performed poorly on the court. Since 2001, the Mavs have had a more modern, albeit darker, look coupled with success that culminated with two NBA Finals appearances and one NBA Championship. My goal was that these uniforms merge the nostalgia of Mavs fans who have been there from the beginning with the winning aura of today's Maverick teams.

These uniforms employ a slightly lighter blue and green than the original 1980s color palette, the font has been faintly modified from the early 1990s styling, but the cut of the jersey, the overall feel, and the small star above the player names is in line with today's Dallas Mavericks.

I brought back the old cowboy hat logo, stylized the numbers to be more readable than they currently are, and I used the current alternate logo to create a brand new alternate logo better reflecting the Maverick name. The alternate logo depicts a "Pair of Aces" to be worn on the waistband of the shorts. Instead of the letter A, each card has a D or an M for Dallas Mavericks. The star on the back of the jersey is now featured in place of what would be a spade, diamond, heart, or club. In the center of the front card, you will see your old horse alternate logo.

These uniforms now feature the name Mavericks, a cowboy hat, cards, stars, and a horse. I hope that these five symbols together will represent the city of Dallas, Texas proudly in the way that they would want to be remembered.

Thank you.

Sincerely,

Ryan Mackman

[rmackman]

One slight problem...I can post to his blog, but I can't get a Twitter screen shot to appear on his blog. How do I do that?

[nash61]

Dallas Marinerzzzzz?

I'd buy merchandise.

[STL FANATIC]

All I'm saying is its not Mark Cuban's fault. I don't think anyone should be saying what he's doing is wrong. If he's willing to accept "good enough" and professional designers have a problem with that, i feel thats on their own heads. I provide a service in my career professionaly and I think I'm good at it and worth the money, but if someone wants to hire some high school kid to do it and they are happy enough at the results and especially with the price then why would that bother me?

I 100% agree that the job won't be as good - but the difference will likely be inconsequential to the people that care.

I would concur with most of this.

I'd say the main reason I would still be bothered by it, is that I'm ALWAYS bothered by imperfect design (of which most things are, so lets say really imperfect design). That goes doubly for sports design, but really everywhere.

It's not that the people who run organizations don't have the right to be satisfied with whatever design they choose, it's just that I always wish things had been done better.

But as we both note, in this case, other than some frustrations here, the Mavericks overall brand is not likely to be affected terribly by this decision.

[Lee.]

I'm willing to bet that he's doing this in part to subsidize the alleged "half a million to change primary logos" rule that the NBA has.

If he sees something that makes it worth his while to cough up that money, and gets to pay a fraction of what he would to have a "professional" do up a new logo and uniform set from scratch, that makes it far more palatable. He's a businessman, first and foremost. Businessmen, for the most part, are in the business of making money without spending too much to get there.

Do I like the idea? Not particularly. Can anyone be blamed for running a promo or a contest like this? Not in the slightest.

[rmackman]

Here's part 1...I got the image to load. So, if anyone likes my design, please feel free to "like" it on his blog so it gets more votes. http://blogmaverick.com/2013/05/13/help-the-mavs-design-our-next-uniform/#comment-80841

Part 2:

Why is everyone getting so angry about this? The Brewers original BiG logo was done by an amateur, the Brewers had a design a BP uniform contest, other teams have run contests like this before.... I don't see the harm.

What Mark Cuban is thinking is, "I'm going to do something a little outside the box." He likes doing things that way. The assumption is that those who get paid to do something are the best at what they do. That's not always true. Because you get paid does not validate your ability. I see corporate logos all the time that I think, "Who the hell paid someone to design that crap?"

I'm having a website built by a friend of mine because he's AWESOME at it. He doesn't do it for a living, but he should. He has a different day job. Why go pay a web designer when I can have my buddy do it cheaper and with better quality?

I know people who cut hair as a hobby. They're not stylists or barbers, but they do a good job. They'll cut their friends' hair in exchange for drinks or something. Happens all the time.

I see nothing wrong with what Mark Cuban is doing.

[BrandMooreArt]

I have no problem with him holding a competition like this but I think he needs to acknowledge the winner with something, even if not monetary, maybe season tickets or a personalised jersey of the new design or simply recognised as the designer

I guess he does not "need" to do anything, but it would be "nice" to do something. Season tickets, or at least an expense-paid trip to the debut of the uniforms if the winner is an out-of-towner. Along with a customized jersey and some other goodies.

It will be very interesting to see how this goes...how the "quality" will be viewed in general and by the design community. I feel for designers, who may be worried about whether this is precedent-setting.

Does anyone have a sense of whether a professional designer will likely be brought in to deal with the "details" (e.g., the aforementioned kerning) that the fan-designer does not even think about?

Also, if the winner is an aspiring designer, will that person be shunned by the design community?

As an aside, I almost wish college football programs would do this...it beats making the uniforms waking manufacturer billboards.

shunned? no. frowned upon? maybe. if it's a young cat out of college and dosent really know any better about the downsides of spec work and impacts on design industry then that's just what it is. congrats to him; i guess. one of my design heroes, Tin Bacic, does a lot of crowd sourcing though. he has a full time job as a designer and in his spare time crushes it on 99designs.com and the like. i wished he didnt obviously, i feel like he's losing a bit of himself and the rest of us on $200 logos, but the dude has my respect as an artist because he's just amazing at it. i guess the worst part of it is that he can do anything he wants in design and chooses that route. he's part of the problem, where people look at his work and say "i can get that quality on the cheap!" but he's a rare exception. most contest are disasters

[Lee.]

maybe Bacic just likes to keep his chops up in that manner, though. Many people do side work in their spare time, maybe he sees that as a time killer or a way to stretch his chops out a little further than what he's being contracted to do.

Mechanics work out of their garage for a fraction of their shop costs all the time. Designers can, and maybe should, do the same for simpler ideas if they're so inclined.

[BrandMooreArt]

maybe Bacic just likes to keep his chops up in that manner, though. Many people do side work in their spare time, maybe he sees that as a time killer or a way to stretch his chops out a little further than what he's being contracted to do.

Mechanics work out of their garage for a fraction of their shop costs all the time. Designers can, and maybe should, do the same for simpler ideas if they're so inclined.

perhaps. it's how i did it right out of school and built some portfolio pieces that way. but i was one of those ignorant to the big picture at the time. what most designers do now outside of work is "personal projects". redesigning the RedBull identity for instance. a lot have other artistic interest too. painting, drawing, photography. im all for the "never stop learning" method and keeping yourself busy, but not at the cost of hurting your own profession. it's very much shooting yourself in the foot

[guest23]

I have no problem with him holding a competition like this but I think he needs to acknowledge the winner with something, even if not monetary, maybe season tickets or a personalised jersey of the new design or simply recognised as the designer

I guess he does not "need" to do anything, but it would be "nice" to do something. Season tickets, or at least an expense-paid trip to the debut of the uniforms if the winner is an out-of-towner. Along with a customized jersey and some other goodies.

It will be very interesting to see how this goes...how the "quality" will be viewed in general and by the design community. I feel for designers, who may be worried about whether this is precedent-setting.

Does anyone have a sense of whether a professional designer will likely be brought in to deal with the "details" (e.g., the aforementioned kerning) that the fan-designer does not even think about?

Also, if the winner is an aspiring designer, will that person be shunned by the design community?

As an aside, I almost wish college football programs would do this...it beats making the uniforms waking manufacturer billboards.

shunned? no. frowned upon? maybe. if it's a young cat out of college and dosent really know any better about the downsides of spec work and impacts on design industry then that's just what it is. congrats to him; i guess. one of my design heroes, Tin Bacic, does a lot of crowd sourcing though. he has a full time job as a designer and in his spare time crushes it on 99designs.com and the like. i wished he didnt obviously, i feel like he's losing a bit of himself and the rest of us on $200 logos, but the dude has my respect as an artist because he's just amazing at it. i guess the worst part of it is that he can do anything he wants in design and chooses that route. he's part of the problem, where people look at his work and say "i can get that quality on the cheap!" but he's a rare exception. most contest are disasters

Sounds like graphic designers need to form a trade group or unionize in order to create an artificial labor shortage and set a floor for wages.

[TalktoChuck]

I have no problem with Cuban doing this. I'd prefer if he didn't, but I understand why he would.

The thing that bothers me is the part where it says once you submit the design Mark Cuban owns it and can do whatever he wants with it without having to compensate the designer at all. That just seems very sketchy to me.

[BrandMooreArt]

I have no problem with him holding a competition like this but I think he needs to acknowledge the winner with something, even if not monetary, maybe season tickets or a personalised jersey of the new design or simply recognised as the designer

I guess he does not "need" to do anything, but it would be "nice" to do something. Season tickets, or at least an expense-paid trip to the debut of the uniforms if the winner is an out-of-towner. Along with a customized jersey and some other goodies.

It will be very interesting to see how this goes...how the "quality" will be viewed in general and by the design community. I feel for designers, who may be worried about whether this is precedent-setting.

Does anyone have a sense of whether a professional designer will likely be brought in to deal with the "details" (e.g., the aforementioned kerning) that the fan-designer does not even think about?

Also, if the winner is an aspiring designer, will that person be shunned by the design community?

As an aside, I almost wish college football programs would do this...it beats making the uniforms waking manufacturer billboards.

shunned? no. frowned upon? maybe. if it's a young cat out of college and dosent really know any better about the downsides of spec work and impacts on design industry then that's just what it is. congrats to him; i guess. one of my design heroes, Tin Bacic, does a lot of crowd sourcing though. he has a full time job as a designer and in his spare time crushes it on 99designs.com and the like. i wished he didnt obviously, i feel like he's losing a bit of himself and the rest of us on $200 logos, but the dude has my respect as an artist because he's just amazing at it. i guess the worst part of it is that he can do anything he wants in design and chooses that route. he's part of the problem, where people look at his work and say "i can get that quality on the cheap!" but he's a rare exception. most contest are disasters

Sounds like graphic designers need to form a trade group or unionize in order to create an artificial labor shortage and set a floor for wages.

i believe thats kind of what the AIGA is

[goforbroke]

shunned? no. frowned upon? maybe. if it's a young cat out of college and dosent really know any better about the downsides of spec work and impacts on design industry then that's just what it is. congrats to him; i guess. one of my design heroes, Tin Bacic, does a lot of crowd sourcing though. he has a full time job as a designer and in his spare time crushes it on 99designs.com and the like. i wished he didnt obviously, i feel like he's losing a bit of himself and the rest of us on $200 logos, but the dude has my respect as an artist because he's just amazing at it. i guess the worst part of it is that he can do anything he wants in design and chooses that route. he's part of the problem, where people look at his work and say "i can get that quality on the cheap!" but he's a rare exception. most contest are disasters

See but that seems like sour grapes to me. Someone is doing it cheaper and as good (or lets say "good enough") as much higher priced work. You take offense to that because you think that he and people like him are taking ur business away, and making potential customers reconsider spending that much money if 99designs is "good enough". You're pissed at the designer for doing the work cheaper, and for the customer for being willing to accept lower quality for cheaper rather than paying for professional work. But really your just pissed that your losing business and that the profession is becoming unnecessary due to a combination of amateur talent and customer complacency.

It seems to me that Tin Bacic has it figured out. He's staying ahead of he curve. His talents have devalued to be honest... they're worth what people think its worth. BUT he's better than amatuer designers so he's stealing their business before they steal his. You have to adapt.

[BrandMooreArt]

shunned? no. frowned upon? maybe. if it's a young cat out of college and dosent really know any better about the downsides of spec work and impacts on design industry then that's just what it is. congrats to him; i guess. one of my design heroes, Tin Bacic, does a lot of crowd sourcing though. he has a full time job as a designer and in his spare time crushes it on 99designs.com and the like. i wished he didnt obviously, i feel like he's losing a bit of himself and the rest of us on $200 logos, but the dude has my respect as an artist because he's just amazing at it. i guess the worst part of it is that he can do anything he wants in design and chooses that route. he's part of the problem, where people look at his work and say "i can get that quality on the cheap!" but he's a rare exception. most contest are disasters

See but that seems like sour grapes to me. Someone is doing it cheaper and as good (or lets say "good enough") as much higher priced work. You take offense to that because you think that he and people like him are taking ur business away, and making potential customers reconsider spending that much money if 99designs is "good enough". You're pissed at the designer for doing the work cheaper, and for the customer for being willing to accept lower quality for cheaper rather than paying for professional work. But really your just pissed that your losing business and that the profession is becoming unnecessary due to a combination of amateur talent and customer complacency.

It seems to me that Tin Bacic has it figured out. He's staying ahead of he curve. His talents have devalued to be honest... they're worth what people think its worth. BUT he's better than amatuer designers so he's stealing their business before they steal his. You have to adapt.

i wouldnt say he's so much taking business away from others (some ofcourse, but mostly clients who cant afford nor need Landor to create their identity), but he is leading to the cheapening the rates. and hurting himself in that process (big picture) if he could pay his bills and make a living on 99designs.com, he wouldn't have his full time gig to begin with.

i just dont think it's right that everyone should get on Tin's skill level, and then do the work for a fraction.

our whole stance against it probably sounds greedy, but its not all about wages and money. i think STL and PCGD have put it better than i, but its also very much about the devaluation of design (and our culture) itself. i want that to be just as clear