Baseball in Montréal

[IceCap]

Agree to disagree then. I don't think the French fanbase in Montreal will support anything that's playing second fiddle to a team from Toronto in the long term.

[BigBubba]

1. Attendance at a major league exhibition tells us exactly nothing about how a market would support a franchise at any level.

A. I wasn't referring to the number of bums in the stands.

Okay, then to what were you referring when you said:

if these are successful, they'll be pondering the idea of putting a minor league-team there.

?

"These" referring to the Blue Jays' attempts to grow the sport in the region, of which these games are a part. I'm not taking about whether or not these games can draw well. I'm talking about whether their overall plan of developing Canadian baseball succeeds in Québec. If they can make baseball relevant in the region and garner interest in the sport, I wouldn't be surprised to see them test the market not too long from now.

And Cap, I guess I'll join you and bosrs1 in agreeing to disagree.

[bosrs1]

1. Attendance at a major league exhibition tells us exactly nothing about how a market would support a franchise at any level.

A. I wasn't referring to the number of bums in the stands.

Okay, then to what were you referring when you said:

if these are successful, they'll be pondering the idea of putting a minor league-team there.

?

"These" referring to the Blue Jays' attempts to grow the sport in the region, of which these games are a part. I'm not taking about whether or not these games can draw well. I'm talking about whether their overall plan of developing Canadian baseball succeeds in Québec. If they can make baseball relevant in the region and garner interest in the sport, I wouldn't be surprised to see them test the market not too long from now.

And Cap, I guess I'll join you and bosrs1 in agreeing to disagree.

By "them" are you referring to the Jays or MLB?

[BigBubba]

^The Blue Jays.

[bosrs1]

So you think the Jays would test the Montreal market? I assume you mean for a MiLB team and not for themselves.

[BigBubba]

So you think the Jays would test the Montreal market? I assume you mean for a MiLB team and not for themselves.

Correct.

[The_Admiral]

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/10/19/tigers-need-leadoff-man-may-target-jacoby-ellsbury/JBiSrKHTJcEFxUsgxUFenM/story.html

Montreal now seen as a viable alternative

We’ve written before about a Montreal baseball revival. But now there’s some real talk about the possibility that the Rays, for instance, could see Montreal as a real alternative if plans for a new stadium don’t work out in the Tampa area.

The reason?

As we’ve pointed out, the Montreal business community is much different than it was in the past. There are large telecom companies and financial institutions with big money. The city would need a new stadium, but Montreal baseball has a very strong grass-roots movement to explore the possibility.

As one AL executive pointed out recently, “Other cities — Washington D.C. and Seattle — have received second chances for franchises. It appears that Montreal would be a viable second-chance city given the financial opportunity there now. There have always been great baseball fans there. They never had a venue that was desirable for baseball and the economics never allowed them to keep the great talent they developed over the years.”

Former Expos outfielder Warren Cromartie, one of those spearheading the return of major league baseball to Montreal, said the group he’s formed will soon announce the results of a feasibility study, which Cromartie said has been positive.

Montreal will also host spring training games March 28 and 29 between the Blue Jays and the Mets, a sign that MLB sees the city as a viable option for expansion and/or relocation. Unfortunately, the games will be played at Olympic Stadium, but part of the feasibility study includes the building of a downtown stadium.

“We’ve sold 50,000 tickets for the games already,” Cromartie said. “We’re very excited about these games and a big gala we’re going to have. We hope to bring back all of the old Expos, like Pedro Martinez, Larry Walker, Moises Alou, and many others. We’re going to honor Felipe Alou. It’s going to be great.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ob1CdTLDj10

[dalethompson]

Baseball in Montreal definitely can work but there's a lot of variables right now against the city getting a team in the very near future.

It's going to take someone with deep pockets to either buy an expansion team or an existing team and then convince the municipal/provincial/federal governments to all chip in for a new stadium located downtown. They need to find corporate sponsorship as well and then they need to convince MLB this is all a good idea before a shovel even hits the dirt for a stadium.

The bad news: Expansion won't be happening any time soon, the divisions are now perfectly aligned for the first time since the end of the 1960's. 30 teams, 6 divisions, 5 teams in each division. MLB will not upset the balance of these divisions now unless the diluted the product even more and added an additional 6 teams for expansions, which is never going to happen.

The good news: Just as Montreal lost their team to Washington in 2005 and Washington previously lost their teams to Minnesota (1960) and Texas respectively (1971)... two teams in 11 years, MLB has always put a team back in a city that lost a franchise along the way, at least in the modern era. Montreal's best hope is a franchise that is struggling (like Oakland or Tampa Bay) with their respective cities and then move them up North to play. Bud Selig won't be commissioner forever, so once he's gone, the city of Montreal stands a much better chance to get a team back. The Canadian dollar is much more stable than it was 20-30 years ago too.

All this, of course, isn't new for anyone who follows baseball or the Expos, so I'm probably just rehashing a lot of things others have said.

One man who has the means to bring a team back to Canada: David Thomson, richest man in Canada and worth an estimated $22 billion.

[Gothamite]

Bud Selig won't be commissioner forever, so once he's gone, the city of Montreal stands a much better chance to get a team back.

What makes you say that?

[CubsFanBudMan]

The bad news: Expansion won't be happening any time soon, the divisions are now perfectly aligned for the first time since the end of the 1960's. 30 teams, 6 divisions, 5 teams in each division. MLB will not upset the balance of these divisions now unless the diluted the product even more and added an additional 6 teams for expansions, which is never going to happen.

I like the current alignment and playoff structure, so I'm okay with no expansion.

But why would you say it's 6 teams or none? Yes, it's nice that all divisions are equal again after decades, but it's not out of the realm of possibility that MLB would go uneven. Or 8 divisions of 4. But that's for a different thread.

That said, with Oakland and Tampa Bay's situations, 30 might be the cap, with whoever lis left without a chair being the prime candidate in another decade or so.

Also, Portland wants back in the mix. A report surfaced last week and occasional CCSLCer Maury Brown said he was going to have something to add Friday, but I forgot to check for it.

[The_Admiral]

the divisions are now perfectly aligned for the first time since the end of the 1960's.

I don't think there's anything perfect about year-round interleague crap and taking Houston out of the league it was in for half a century.

[CubsFanBudMan]

Here's Maury's Forbes piece on Portland... and others:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2013/10/25/why-portland-and-other-markets-begging-for-mlb-will-get-bloody-knees-waiting/

He seems to think that the skyrocketing value of local TV rights will keep new markets from emerging. I wonder if by that logic, Las Vegas and Iowa become more attractive, since 5 or 6 teams claim each. Seems easy enough to say the new team gets it over a six-team split. Now, of course neither makes sense like Portland or Montreal with a ballpark.. and I don't see how the Mariners would have a case that they need all of Oregon when they have Montana, Idaho, etc.

[cmm]

The bad news: Expansion won't be happening any time soon, the divisions are now perfectly aligned for the first time since the end of the 1960's.

1993 doesn't count?

[Cosmic]

Here's Maury's Forbes piece on Portland... and others:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2013/10/25/why-portland-and-other-markets-begging-for-mlb-will-get-bloody-knees-waiting/

He seems to think that the skyrocketing value of local TV rights will keep new markets from emerging. I wonder if by that logic, Las Vegas and Iowa become more attractive, since 5 or 6 teams claim each. Seems easy enough to say the new team gets it over a six-team split. Now, of course neither makes sense like Portland or Montreal with a ballpark.. and I don't see how the Mariners would have a case that they need all of Oregon when they have Montana, Idaho, etc.

Montana and Idaho are big spaces on the map, but there's no people there.

[The_Admiral]

Hey, most experts agree that Mormons are people, too.

[C's]

I thought the Rays were locked into Tropicana for the next 15 years or so?

It'd be great to see Montreal get another shot after the way Loria and Selig screwed them, but not if it means expanding to 32 teams. MLB already has too many.

Portland has no public money and they're a bunch of soccer loving hipsters. They're unlikely to care much about baseball.

Idk if Charlotte's been mentioned in this thread, but it has been most everywhere else... I think it's a terrible idea. Pro sports don't mean a damn thing in the bible belt, particulary the eastern/southeastern part of it. Yeah, they have the population, doesn't mean they're gonna give a damn.

Vegas sounds good but in reality its a pathetic media market and outside the city proper there's nothing but tumbleweeds. There's also a million better things to do in Vegas on a Tuesday night than go watch a baseball game in sweltering heat.

Iowa? Get real.

Only good options are Montreal, a third New York team (Brooklyn or north NJ), and Orlando if the Rays are wiped out and if a quality stadium location was available. I think that's as good a way to handle Florida as any... contract the two existing teams that are pretty much doomed to constant failure (whether it be a terrible stadium situation they're locked into or a poisonous abusive turd of an owner), and put two new expansion teams in their place in Miami and Orlando.

[BigBubba]

the divisions are now perfectly aligned for the first time since the end of the 1960's.

I don't think there's anything perfect about year-round interleague crap and taking Houston out of the league it was in for half a century.

I believe that by "perfect", he meant "equal".

[Evil G]

Iowa? Get real.

I'd like to see it so I can have an MLB team to root for.

[CubsFanBudMan]

No one is saying Iowa. I brought it up because it's a no-man's land TV market like Vegas. Or every-man's land, depending on how you look at it. The map in the Forbes piece has been posted here before, but it's very interesting. Evil G, you have 6 teams to choose from that have a piece of Iowa, and you can watch every one on a sports pack with no blackouts. Very unusual.

[The_Admiral]

That's presuming his cable system carries FSN Wisconsin, CSN Chicago, FSN Midwest, FSN North, aaaaand FSN Kansas City.