Help the (NBA) Mavericks design their new uniforms

[Sideline08]

That is all.

Agree ...contest over

[rmackman]

That is all.

Agree ...contest over

NOW it's over.

[goforbroke]

shunned? no. frowned upon? maybe. if it's a young cat out of college and dosent really know any better about the downsides of spec work and impacts on design industry then that's just what it is. congrats to him; i guess. one of my design heroes, Tin Bacic, does a lot of crowd sourcing though. he has a full time job as a designer and in his spare time crushes it on 99designs.com and the like. i wished he didnt obviously, i feel like he's losing a bit of himself and the rest of us on $200 logos, but the dude has my respect as an artist because he's just amazing at it. i guess the worst part of it is that he can do anything he wants in design and chooses that route. he's part of the problem, where people look at his work and say "i can get that quality on the cheap!" but he's a rare exception. most contest are disasters

See but that seems like sour grapes to me. Someone is doing it cheaper and as good (or lets say "good enough") as much higher priced work. You take offense to that because you think that he and people like him are taking ur business away, and making potential customers reconsider spending that much money if 99designs is "good enough". You're pissed at the designer for doing the work cheaper, and for the customer for being willing to accept lower quality for cheaper rather than paying for professional work. But really your just pissed that your losing business and that the profession is becoming unnecessary due to a combination of amateur talent and customer complacency.

It seems to me that Tin Bacic has it figured out. He's staying ahead of he curve. His talents have devalued to be honest... they're worth what people think its worth. BUT he's better than amatuer designers so he's stealing their business before they steal his. You have to adapt.

i wouldnt say he's so much taking business away from others (some ofcourse, but mostly clients who cant afford nor need Landor to create their identity), but he is leading to the cheapening the rates. and hurting himself in that process (big picture) if he could pay his bills and make a living on 99designs.com, he wouldn't have his full time gig to begin with.

i just dont think it's right that everyone should get on Tin's skill level, and then do the work for a fraction.

our whole stance against it probably sounds greedy, but its not all about wages and money. i think STL and PCGD have put it better than i, but its also very much about the devaluation of design (and our culture) itself. i want that to be just as clear

I'm sure it kills comedians that have worked for a decade perfecting their act when cats haz videos get more youtube hits then them... Or very cleverly written shows are getting out rating'd by the kardashians... but I mean who's fault is that. I absolutly hate when society accepts lower standards thinking its just as good. I'm totally with you on that. I appreciate high quality design as much as anyone on these boards. but, it happened. I wouldn't blame Tin or Cuban for that, they are just taking advantage of it. We live in a "Good Enough" society

[BrandMooreArt]

shunned? no. frowned upon? maybe. if it's a young cat out of college and dosent really know any better about the downsides of spec work and impacts on design industry then that's just what it is. congrats to him; i guess. one of my design heroes, Tin Bacic, does a lot of crowd sourcing though. he has a full time job as a designer and in his spare time crushes it on 99designs.com and the like. i wished he didnt obviously, i feel like he's losing a bit of himself and the rest of us on $200 logos, but the dude has my respect as an artist because he's just amazing at it. i guess the worst part of it is that he can do anything he wants in design and chooses that route. he's part of the problem, where people look at his work and say "i can get that quality on the cheap!" but he's a rare exception. most contest are disasters

See but that seems like sour grapes to me. Someone is doing it cheaper and as good (or lets say "good enough") as much higher priced work. You take offense to that because you think that he and people like him are taking ur business away, and making potential customers reconsider spending that much money if 99designs is "good enough". You're pissed at the designer for doing the work cheaper, and for the customer for being willing to accept lower quality for cheaper rather than paying for professional work. But really your just pissed that your losing business and that the profession is becoming unnecessary due to a combination of amateur talent and customer complacency.

It seems to me that Tin Bacic has it figured out. He's staying ahead of he curve. His talents have devalued to be honest... they're worth what people think its worth. BUT he's better than amatuer designers so he's stealing their business before they steal his. You have to adapt.

i wouldnt say he's so much taking business away from others (some ofcourse, but mostly clients who cant afford nor need Landor to create their identity), but he is leading to the cheapening the rates. and hurting himself in that process (big picture) if he could pay his bills and make a living on 99designs.com, he wouldn't have his full time gig to begin with.

i just dont think it's right that everyone should get on Tin's skill level, and then do the work for a fraction.

our whole stance against it probably sounds greedy, but its not all about wages and money. i think STL and PCGD have put it better than i, but its also very much about the devaluation of design (and our culture) itself. i want that to be just as clear

I'm sure it kills comedians that have worked for a decade perfecting their act when cats haz videos get more youtube hits then them... Or very cleverly written shows are getting out rating'd by the kardashians... but I mean who's fault is that. I absolutly hate when society accepts lower standards thinking its just as good. I'm totally with you on that. I appreciate high quality design as much as anyone on these boards. but, it happened. I wouldn't blame Tin or Cuban for that, they are just taking advantage of it. We live in a "Good Enough" society

maybe its part of the downside of being a creative person. "it's the nature of an artist to want to change things"

[Wilt]

As far as I understand, Cuban is asking for ideas. A devoted Mavs fan might come up with a better idea for an uniform that someone who's designing a wide variety of product packages on a daily basis. Cuban will pay the professionals to clean the design and translate it into the uniform fabric. So despite coming from an amateur, the final design doesn't need to turn out lousy.

This contest is for fans (i.e. people who already are spending their money on the Mavs), which are, by definition, people who don't expect a financial reward from their object of affection.

[GFB]

I normally wouldn't have a huge problem with this, but this isn't a minor league hockey team that is just squeaking by financially asking for alternate jersey designs from their fans. This is one of the richest people on the face of the earth asking for free work and offering up bragging rights as compensation. This is from the same guy who put $25,000 into a company about providing customized drawings of cats (google "I want to draw a cat for you") or invested 200k into a online toy rental company. But when it comes to a brand for his professional basketball team, he gets cheap? That's bull .

Let him put up a full rebrand contest on 99designs with 100k or hell, even 50k as the grand prize (5K if he just wants uniform ideas) and at least do crowdsourcing right.

[Island_Style]

shunned? no. frowned upon? maybe. if it's a young cat out of college and dosent really know any better about the downsides of spec work and impacts on design industry then that's just what it is. congrats to him; i guess. one of my design heroes, Tin Bacic, does a lot of crowd sourcing though. he has a full time job as a designer and in his spare time crushes it on 99designs.com and the like. i wished he didnt obviously, i feel like he's losing a bit of himself and the rest of us on $200 logos, but the dude has my respect as an artist because he's just amazing at it. i guess the worst part of it is that he can do anything he wants in design and chooses that route. he's part of the problem, where people look at his work and say "i can get that quality on the cheap!" but he's a rare exception. most contest are disasters

See but that seems like sour grapes to me. Someone is doing it cheaper and as good (or lets say "good enough") as much higher priced work. You take offense to that because you think that he and people like him are taking ur business away, and making potential customers reconsider spending that much money if 99designs is "good enough". You're pissed at the designer for doing the work cheaper, and for the customer for being willing to accept lower quality for cheaper rather than paying for professional work. But really your just pissed that your losing business and that the profession is becoming unnecessary due to a combination of amateur talent and customer complacency.

It seems to me that Tin Bacic has it figured out. He's staying ahead of he curve. His talents have devalued to be honest... they're worth what people think its worth. BUT he's better than amatuer designers so he's stealing their business before they steal his. You have to adapt.

i wouldnt say he's so much taking business away from others (some ofcourse, but mostly clients who cant afford nor need Landor to create their identity), but he is leading to the cheapening the rates. and hurting himself in that process (big picture) if he could pay his bills and make a living on 99designs.com, he wouldn't have his full time gig to begin with.

i just dont think it's right that everyone should get on Tin's skill level, and then do the work for a fraction.

our whole stance against it probably sounds greedy, but its not all about wages and money. i think STL and PCGD have put it better than i, but its also very much about the devaluation of design (and our culture) itself. i want that to be just as clear

I'm sure it kills comedians that have worked for a decade perfecting their act when cats haz videos get more youtube hits then them... Or very cleverly written shows are getting out rating'd by the kardashians... but I mean who's fault is that. I absolutly hate when society accepts lower standards thinking its just as good. I'm totally with you on that. I appreciate high quality design as much as anyone on these boards. but, it happened. I wouldn't blame Tin or Cuban for that, they are just taking advantage of it. We live in a "Good Enough" society

I guess the proper sum up would be the now old saying. Dont hate the player. Hate the game.

[Lee Noire]

After reading this thread from an outsiders perspective(not a pro designer) the biggest issue I have with this "contest" is the lack of compensation for the winner. Sure the work may not be as great as a pro design but if it gets chosen obviously its valuable to Cuban and its creator should benefit. An earlier poster mentioned taking your car to a mechanic that works out of, lets say his backyard, as opposed to taking it to a shop. The work may have cost less but it still cost something.

I'd argue that even though this contest may appeal more to amateurs, they still put lots of effort into what they do but just don't have much training or the best quality programs. None of that matters though if a multimillion(billion?) dollar owner wants the rights to your amateur design in hopes of making more money. If it were me, sure you can have my design but at least let a brother come to some games!

[phutmasterflex]

I wrote my response to this on my blog http://butattheendoftheday.com/2013/05/15/mark-cubans-uniform-contest-and-devaluing-the-value-of-his-teams-fanbase/

I agree with everyone. The compensation is not fair. A new uniform is a domino effect. That means more merchandise sales, more changes to advertisement, a rebrand to an international identity. Cuban will make more money from this rebrand and the designer will get little to nothing in fair compensation for the design.

[drdougfresh]

It's putting free spec work on a huge pedestal.

It may seem like greed to the non-designer, but let's put it this way: would you go to work every day if your boss told you there'd be a lottery at the end of the day to decide the one employee that gets paid for that day? From my viewpoint, that's pretty much how spec work goes. No two jobs are the same, obviously, but you get the idea. In this case, someone wins a pat on the back, not even a paycheck. Amateur or not, it sets a dangerous standard, IMO.

I hope CS85 wins it.

[JStamper]

Nothing wrong with this. I like Mark Cuban and I think this is a perfect way for fans to interact with a team.

There are too many design snobs sitting in their ivory towers. Don't worry, there will still be plenty of design work available outside of a single NBA team with a semi-crazy owner.

Also, the trick that sets apart true designers from amateurs is not necessarily their skill in Photoshop or Inkscape - it's their critical eye and attention to details. That's something you can't really teach.

I agree, no harm done here. Cuban is a little nuts but in a good way. He strikes me as anything but cheap. He's giving people a shot to live a dream. Not my dream but lots of folks would love to see their idea come to life. If that's your thing, go for it. If you make your living from design, go find one of the other thousands of teams that will pay for the same old same old. Nothing wrong with a little outside the box approach, in my humble opinion.

[TruColor]

I have NO problems if they wear this:

Did they ever wear those green uniforms or did you make them?

And honestly I like the uniforms they have now. I've always liked the home one especially. Just bring back the navy blue aways, maybe clean up the logo and call it a day.

Technically, they never wore any of those.

Here's what the former home and roads ACTUALLY looked like:

Those renditions previously posted actually look fairly nice, but they aren't accurate.

The ones I posted are.

[Jvelleu]

Already posted this in concepts but heres the logo for my entry

[AndrewG70]

Here's my submission to the blog. Because the compensation is practically nonexistent, I made sure to use their existing color scheme and logo package for my concept.

[phutmasterflex]

Nothing wrong with this. I like Mark Cuban and I think this is a perfect way for fans to interact with a team.

There are too many design snobs sitting in their ivory towers. Don't worry, there will still be plenty of design work available outside of a single NBA team with a semi-crazy owner.

Also, the trick that sets apart true designers from amateurs is not necessarily their skill in Photoshop or Inkscape - it's their critical eye and attention to details. That's something you can't really teach.

I agree, no harm done here. Cuban is a little nuts but in a good way. He strikes me as anything but cheap. He's giving people a shot to live a dream. Not my dream but lots of folks would love to see their idea come to life. If that's your thing, go for it. If you make your living from design, go find one of the other thousands of teams that will pay for the same old same old. Nothing wrong with a little outside the box approach, in my humble opinion.

Which is very true. But how does Cuban show gratitude to the designer that gives him a design that can net his brand millions of dollars and international recognizability? That's my problem. You can thank them better by giving them at least something.

[BrandMooreArt]

Nothing wrong with this. I like Mark Cuban and I think this is a perfect way for fans to interact with a team.

There are too many design snobs sitting in their ivory towers. Don't worry, there will still be plenty of design work available outside of a single NBA team with a semi-crazy owner.

Also, the trick that sets apart true designers from amateurs is not necessarily their skill in Photoshop or Inkscape - it's their critical eye and attention to details. That's something you can't really teach.

I agree, no harm done here. Cuban is a little nuts but in a good way. He strikes me as anything but cheap. He's giving people a shot to live a dream. Not my dream but lots of folks would love to see their idea come to life. If that's your thing, go for it. If you make your living from design, go find one of the other thousands of teams that will pay for the same old same old. Nothing wrong with a little outside the box approach, in my humble opinion.

Which is very true. But how does Cuban show gratitude to the designer that gives him a design that can net his brand millions of dollars and international recognizability? That's my problem. You can thank them better by giving them at least something.

exactly. the value of this to the team is what some are missing, i think. (thats a great piece you wrote by the way). the Mavs have little risk in this game but are set to reap all the benefits under the guise of "recognition" and "bragging rights" and maybe "some tickets, if i deem you worthy enough". thats spec work in a nutshell.

little has been said about the client-designer relationship and how that is lost through contest like this. i would like to go on further about that, but im not quite sure how i want to word it yet. just remember, the "winning" design will be chosen by Cuban. he's the guy calling the shots here.

[Lights Out]

Here's what the former home and roads ACTUALLY looked like:

Those renditions previously posted actually look fairly nice, but they aren't accurate.

The ones I posted are.

The wordmarks on those don't look quite right either - the ones they wore had a thinner, more condensed font:

[BrandMooreArt]

^ Cuban says he's smart enough to pick a design that works for his team, so despite the number of flaws in those 2 jerseys (which don't matter to most, i know) how many think they should skip the contest and go back to those??

[29texan]

To the people bringing up the old blue and greens from the 80's and 90's.... NO!

They bring back some pretty bad memories, man.

[STL FANATIC]

$99 designs isn't bad for the winner of the contests, though, it's bad for those who spend their time and don't get chosen. It's everyone's choice to participate, of course.

There's a decent case to be made that the companies spending $400 to see many designs from a lot of amateur's and picking one might be better off choosing one designer who's portfolio they trust and working closely with him to get the right logo.

$400 isn't a ton. It doesn't cover that many hours, so it's not like they can get revision after revision. But you could certainly get a good logo for that price.

It's definitely about the designer you work with, not the number of designs you see.

But again, it's all free market, and people can do as they choose. But if you're not winning those contests, and you're actually good at designing, you're wasting a lot of valuable hours on essentially nothing.

All of that said. I'm strapped for cash right now. I'm investigating means to find some freelance projects. I'm considering reviewing that board to see if the risk might be worth the reward. But it's something I'll consider very carefully, because my time designing is valuable time.

I like to think I have good mix of idealism and reality, and operate decently within the environment.