Baseball in Montréal

[tigerslionspistonshabs]

I think it's too soon still. The only team with any immediate chance of relocating is the Rays, and I don't see them leaving until the stadium situation becomes absolutely dire.

[cmm]

Baseball would absolutely still work in Montreal. The Expos still have strong support in the region, including a grassroots effort by fans to promote the return of baseball to Montreal as well as a similar group founded by former Expo Warren Cromartie. Montreal also has a long history as a baseball market that dates back to even before the Expos - after all, Jackie Robinson, Roberto Clemente, and Roy Campanella among others played for the minor-league Montreal Royals.

The original Expos were killed in part due to greed on the part of the players' union and the MLB and also due to the incompetence of Jeff Loria and Omar Minaya, not because of a lack of fans. When the league pulls underhanded tricks such as moving most of the home games to San Juan and banning the team from making call-ups in September during a playoff race while publicly sabre-rattling for contraction, it's not hard to see why people stopped going to games by the end. Montreal deserves a second chance with a real franchise and real ownership, not the :censored:show of the Loria/Selig era.

I could definitely see the Rays moving to Montreal, considering owner Stuart Sternberg has admitted to considering it, while also being "pressed" by the league to do so, and now St. Petersburg's mayor has finally backed off on the outrageous lease that has kept the Rays mired in the outdated, dumpy Trop.

As a Mets fan, I'm obliged to dislike Omar Minaya. But I disagree that he was to blame for the Expos' demise. Yes, he pulled off what turned out to be one of the worst trades in MLB history (Bartolo Colon for Brandon Phillips, Cliff Lee, and Grady Sizemore). But that was in June of 2002. At that time, the Expos were still in the race and everyone thought they would be contracted after the season (it wasn't until August that MLB agreed not to contract a team). What good were minor league prospects going to do for the Expos if they ceased to exist?

The lack of September call-ups was a terrible blow, but again, that wasn't Minaya's fault. That directive came from the owner of the Expos, Major League Baseball. The other owners didn't want to pay the extra money to help the competition.

The Expos' last season in Montreal (2004) was terrible. But the Expos did finish over .500 in 2002 and hung around in the wild card race in 2003 until fading in September. Blame MLB for the extra travel to San Juan and the lack of September call-ups. But I'd say Omar did a decent job in Montreal.

[ninersdd]

2003 they seemed very legit. My 100 win Giants went 0-7 against them that year I believe. Too bad they couldn't get extra help in the last month.

[Sport]

The Expos have more winning seasons in the last 20 years than the Pirates do. They were mostly bad during their existence, but it was possible to play winning baseball in Montreal.

[TheOldRoman]

The Expos have more winning seasons in the last 20 years than the Pirates do. They were mostly bad during their existence, but it was possible to play winning baseball in Montreal.

I mean, come on. Literally every single other team has more winning seasons over the last 20 years than the Pirates. That doesn't say anything.

I hope Montreal gets another team someday soon. It's a shame what Selig and Loria did to that franchise. With what people have said about demographics, it certainly doesn't look encouraging for the team to step in and get immediate fan support. That being said, if there is an interested ownership group with a paid-for stadium on deck, Montreal will get a team eventually. Hopefully there is enough nostalgia among the French-speakers to give the team a boost and pull their younger kids into the team, but it would certainly need a proactive ownership group to saturate the French media and build from the ground up. Basically, do the exact opposite of what Loria did.

[Sport]

The Expos have more winning seasons in the last 20 years than the Pirates do. They were mostly bad during their existence, but it was possible to play winning baseball in Montreal.

I mean, come on. Literally every single other team has more winning seasons over the last 20 years than the Pirates. That doesn't say anything.

Yeah but the Expos haven't played since 2004. That was the point.

[tigerslionspistonshabs]

The Expos have more winning seasons in the last 20 years than the Pirates do. They were mostly bad during their existence, but it was possible to play winning baseball in Montreal.

I mean, come on. Literally every single other team has more winning seasons over the last 20 years than the Pirates. That doesn't say anything.

Yeah but the Expos haven't played since 2004. That was the point.

Lol...it's ok buddy, I got it.

[BigMac12]

Is there land that could support a new ballpark?

[TheOldRoman]

The Expos have more winning seasons in the last 20 years than the Pirates do. They were mostly bad during their existence, but it was possible to play winning baseball in Montreal.

I mean, come on. Literally every single other team has more winning seasons over the last 20 years than the Pirates. That doesn't say anything.

Yeah but the Expos haven't played since 2004. That was the point.

I realize that, but when the criteria for "winning baseball" is to have one winning season out of 11 years, you're setting the bar pretty low. The Expos didn't make the playoffs in those 11 seasons (with an obvious asterisk for the 1994 team). The Expos hadn't been a really good team since 1996, when the baseball landscape started to change and smaller market teams became have-nots. I also think a Montreal team could win, but it would be much harder for them to do so than it was twenty years ago. I think they would probably be on equal footing with Minnesota (post-Metrodome) where they could keep their top players, but they absolutely would have to have a top farm system to have a chance to compete regularly.

[jigokusabre]

The Expos have more winning seasons in the last 20 years than the Pirates do. They were mostly bad during their existence, but it was possible to play winning baseball in Montreal.

My grandmother's bridge club has as many winning seasons as the Pirates over the last 20 years.

I realize that, but when the criteria for "winning baseball" is to have one winning season out of 11 years, you're setting the bar pretty low. The Expos didn't make the playoffs in those 11 seasons (with an obvious asterisk for the 1994 team). The Expos hadn't been a really good team since 1996, when the baseball landscape started to change and smaller market teams became have-nots. I also think a Montreal team could win, but it would be much harder for them to do so than it was twenty years ago. I think they would probably be on equal footing with Minnesota (post-Metrodome) where they could keep their top players, but they absolutely would have to have a top farm system to have a chance to compete regularly.

Competing on a low budget is as easy now as it has been in a long time.

[Gothamite]

As a Mets fan, I'm obliged to dislike Omar Minaya. But I disagree that he was to blame for the Expos' demise. Yes, he pulled off what turned out to be one of the worst trades in MLB history (Bartolo Colon for Brandon Phillips, Cliff Lee, and Grady Sizemore). But that was in June of 2002. At that time, the Expos were still in the race and everyone thought they would be contracted after the season (it wasn't until August that MLB agreed not to contract a team). What good were minor league prospects going to do for the Expos if they ceased to exist?

I think you're vastly over-estimating the thought at the time that contraction was actually going to happen.

Selig has never been one to use his power unilaterally. He's a consensus builder. And the thought that he would somehow steamroller the players' union and contract two teams all on his own with no notice was laughable even at the time.

[Gothamite]

There is still a tougher sell if a team came back...Free Agents.

Why is that a hard sell on its own? Montreal was, iirc, a good place to play. I remember hearing story after story about how much fun visiting players had in the city's... nightlife.

The Canadian dollar isn't as weak as it used to be.

If the team is competitive, I don't see them particularly struggling to attract free agents.

[BigBubba]

On Canada Baseball Day, the Blue Jays has a five-or-so minute-long little video about the Expos playing on the JumboTron before the game. They had some former players and staff, including Tim Raines, talk about how much they loved the city. And why not? It's a big city with lots to do and some cool history. And there's not that much of a language barrier.

[cmm]

As a Mets fan, I'm obliged to dislike Omar Minaya. But I disagree that he was to blame for the Expos' demise. Yes, he pulled off what turned out to be one of the worst trades in MLB history (Bartolo Colon for Brandon Phillips, Cliff Lee, and Grady Sizemore). But that was in June of 2002. At that time, the Expos were still in the race and everyone thought they would be contracted after the season (it wasn't until August that MLB agreed not to contract a team). What good were minor league prospects going to do for the Expos if they ceased to exist?

I think you're vastly over-estimating the thought at the time that contraction was actually going to happen.

Selig has never been one to use his power unilaterally. He's a consensus builder. And the thought that he would somehow steamroller the players' union and contract two teams all on his own with no notice was laughable even at the time.

Omar did say that prior to leaving the Mets for the Expos, they had done some simulated dispersal drafts. So while it wasn't a definite, I'd say there was a decent chance of contraction.

[Gothamite]

What was the second team they used in those simulations?

Very slim at best. Nowhere near enough to justify gutting a farm system because "we won't be needing it anymore".

[HedleyLamarr]

What was the second team they used in those simulations?

The Twins. Carl Pohlad was in favor of contracting his own team.

[CubsFanBudMan]

There were also rumors of the Angels volunteering, with the A's replacing them in Anaheim. It's all here somewhere.

As far as those Rays articles, I wonder what the other 6 markets are that he thinks could support an expansion team. It seems to me MLB is tapped out. 81 games is quite a commitment.

[monkeypower]

I don't think the Angels would do that, well I don't think Arte would do that. He'd have a hard time calling them the Los Angeles Angels of Montreal.

Or he'd go the Quebec City Expos of Montreal.

[Eye]

What was the second team they used in those simulations?

The Twins. Carl Pohlad was in favor of contracting his own team.

Yep.

And I don't know why anyone is blaming Omar animate for the Expos moving, the team might not have existed much longer, so he had to "Win now." Most, probably all of those trades were justified.

[ZapRowsdower8]

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=18886

BP article from last year that looks at possible relocation and expansion cities. Montreal comes in at #7. I remember an Economist (maybe, could be wrong about which financial mag it came from) article from about 5 years ago that did the same thing. Montreal was one of the few places that could support a MLB franchise, but they too recommended Northern Jersey first.