Help the (NBA) Mavericks design their new uniforms

[rcb05]

I can see how this is a bit of a slap in the face for those of you who do this for a living. However, for amateurs like me, it's a rare opportunity to actually have a chance at your design being considered (even if the payoff is minimal). Here's my submission.

Home:

Road:

Alternate:

[goforbroke]

$99 designs isn't bad for the winner of the contests, though, it's bad for those who spend their time and don't get chosen. It's everyone's choice to participate, of course.

There's a decent case to be made that the companies spending $400 to see many designs from a lot of amateur's and picking one might be better off choosing one designer who's portfolio they trust and working closely with him to get the right logo.

$400 isn't a ton. It doesn't cover that many hours, so it's not like they can get revision after revision. But you could certainly get a good logo for that price.

It's definitely about the designer you work with, not the number of designs you see.

But again, it's all free market, and people can do as they choose. But if you're not winning those contests, and you're actually good at designing, you're wasting a lot of valuable hours on essentially nothing.

All of that said. I'm strapped for cash right now. I'm investigating means to find some freelance projects. I'm considering reviewing that board to see if the risk might be worth the reward. But it's something I'll consider very carefully, because my time designing is valuable time.

I like to think I have good mix of idealism and reality, and operate decently within the environment.

If you are a good enough designer and listen to the clients' needs, you will win the contensts. Not every single one, but the more you sign up for the more likely you will win.

Let me ask you a question about your business: What happens if you are hired for a job but no matter what you can not make a design that the client is happy with. Idk why that would be the case but what if it happens, do you sitll get paid for your time?

[GFB]

$99 designs isn't bad for the winner of the contests, though, it's bad for those who spend their time and don't get chosen. It's everyone's choice to participate, of course.

There's a decent case to be made that the companies spending $400 to see many designs from a lot of amateur's and picking one might be better off choosing one designer who's portfolio they trust and working closely with him to get the right logo.

$400 isn't a ton. It doesn't cover that many hours, so it's not like they can get revision after revision. But you could certainly get a good logo for that price.

It's definitely about the designer you work with, not the number of designs you see.

But again, it's all free market, and people can do as they choose. But if you're not winning those contests, and you're actually good at designing, you're wasting a lot of valuable hours on essentially nothing.

All of that said. I'm strapped for cash right now. I'm investigating means to find some freelance projects. I'm considering reviewing that board to see if the risk might be worth the reward. But it's something I'll consider very carefully, because my time designing is valuable time.

I like to think I have good mix of idealism and reality, and operate decently within the environment.

If you are a good enough designer and listen to the clients' needs, you will win the contensts. Not every single one, but the more you sign up for the more likely you will win.

Let me ask you a question about your business: What happens if you are hired for a job but no matter what you can not make a design that the client is happy with. Idk why that would be the case but what if it happens, do you sitll get paid for your time?

Of course he would still get paid. If you hired someone to paint your house or take a family picture or cook you dinner and you didn't like the way it turned out, you would still have to pay them. If you were unhappy with his services, you may not use them the next time you have a project, but hiring someone to do a job and not paying them because they didn't meet your subjective criteria isn't in the "fair play" rule book.

Also, you could be the most talented designer in a contest and have the best entry and still not get picked to win because the contest holder was a dope. You could also come up with an original entry very close to the contest holder's vision, miss the mark by a little, have someone else come in and "fix" your idea and win and now you're left with nothing. I've seen it happen first hand. Contests are a giant crap shoot.

There is so much wrong with every one of your posts. Please stop posting.

[vmd9]

First of all, nobody is forcing you to enter. If you don't like the idea of this contest simply don't participate. As a designer I personally think it would be cool to have a hand in creating something for an NBA team regardless of monetary gain. Not everything is about money. When I was first starting out I did a lot of designs for schools and teams that didn't necessarily pay much if anything. In the end it proved to be good experiences and gave me awesome work to build on. I became a designer because I love to be creative. If money motivated my career choice I certainly would have chosen a different line of work. Also the people complaining are the same ones who post and critique concepts around here. How much money are you making from that?

[STL FANATIC]

I don't think I've posted a concept around here in over 10 years. Aside from that, however, there's a big difference between designing for free to satisfy your own creativity and designing for free for someone who's going to in turn profit from it.

To take it a step further, we have ALL designed for free or cheap for people and causes we believe in. Nobody is saying you must break the bank on every job.

But if the recipient of your design is trying to do just that, they ought to be compensating you as well.

[phutmasterflex]

First of all, nobody is forcing you to enter. If you don't like the idea of this contest simply don't participate. As a designer I personally think it would be cool to have a hand in creating something for an NBA team regardless of monetary gain. Not everything is about money. When I was first starting out I did a lot of designs for schools and teams that didn't necessarily pay much if anything. In the end it proved to be good experiences and gave me awesome work to build on. I became a designer because I love to be creative. If money motivated my career choice I certainly would have chosen a different line of work. Also the people complaining are the same ones who post and critique concepts around here. How much money are you making from that?

The idea is fine. The problem is that Cuban should be giving something more than just potential tickets. As much as giving the opportunity should be enough, it's way too norm that Cuban really isn't doing anything special

[BrandMooreArt]

$99 designs isn't bad for the winner of the contests, though, it's bad for those who spend their time and don't get chosen. It's everyone's choice to participate, of course.

There's a decent case to be made that the companies spending $400 to see many designs from a lot of amateur's and picking one might be better off choosing one designer who's portfolio they trust and working closely with him to get the right logo.

$400 isn't a ton. It doesn't cover that many hours, so it's not like they can get revision after revision. But you could certainly get a good logo for that price.

It's definitely about the designer you work with, not the number of designs you see.

But again, it's all free market, and people can do as they choose. But if you're not winning those contests, and you're actually good at designing, you're wasting a lot of valuable hours on essentially nothing.

All of that said. I'm strapped for cash right now. I'm investigating means to find some freelance projects. I'm considering reviewing that board to see if the risk might be worth the reward. But it's something I'll consider very carefully, because my time designing is valuable time.

I like to think I have good mix of idealism and reality, and operate decently within the environment.

If you are a good enough designer and listen to the clients' needs, you will win the contensts. Not every single one, but the more you sign up for the more likely you will win.

Let me ask you a question about your business: What happens if you are hired for a job but no matter what you can not make a design that the client is happy with. Idk why that would be the case but what if it happens, do you sitll get paid for your time?

Of course he would still get paid. If you hired someone to paint your house or take a family picture or cook you dinner and you didn't like the way it turned out, you would still have to pay them. If you were unhappy with his services, you may not use them the next time you have a project, but hiring someone to do a job and not paying them because they didn't meet your subjective criteria isn't in the "fair play" rule book.

Also, you could be the most talented designer in a contest and have the best entry and still not get picked to win because the contest holder was a dope. You could also come up with an original entry very close to the contest holder's vision, miss the mark by a little, have someone else come in and "fix" your idea and win and now you're left with nothing. I've seen it happen first hand. Contests are a giant crap shoot.

Matt nailed it here. you can't assume that the subjectively or even obvious best design will win. the client is in complete control and there is little interaction or conversation between the designers and them. they're really not even a client, but a customer in that regard. one i entered myself was for the Les Paul Foundation after he passed. that was a special one to me because of the subject and i did a decent hand drawn logo for the contest. i thought it had a good chance to win that one. but heres what the client chose: http://www.lespaulfoundation.org/

i've never had a client walk away after being unsatisfied, but i've had projects drag on and on for multiple reasons, mostly the client changing their minds even after we've had a discussion about direction and concept. so, the more time i put in the more i get paid and i make it clear that those are the rules. but if i myself were frustrated enough to kill the project i would, with a 50% Kill Fee (make sure you have a contract) or if they wanted to kill it then the contract kill fee still stands and i doubt there would be any hard feelings. i'd even be willing to recommend another designer to complete it if i couldnt.

First of all, nobody is forcing you to enter. If you don't like the idea of this contest simply don't participate. As a designer I personally think it would be cool to have a hand in creating something for an NBA team regardless of monetary gain. Not everything is about money. When I was first starting out I did a lot of designs for schools and teams that didn't necessarily pay much if anything. In the end it proved to be good experiences and gave me awesome work to build on. I became a designer because I love to be creative. If money motivated my career choice I certainly would have chosen a different line of work. Also the people complaining are the same ones who post and critique concepts around here. How much money are you making from that?

by designers not participating dosent mean it donsent hurt the industry when others do. it dosent matter whos putting fuel in the machine, the point is that it's getting filled. ill say again this is not just a monetary issue with me either. its as much about devaluing design itself as the wages. for a great oppotunity or to help someone out who cant afford my usual logo rate, i will adjust accordingly for them. the Mavs do not fall into that. if you think that winning this contest will be a big break for someone its not going to happen. some work may come after, but this won't launch you into the sports industry. if it works for them their competitors will follow the same system, not hire the guy that won the Mav's contest.

the difference between personal projects and entering a contest is moral and value. moral as it hurts the design industry (ive said that a million times now i feel) and its not who i want to be. its not how i want to spend my time. its not fair that designers/providers take all the risk for a pathetic "reward" while the client reaps millions of benefits. and like you said "i love to create things". and through those things i attract the projects i want to work on. i get to set the rules, the brief, the time table, and do things my own way. for some crazy and lucky reason, there are people willing to pay for something very close to that. and pay enough so that i can do it full time

[jgladding]

I kind of like this one. I like the use of neon green; neon colors are definitely a hot trend right now. I want to see a brand new logo - but I like the way you incorporated the current logo and the texas outline...

[eliasrappaport]

My entry...

Here is the thought behind my design:

As Mr. Cuban quoted Steve Jobs, "Everything is a Remix." Therefore, my uniform is designed to be a true remix that adheres to the heart of who the Dallas Mavericks are. When you look at classic teams in the NBA such as the Lakers, the Celtics, the Knicks, the Bulls...and yes, I'll say it, even the Miami Heat, they all have one thing in common. They never strayed far from their true identity. They may have made minor modifications or modernizations over time, but they never made drastic overhauls, thus creating long-lasting brand recognition. You, your father, and your grandfather should all be able to easily identify with, and garner positive emotion from, your favorite team. Sports are rare in that fandom is often passed down from one generation to the next, whereas your favorite paper towel or soda brand is usually a personal preference. There's typically a deeper connection with sports teams.

From 1980-2001 the Dallas Mavericks used a Royal Blue and Kelly Green combination. It was clean, visually appealing, and it had the makings of a classic uniform despite the fact that the team performed poorly on the court. Since 2001, the Mavs have had a more modern, albeit darker, look coupled with success that culminated with two NBA Finals appearances and one NBA Championship. My goal was that these uniforms merge the nostalgia of Mavs fans who have been there from the beginning with the winning aura of today's Maverick teams.

These uniforms employ a slightly lighter blue and green than the original 1980s color palette, the font has been faintly modified from the early 1990s styling, but the cut of the jersey, the overall feel, and the small star above the player names is in line with today's Dallas Mavericks.

I brought back the old cowboy hat logo, stylized the numbers to be more readable than they currently are, and I used the current alternate logo to create a brand new alternate logo better reflecting the Maverick name. The alternate logo depicts a "Pair of Aces" to be worn on the waistband of the shorts. Instead of the letter A, each card has a D or an M for Dallas Mavericks. The star on the back of the jersey is now featured in place of what would be a spade, diamond, heart, or club. In the center of the front card, you will see your old horse alternate logo.

These uniforms now feature the name Mavericks, a cowboy hat, cards, stars, and a horse. I hope that these five symbols together will represent the city of Dallas, Texas proudly in the way that they would want to be remembered.

Thank you.

Sincerely,

Ryan Mackman

Beautiful. Love everything about these. Card logo is awesome too.

[29texan]

And this will be the only thing I show here...

[Sterling84v2.0]

Hey Lads.

Firstly lemme just say that this is me. Somehow I locked myself out of my account and I've been here so long the system tried to help me reset the password through an extinct email. I'm lazy so I made a new account. Maybe a mod could assist me with regaining my seniority/privileges at some point. No biggie.

Secondly, I'm really impressed with the discourse on this topic. Good points for the most part. And I would tend to agree with most of them. This "contest" or call to action even......doesn't it require a firm prize to be a contest? It is a great, troubling, and non story all at once. There's an argument (a strong one) to be made against spec work. That's kind of a "duh", But on the other hand we are all often guilty of getting up at arms for our particular cause and ignoring that this kind of thing happens all the time in every other industry. There's a market for off brand drugs, and cover bands and mowing your own lawn and cleaning your own pool and the list goes on and on. So..I think Cuban got it 75% correct here. Sure, buck the system, go around NBA Properties and engage with the fans. Just.....write a note that acknowledges the situation, and agree to a "what if" fixed compensation.

I wanted to write here for 2 reasons today. 1) I worked up a concept. I couldnt' help it. The greatest thing Cuban did here was show his hand and alert people that he's interested. Most teams never do that until they are well on their way toward a new brand. It's simply cool to know this information in advance and the temptation was too much for me to ignore. I will not however post the concepts on his blog and officially "enter" this contest purely on principle. I will make every effort otherwise to get it seen. But I've registered it. It's my property and so it would need to be purchased at some quasi fair market value.

2) I wanted to add another possible reason as to why MC might have thought "free" artwork was appriopriate. I haven't head this rationalization anywhere but bear with me. Scenario: Team wants new logo. Hires firm. Pays firm. Gets new logo. THat's one model and MAYBE it's the old model. Nowadays each league has either their own IP/Design wing...NFL Properties etc....OR they have relationships with official manufacturers (Nike, Reebok) who have their own design shops. When these teams are rebranded "in house" and I'll use that term to extend beyond the team's marketing dept, but to the league or manufacturer....I'm not sure cash actually changes hands. It's what we used to call in the ole accounting world "intercompany billing". It's all on the ledger but not in the sense of an owner paying for these services. If Reebok designs your logo are you going to really pay them? They've got staff for that and THEY pay YOU to be the official retailer of (for instance) the NHL. So yes, Reebok has designers on staff and they accrue billable hours working on this project and it might total a quarter million in value for all I know (retail street value in terms of paying your employees). But these are all sunk costs that you roll into part of doing business with that league. In essence the team is paying for design by accepting slightly less money from the manufacturer for exclusive rights to make their gear. Make sense? I'm saying it's entirely possible to that half the teams in the major sports are NOT paying for design in the traditional sense. Something to think about. And if you wanted to extrapolate that further to crazy billionaire logic? Adidas or whomever passes those fees they pay the NBA down to the customers for product. So we (the fans) always pay for the design one way or another anyway you slice it. Perhaps its a no-brainer for him given that.

[Sterling84v2.0]

As for these concepts? The Mavs horse sucks. Always has. Looks like its being sucked down a toilet. And unless I am mistaken Maverick as a term always did and always should apply to cattle. So.......enter steer skull. Work in a basketball (naturally NBA...gawd) a star for Texas (gawd again) and my favorite part the hidden M (which kind of ties into their current scheme) in the nasal cavity.

Uniforms? Yikes. only because I have to. I love the current Mavs unis. The palette at least. And you JUST won a title in them so there's equity there. Yes, they are a little spikey and random and that thing on the butt is stupid. But I don't think a tear down is in order. So if they MUST get new unis my idea is just to put Adidas to the test and see how they do with their sublimation and matching that up across different panels of fabric stitched together. Here you go hot shots! Good luck. Why the logo sublimation? Cause in every other sport the logo IS the identity. On a football helmet, on a ballcap or hockey sweater. The logo gets the prime realestate. In hoops it's a 2" afterthought on the hem of the shorts. And that's a function of a sleeveless pantless outfit. Nobody's fault. So again, if they must? I say, make the logo the uniform. And I couldnt' center it or the M would have been firmly front and center on the crotch. So it plays here to the side for some assymetry. and that's that.

[Conrad.]

great work on the logo, Sterling. but yea, like u say, the unis seem an afterthought.

it's good to see you back around, btw. always respect your knowledge and opinion.

[ColeJ]

Absolutely gorgeous. Good enough to make me scrap my own ideas, if only your concept were blue and green. I yearn for the Stars and Mavs to both wear green at the AAC.

[BrandMooreArt]

good stuff Sterling, i was scared at first thinking you were entering into the crapshoot. i'm with you, i like the current unis, but that concept is pretty sweet. well done

[rcb05]

I kind of like this one. I like the use of neon green; neon colors are definitely a hot trend right now. I want to see a brand new logo - but I like the way you incorporated the current logo and the texas outline...

My only fear in introducing lime green into the color scheme is that it will inevitably lead to this:

[Sterling84v2.0]

Nope. Can't do it. Fear not. But since I did the work I won't break my own arm trying to pat myself on the back. It's complicated right? I'm not too proud to solicit having done the work in advance. If it weren't for solicitation and "contests" I'd have never even had a paying gig with a real team. We all do what we think is best, both in the moment for us, and for other in the big picture. If someone out there thinks this is their one big chance? I can't fault em.

And like I said, I have my suspicions that this is not Cuban choosing no payment over payment. I don't want to put too much of a rosy glow on it, but I suspect it's involve the fans or don't and the finances are secondary. Would have to know more about the particulars to comment any further.

As for me? I'm lucky enough to have been to the "mountain top" and as great as it is...you just end up wanting more. And then the teams don't line up at your door one by one begging for your genius. So you compromise and do another spec...or offer a discount all the name of "bragging rights" or "getting your name out there". it never ends. Sometimes sadly it's just business. And so it is with this Mavs project. No entry for me. I might tweet him every day til the end of May. But no entering.

PS - Let's not forget either? That I really enjoyed working on this. 3-4 days of being in the zone after a long absence? Getting feedback from friends? It's fun. I got my "money's worth" out of it if you will. And that gets lost. A client ASKING you to do work for free is different....maybe only by 5%....than this situation. At least that's the way I read it.

[mattb6]

where do you submit these at? just post it in the comments on his blog?

[goforbroke]

$99 designs isn't bad for the winner of the contests, though, it's bad for those who spend their time and don't get chosen. It's everyone's choice to participate, of course.

There's a decent case to be made that the companies spending $400 to see many designs from a lot of amateur's and picking one might be better off choosing one designer who's portfolio they trust and working closely with him to get the right logo.

$400 isn't a ton. It doesn't cover that many hours, so it's not like they can get revision after revision. But you could certainly get a good logo for that price.

It's definitely about the designer you work with, not the number of designs you see.

But again, it's all free market, and people can do as they choose. But if you're not winning those contests, and you're actually good at designing, you're wasting a lot of valuable hours on essentially nothing.

All of that said. I'm strapped for cash right now. I'm investigating means to find some freelance projects. I'm considering reviewing that board to see if the risk might be worth the reward. But it's something I'll consider very carefully, because my time designing is valuable time.

I like to think I have good mix of idealism and reality, and operate decently within the environment.

If you are a good enough designer and listen to the clients' needs, you will win the contensts. Not every single one, but the more you sign up for the more likely you will win.

Let me ask you a question about your business: What happens if you are hired for a job but no matter what you can not make a design that the client is happy with. Idk why that would be the case but what if it happens, do you sitll get paid for your time?

Of course he would still get paid. If you hired someone to paint your house or take a family picture or cook you dinner and you didn't like the way it turned out, you would still have to pay them. If you were unhappy with his services, you may not use them the next time you have a project, but hiring someone to do a job and not paying them because they didn't meet your subjective criteria isn't in the "fair play" rule book.

Also, you could be the most talented designer in a contest and have the best entry and still not get picked to win because the contest holder was a dope. You could also come up with an original entry very close to the contest holder's vision, miss the mark by a little, have someone else come in and "fix" your idea and win and now you're left with nothing. I've seen it happen first hand. Contests are a giant crap shoot.

There is so much wrong with every one of your posts. Please stop posting.

Firstly I wasnt making an assumption it was a Legit question about how different people run their business. There have been plenty of time when i was hired to do work and because the client and I couldn't see eye-to-eye we parted ways without money changing hands at all. I guarantee my clients satisfaction so if for any reason they don't use my work or aren't happy with it they don't pay. I take that risk and I'm happy to do it.

Secondly, it's simple math.. The more contents you enter the more chances you have to win. Absolutly true that you won't win them all, absolutly true that you may take a design to the 1 yard line and someone else will run it in and take credit, very unfair when that happens. But that's how it works. Not a fair business.. It's client driven, at the end of the day the client is going to be happy with the design they chose and its up to you to make sure that happens, and if you don't for whatever reason you don't deserve the money. But if you aren't willing to take that gamble then don't enter the contest. It's a contest! It's a game! It's not a hired job! You can't look at it like that.

Finally, I've been posting on these boards for 8 years. I don't have any intention of stopping now.

[C's]

I'd rather the new identity be designed by fans than by those drones at adidas or whoever.

My god though, people really have a boner for that blue-green color scheme. Why, I have no clue.