St. John's University new school identity [Updated]

[letsgomets1212]

So I know few on this board will have much interest in this, since my school isn't some huge nationally known school. However I go to St. John's University in New York City, and the school recently unveiled an updated logo. I'm curious what people in this community think of it, and whether it's an upgrade or not. I think it's a huge upgrade (albeit a bit generic), but the students seem to think it's not, so I'm interested what actual graphic designers think of it. Thanks!

http://www.stjohns.edu/ps_uni_130626_new_brand.news_item@digest.stjohns.edu%2ffaculty%2fps_uni_130626_new_brand.xml?context_date=6/28/2013

http://www.stjohns.edu/about/marcom/imagestudy.stj

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[STL FANATIC]

Firstly, you're always welcome to post anything design related here, whether it seems like it will interest many or a few. If it's on the topic of design, there's a decent chance they'll be at least some discussion on it.

As a side note, while St. John's may be small, their biggest program is high profile enough that for the audience here (mostly if not entirely sports fans), I think it has plenty of name recognition.

As for the design, it's absolutely an upgrade.

While I wish more schools would try lowercase letters after the first letter of the word, going entirely lowercase just seems very dated, and in this era doesn't suggest something overly prestigious as I'm sure St. John's is. So the move to uppercase is a good thing.

The crest is also a nice simplification, not that the old one was terribly complex. But still, the new one is well done. I do wish the cross or separation lines (I assume it's both), were a little thicker (but not as thick as the old one), but that's minor. I also like the change of color at the top of the crest.

As for navy vs. black—I don't know what the school colors are. They should be consistent with those, but since I don't know, I can't judge. Either blue or black is fine.

The composition of the old logo is nice with the crest sitting next to "st." and above "john's," but the simple truth is that doesn't lend itself to certain uses, so the new lockup makes more sense from a practical stand point.

Lastly, never trust the immediate reaction of the masses in matters of design. They're not always wrong, but they're rarely right. And when they are right, it's usually not for the right reasons. People do not like change. And in matters of design—especially to cultural or educational institutions with "tradition"—they tend to immediate jump towards the notion of blasphemy.

Often times the truth is that the change was a good one. So good that in months or a year, they not only will be used to it, they'll realize how silly they were being.

[letsgomets1212]

Thanks for the informative and welcoming reply

The old logo looked really bad on t-shirts, it made us look like a second-rate university that got its little cousin to make graphics for. I think the new look really exudes a bit more professionalism. Also I think students are just having an overall negative reaction to anything the school does these days (Google if you're interested), but I agree that in time people will come to really like the change, as it is clearly an upgrade that will look much better on school merchandise.

I do feel the need to address one point though, the blue vs. black point. This seems to be the biggest point of contention with students in terms of the logo, and for good reason. Blue simply is not a school color. Our team is the St. John's Red Storm, so red is 100% and always has been a school color. However the secondary color has always been black, so the change to blue is jarring for many. The school only announced the logo today as part of a large, vaguely outlined "New Brand Identity". It's unclear if this blue is going to make its way to other school outlets, such as the sports teams. I suppose time will tell.

[SDX]

Really nice upgrade.

[pcgd]

Looks like the cross was kept thin to connect with the shell. Nice touch if you ask me.

I never saw their logo before but I do kinda dig the banner on the old. Understand why it's gone but it was nice.

[mattb6]

the all upper case is better than all lower case

[letsgomets1212]

Looks like the cross was kept thin to connect with the shell. Nice touch if you ask me.

Wow I didn't even notice that. Now that I've seen it, I can't unsee it, and I love it. I agree, it's a really nice touch, it makes the cross on the old logo look really bad.

the all upper case is better than all lower case

This was the thing that made me the happiest with the new logo. The lowercase letters on the old just didn't work for me, nor did the fact that the word university was in caps. Also, all of the elements in that logo seemed to be randomly placed, they just wanted the dot on St to line up with the J so badly that the logo feels sloppy.

[RyanMcD29]

I like the design, but I hope they keep the black rather than insert navy. I've always thought of St. John's as being a red and black school and I think it helps them stand out in a city/area where a lot of schools use a shade of blue

[BrandMooreArt]

i think this is really great. it keeps the same concept as before but executes it better and with better color. every decision that was made here was done by a skilled and knowledgable designer/team. very nice

[JCRGraphix]

I think that changing the black to navy was not a good move.

[letsgomets1212]

I think that changing the black to navy was not a good move.

I would have to agree with you, that's the only thing holding me back from truly loving the logo, because it's a big step to change the school colors. If this color change filters down to our sports teams I'll be very disappointed, red and blue is a color combo I've never really liked. Red and black is much more powerful.

Here's a quick mockup to show how it could look with black.

[JCRGraphix]

I think that changing the black to navy was not a good move.

I would have to agree with you, that's the only thing holding me back from truly loving the logo, because it's a big step to change the school colors. If this color change filters down to our sports teams I'll be very disappointed, red and blue is a color combo I've never really liked. Red and black is much more powerful.

Here's a quick mockup to show how it could look with black.

Very nice. That looks much better.

[crashcarson15]

Didn't St. John's use navy as their accent color back around the turn of the century?

[cajunaggie08]

Didn't St. John's use navy as their accent color back around the turn of the century?

They did. This was the logo they used back when i first started following college basketball.

[letsgomets1212]

Interesting development here. Looks like enough students complained about the blue, and it seems the school has listened and updated the logo. Here is the new new official logo - thoughts?

[STL FANATIC]

To my eyes (and my photoshop eyedropper), that's still navy blue, albeit a darker one.

Did you come across something stating the change or just that image?

It looks nice either way. I'd just hope they go all-in with navy or black instead of using a little of both.

[letsgomets1212]

To my eyes (and my photoshop eyedropper), that's still navy blue, albeit a darker one.

Did you come across something stating the change or just that image?

It looks nice either way. I'd just hope they go all-in with navy or black instead of using a little of both.

It does indeed seem like a very dark navy. It seems like they might have gone for a compromise.

And no nothing stated the change, but all the graphics in the press release were very clearly changed from what they were before.

You can see more of the changes in the logos on this page, which previously had the navy logo: http://www.stjohns.edu/about/marcom/imagestudy.stj

[STL FANATIC]

It would appear St. John's has made the decision to replace black with navy across the board. I really don't have a preference on one over the other, but the decision to be consistent is a very good one.

http://news.sportslogos.net/2013/09/18/st-johns-basketball-releases-2-sets-of-uniforms-for-2013-14-season/

More at the link (the mothership).