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Could the long Orange County nightmare be coming to an end?


ZapRowsdower8

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The separateness of the two counties is evidently on the commute between them. Just get on the 5 South from LA. Everything is grimy and depressing, and the freeway itself is narrow, worsening traffic. As soon as you cross into Orange County it's like a revelation: you got more lanes, and everything is clean and new-looking. LA is so poorly-run and dirty

That'll be changing. I-5 is currently undergoing a very extensive expansion between the Orange County line and about 2/3rd of the way to downtown LA.

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Okay cool but San Francisco is a world-class city and San Jose is sprawl no one cares about.

Considering that San Jose has about 5x the $$$ and Fortune 500's (and by extension political capital) I'd say you're wrong there too. San Francisco is undoubtely and without question the social and tourist center of the Bay Area. But in many other areas it's slowly fallen to second place. I mean hell, they just lost their football team (and only native team) to what you term "a sprawl no one cares about." Only reason SF didn't lose the name was out of a sense of historical integrity and marketing reasons. Half the fan base was already in a dither over having to drive 50 miles further to games and pay 2x or more to see them, so there was little reason to piss them off even further. That said the fact they've all but sold out their season tickets in the South Bay should indicate to you just how important the area is, particularly to sports teams.

Plus there's always Oakland to look down on.

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Okay it's obvious that you're the president of the San Jose Chamber of Commerce but seriously most Americans couldn't find the Bay's armpit unless you referred to it as such.

♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫

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I

Frankly, I think Anaheim Angels is the better name. Los Angeles Angels is kinda redundant. It'd be like a team calling itself the Montreal Royals or the West Ham Hammers.

Or Philadelphia Phillies!

Or Houston Texans.

GO OILERS-GO BLUE JAYS-GO ESKIMOS-GO COLTS

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I was thinking more along the lines of Schaumburg or Naperville, you know, the whole Edge City phenomenon, though the region as a whole is too provincial to renounce the city itself the way people outside Los Angeles and Phoenix like to do (though Napervillians are getting a little big for their britches as of late).

I think this interaction my mom apparently had with another marathoner in Boston last spring pretty much sums of the attitude of Midwestern suburbanites.

Mom: "Hey, I'm from Wisconsin too! Where are you from?"

Twunt: "I'm from Milwaukee."

Mom: "Oh, my son is from Milwaukee... he lives in Riverwest."

Twunt: "Ugh, I'm actually from Waukesha."

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Okay it's obvious that you're the president of the San Jose Chamber of Commerce but seriously most Americans couldn't find the Bay's armpit unless you referred to it as such.

You must not travel much. I've mentioned San Jose to people from San Diego to Altanta, from Miami to Vancouver, BC and they all have known where it is located. You sound like you're from San Francisco. I've noticed many people who live in "the city" or are from there have a very perochial attitude about SF and it's location in the world. And it usually is something like this...

sf_sees_world.jpg

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Yeah, but in fairness those are people who only heard the Dionne Warwick song and presumed that San Jose was some sort of magical wonderland. :P

And for the record, that joke comes from an old standup routine I heard (in a club in the South Bay) that had them rolling in the aisles.

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I was thinking more along the lines of Schaumburg or Naperville, you know, the whole Edge City phenomenon, though the region as a whole is too provincial to renounce the city itself the way people outside Los Angeles and Phoenix like to do (though Napervillians are getting a little big for their britches as of late).

EDIT: this was in response to an illwauk post that supposed that blue-collar satellite cities were more likely to be "self-sustaining" as far as the Midwest goes. I don't see that post anymore, so this is a response to nothing.

To all of those who want "Los Angeles Angels", would you also want the "San Francisco Sharks"?

Yeah. They should have stayed closer to San Francisco.
No. They shouldn't have.
I was thinking that paradoxically, being closer to San Francisco would have made the fanbase be less of a bunch of weirdos. And that you can't go wrong positioning yourself closer to higher population density.
Then you'd be the first person in the history of the world to have suggested a move to San Francisco to get away from the weirdos.

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On 11/19/2012 at 7:23 PM, oldschoolvikings said:
She’s still half convinced “Chris Creamer” is a porn site.)
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And the region is named after the Bay, not the city of San Francisco.

Isn't the Bay named after the city? Ipso facto...

Actually the Bay was named before the city existed on November 4, 1769 (and technically that was due to a mistake with the Portola party thinking they'd reached what is now called Drakes Bay which at the time was called Bahia de San Francisco leading to two bays having the same name. The larger bay got to keep the San Francisco name ultimately). So the city is named after the bay as the region wasn't settled by Europeans until September 1776 when the Presidio of San Francisco was founded which the city of San Francisco then grew from.

/history lesson

Plus it was originally Yerba Buena anyway.

VmWIn6B.png

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I was thinking more along the lines of Schaumburg or Naperville, you know, the whole Edge City phenomenon, though the region as a whole is too provincial to renounce the city itself the way people outside Los Angeles and Phoenix like to do (though Napervillians are getting a little big for their britches as of late).

I think this interaction my mom apparently had with another marathoner in Boston last spring pretty much sums of the attitude of Midwestern suburbanites.

Mom: "Hey, I'm from Wisconsin too! Where are you from?"

Twunt: "I'm from Milwaukee."

Mom: "Oh, my son is from Milwaukee... he lives in Riverwest."

Twunt: "Ugh, I'm actually from Waukesha."

That's about the best way I've seen that explained re: midwestern suburbanites. It's especially true of Hamilton County, which borders Indianapolis/Marion County to the north. They'll tell you they either live in or are from Indianapolis, when in actuality they either live in/are from Carmel, Fishers, Westfield, or Noblesville, none of which are Indianapolis, or even Marion County for that matter.

I'll never understand that, either...especially since so many of HC's residents swear up and down that's the only part of the metro worth talking about/living in, aand that virtually the entirety of the 465 beltway is "to be avoided".

*Disclaimer: I am not an authoritative expert on stuff...I just do a lot of reading and research and keep in close connect with a bunch of people who are authoritative experts on stuff. 😁

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You sound like you're from San Francisco.

I think the admiral's point, one I happen to agree with, is that San Francisco is the cultural and social centre of the region, whereas San Jose is a former suburb that exploded with the advent of the computer age. San Francisco is one the great American cities, whereas San Jose is a shapeless sprawl. Sure, San Jose is bigger. Sure, it's home to more Fortune 500 companies. At the end of the day though? It's not San Francisco. It doesn't have that same civic identity. It's just a sprawl that got way to big. And that's what's important.

I grew up/currently live in a community that went through the same thing. Kitchener-Waterloo exploded when RIM/Blackberry hit it big. As a result a community that was already mostly a sprawly collection of suburbs became that, but moreso. Yes, K-W has it's own unique identity and that's cool, but it would be a lie to say we have the same kind of civic identity as, say, Toronto.

As for the comment about San Francisco getting the Sharks away from weirdos? Well the Sharks play in a suburb on steroids, and it show. Their fanbase, convinced they're really great and important, and that the team is the best thing you could ask for, reeks of an organization coddled by suburbanites. Which it is, because that's where they play.

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You sound like you're from San Francisco.

I think the admiral's point, one I happen to agree with, is that San Fransisco is the cultural and social centre of the region, whereas San Jose is a former suburb that exploded with the advent of the computer age. San Fransisco is one the great American cities, whereas San Jose is a shapeless sprawl. Sure, San Jose is bigger. Sure, it's home to more Fortune 500 companies. At the end of the day though? It's not San Fransisco. It doesn't have that same civic identity. It's just a sprawl that got way to big. And that's what's important.

I grew up/currently live in a community that went through the same thing. Kitchener-Waterloo exploded when RIM/Blackberry hit it big. As a result a community that was already mostly a sprawly collection of suburbs became that, but moreso. Yes, K-W has it's own unique identity and that's cool, but it would be a lie to say we have the same kind of civic identity as, say, Toronto.

As for the comment about San Fransisco getting the Sharks away from weirdos? Well the Sharks play in a suburb on steroids, and it show. Their fanbase, convinced they're really great and important, and that the team is the best thing you could ask for, reeks of an organization coddled by suburbanites. Which it is, because that's where they play.

Guess that's where we'll just have to disagree. San Jose is no more a "shapeless sprawl" than a city like Pittsburgh or Philadelphia is these days. San Jose has a distinct downtown core that while not huge is roughly the size of the same area in many eastern cities like Cleveland or Philadelphia. Plus it has it's own distinct neighborhoods with smaller sattilite business districts in places like Willow Glen. To say nothing of it's own suburbs like Los Gatos, Campbell, Sunnyvale and Santa Clara.

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I think "Orange County" has a unique enough identity to be a strong geographic brand. Technically, most of its cities are considered LA suburbs but The OC has its own industry, its own epic beaches, its own tourist attractions and a unique sense of self different from LA. "Anaheim" never worked for me because no one city defines the OC. Some may think it sounds minor league, but the "OC Angels" makes the most sense. Here are some concepts I made awhile back.

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0OTe9sF.jpg

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I think "Orange County" has a unique enough identity to be a strong geographic brand. Technically, most of its cities are considered LA suburbs but The OC has its own industry, its own epic beaches, its own tourist attractions and a unique sense of self different from LA. "Anaheim" never worked for me because no one city defines the OC. Some may think it sounds minor league, but the "OC Angels" makes the most sense. Here are some concepts I made awhile back.

Cool concepts, but the team is called the ANGELS... as in the City of Angels. The name doesn't work with any other locale but Los Angeles.

That's about the best way I've seen that explained re: midwestern suburbanites. It's especially true of Hamilton County, which borders Indianapolis/Marion County to the north. They'll tell you they either live in or are from Indianapolis, when in actuality they either live in/are from Carmel, Fishers, Westfield, or Noblesville, none of which are Indianapolis, or even Marion County for that matter.

I'll never understand that, either...especially since so many of HC's residents swear up and down that's the only part of the metro worth talking about/living in, aand that virtually the entirety of the 465 beltway is "to be avoided".

Man, I'm FROM here and I don't even understand it... aside from knowing much better than to expect any type of logical consisitency when dealing with these folks, who clearly want to have it both ways. It gets real tiring having to constantly explain to people that the bass ackwards blowhards they encountered from "Milwaukee" have probably never actually been to Milwaukee for anything but Brewer games or Summerfest... if even that.

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"Orange County" would be a new low when it comes to naming teams after locations. I'd rather they stick with "Los Angeles...of Anaheim" then go with "Orange County." It's the opposite side of the coin that gave us the "New England Patriots." Instead of six states it's a single county, but it's still just as stupid.

You sound like you're from San Francisco.

I think the admiral's point, one I happen to agree with, is that San Fransisco is the cultural and social centre of the region, whereas San Jose is a former suburb that exploded with the advent of the computer age. San Fransisco is one the great American cities, whereas San Jose is a shapeless sprawl. Sure, San Jose is bigger. Sure, it's home to more Fortune 500 companies. At the end of the day though? It's not San Fransisco. It doesn't have that same civic identity. It's just a sprawl that got way to big. And that's what's important.
I grew up/currently live in a community that went through the same thing. Kitchener-Waterloo exploded when RIM/Blackberry hit it big. As a result a community that was already mostly a sprawly collection of suburbs became that, but moreso. Yes, K-W has it's own unique identity and that's cool, but it would be a lie to say we have the same kind of civic identity as, say, Toronto.

As for the comment about San Fransisco getting the Sharks away from weirdos? Well the Sharks play in a suburb on steroids, and it show. Their fanbase, convinced they're really great and important, and that the team is the best thing you could ask for, reeks of an organization coddled by suburbanites. Which it is, because that's where they play.

Guess that's where we'll just have to disagree. San Jose is no more a "shapeless sprawl" than a city like Pittsburgh or Philadelphia is these days. San Jose has a distinct downtown core that while not huge is roughly the size of the same area in many eastern cities like Cleveland or Philadelphia. Plus it has it's own distinct neighborhoods with smaller sattilite business districts in places like Willow Glen. To say nothing of it's own suburbs like Los Gatos, Campbell, Sunnyvale and Santa Clara.

Yes, but Cleveland, Philadelphia, and Pittsburgh aren't located right next to an iconic American citiy that has its own famous distinct neighbourhoods that are engrained on the national psyche.

Sharks fans seem desperate to see their team recognized as a cornerstone franchise of the league, the west coast equivalent of the Rangers and Bruins. It would be easier for hockey fans the league over to make that mental connection if they played in and/or identified with a city that's culturally seen as the west coast equivalent to New York and Boston. That's San Francisco. Not San Jose. And just for the record, I'm not trying to disparage San Jose or say it's a bad place to live or anything. Just that, culturally speaking, it's not San Francisco. And likely never will be.

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Man, I'm FROM here and I don't even understand it... aside from knowing much better than to expect any type of logical consisitency when dealing with these folks who clearly want to have it both ways. It gets real tiring having to constantly explain to people that the bass ackwards blowhards from "Milwaukee" they encountered have probably never actually been to Milwaukee for anything but Brewer games or Summerfest... if even that.

I don't have many skills in this thing called life, but I'm pretty sure I can spot a Brookfield native with crackerjack accuracy. It's almost as if there's an alpha-maleness that borders on the sinister. Case in point: a girl I went to high school with got married to a guy a few of us have agreed we aren't really sold on. At a get-together last winter, the topic came up, I said he looks like a douchebag from Brookfield. Someone started laughing. Nailed it.

♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫

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Man, I'm FROM here and I don't even understand it... aside from knowing much better than to expect any type of logical consisitency when dealing with these folks, who clearly want to have it both ways. It gets real tiring having to constantly explain to people that the bass ackwards blowhards they encountered from "Milwaukee" have probably never actually been to Milwaukee for anything but Brewer games or Summerfest... if even that.

It's called a metro area. It's pretty ridiculous to expect someone to say they're from InsertSuburbOrExurbHere when they're asked where they live by someone that likely doesn't know the area. To most people, I say I grew up in the "St. Louis area"; I only get more specific if that person knows the area and asks.

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On 7/14/2012 at 2:20 AM, tajmccall said:

When it comes to style, ya'll really should listen to Kev.

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Man, I'm FROM here and I don't even understand it... aside from knowing much better than to expect any type of logical consisitency when dealing with these folks, who clearly want to have it both ways. It gets real tiring having to constantly explain to people that the bass ackwards blowhards they encountered from "Milwaukee" have probably never actually been to Milwaukee for anything but Brewer games or Summerfest... if even that.

It's called a metro area. It's pretty ridiculous to expect someone to say they're from InsertSuburbOrExurbHere when they're asked where they live by someone that likely doesn't know the area. To most people, I say I grew up in the "St. Louis area"; I only get more specific if that person knows the area and asks.
Same here. Whenever I'm outside of Ontario, I always say I'm from Toronto, despite the fact I actually live in Mississauga (though my house is pretty close to the Mississauga/Toronto border). I don't expect people who aren't familiar with the GTA to know all of the suburbs.
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