2013 MLB Discussion Thread, Redux

[STL FANATIC]

Interesting. Lester may have been using pine tar or vaseline. Won't matter if true, he's already gotten away with it. Suppose it could matter in game 5.

Also, x-rays to Beltran were negative. He's day-to-day. Who knows though after seeing how much it affected Hanley Ramirez. Granted, he did have a hairline fracture, so maybe there's hope.

[dbadefense1990]

Interesting. Lester may have been using pine tar or vaseline. Won't matter if true, he's already gotten away with it. Suppose it could matter in game 5.

Great. We might have ourselves another Kenny Rogers incident.

Also, x-rays to Beltran were negative. He's day-to-day. Who knows though after seeing how much it affected Hanley Ramirez. Granted, he did have a hairline fracture, so maybe there's hope.

If there's anything I learned this postseason, it's that any injury, no matter how it's perceived as minor, can have devastating effects.

[Eye]

Just a bad baseball game tonight from the St. Louis perspective.

Umps got a lot of balls and strikes wrong. Then Red Sox hit a lot of baseballs. And the Cardinals forgot how to field. Then the ump got a call brutally wrong. Then the umps illegally got the call right (which is an odd but accurate description). Then the Red Sox hit the baseball some more. Then the Cardinals forgot how to field some more. Then the Red Sox hit the baseball some more. Then the Cardinals wasted their opportunities. Then nothing. Then the Cardinals forgot how to field again again. Then the Red Sox hit some baseballs. And now some more nothing that will probably see use through to the end.

Good thing it only counts as one game.

So the umpires getting the call right still isn't good enough?

[McCall]

I believe technically the umpire has to ask for help, they can't just come in on their own. I may be wrong about that, not completely sure. Either way, it's the World Series and they got the call right.

[Epiphanic]

This doesn't have anything to do specifically with Game 1, but it reminded me of a similar play I saw during a recap of a Mets-White Sox game earlier this year. A pop-up to about the same spot as illustrated in the above GIF is hit. The pitcher points up in the air; the catcher and first baseman run in but no one takes charge. The second baseman, who was also running in but had a longer distance to run, realizes no one's going to catch the ball makes a valiant, but unsuccessful effort to catch the ball. Ball lands safely right next to the pitcher.

My question is why don't pitchers catch pop-ups? Is it some sort of rule to not get hurt? It's baffling.

[Sport]

Pitchers have the last priority in catching popups because it's harder to get off the mound while concentrating on the ball in the air than it is for the other players to run in on flat grass.

Especially true if the ball's behind the mound where the pitcher has to avoid stepping on the rubber, the rosin bag, the spike cleaner thing, and climb down from the mound itself.

[Kramerica Industries]

Of course, in this very game four years ago, Cliff Lee did this:

Which, frankly, is just hilarious for the nonchalance of it.

[pcgd]

The only pop fly a pitcher should catch is one directly on the mound...or possibly one similar to this one. Most infield popups its a far better play for a charging infielder or a catcher with his back to the field to catch it.

[NJTank]

The Cardinals need to win tonight, too many of the World Series have sucked lately. It is like the Super Bowls in the 80's a blow out every year.

[TheOldRoman]

This doesn't have anything to do specifically with Game 1, but it reminded me of a similar play I saw during a recap of a Mets-White Sox game earlier this year. A pop-up to about the same spot as illustrated in the above GIF is hit. The pitcher points up in the air; the catcher and first baseman run in but no one takes charge. The second baseman, who was also running in but had a longer distance to run, realizes no one's going to catch the ball makes a valiant, but unsuccessful effort to catch the ball. Ball lands safely right next to the pitcher.

My question is why don't pitchers catch pop-ups? Is it some sort of rule to not get hurt? It's baffling.

Sadly, the Whtie Sox play was much more humiliating than that. The pitcher and thirdbaseman were there. The 3B was camped under it ready to make the catch. The secondbaseman, who was running in to make the catch, tripped over the pitcher's foot and tackled the 3B, causing the ball to drop. It is a perfect one gif summary of our season.

[STL FANATIC]

Just a bad baseball game tonight from the St. Louis perspective.

Umps got a lot of balls and strikes wrong. Then Red Sox hit a lot of baseballs. And the Cardinals forgot how to field. Then the ump got a call brutally wrong. Then the umps illegally got the call right (which is an odd but accurate description). Then the Red Sox hit the baseball some more. Then the Cardinals forgot how to field some more. Then the Red Sox hit the baseball some more. Then the Cardinals wasted their opportunities. Then nothing. Then the Cardinals forgot how to field again again. Then the Red Sox hit some baseballs. And now some more nothing that will probably see use through to the end.

Good thing it only counts as one game.

So the umpires getting the call right still isn't good enough?

Ultimately getting the call right is what I want. I go on and on about it. Deep down, I'm glad they got it right.

But will they do this every time they miss a call? Could the Cardinals have requested the home plate ump ask the 2B ump for help on all those strike calls he missed on the first AB to Jacoby Ellsbury? No, because it's not allowed. And neither was it allowed for Farrell to ask the 2B ump to huddle.

Rule 9.02 ( a ) and ( b ) is where this is all addressed. Only calls that are made with an incorrect enforcement of the rules can be appealed after the final call is made. Pretty clear the call was final since the play had finished and it wasn't until Farrell came out that anything happened. This play could not be appealed because the umpire was right about the rule he was enforcing, he simply saw the play wrong. It shouldn't have been allowed to be overturned, and this may or may not lead to a can of worms the rest of the series.

Ultimately, though, I need to note a few things before I get shredded:

1. Ultimately the call was right, even if it was reached in an illegal manner. There's obviously a lot of good in that.

2. While you never know... the Cardinals lost 8-1 and played one horrible baseball game. I'm not suggesting that play was the difference in baseball.

3. My real solution has always been full replay and a full automated strike zone. All that technology already exists and an advanced enough level to use it and get 99.9% of calls right, and yet MLB has dragged it's feet adopting it. Next year it will finally adopt expanded replay, but it will only be a half-victory because it will utilize a convoluted challenge system instead of having an off-field replay-only umpire watching every play and almost always having determined if it was right or wrong before the next pitch would be thrown anyways. And the automated strike zone is still probably over a decade off despite it being virtually ready know.

The strike zone is the most important rule in baseball as it affects every single play, and yet it is the most overlooked and the most accepted mistake there is. Drives me crazy. (But I reiterate point 2 here... I've just digressed into a rant I have frequently, not about this specific game—though I was having it in the first 2 innings).

[Epiphanic]

The only pop fly a pitcher should catch is one directly on the mound...or possibly one similar to this one. Most infield popups its a far better play for a charging infielder or a catcher with his back to the field to catch it.

Pitchers have the last priority in catching popups because it's harder to get off the mound while concentrating on the ball in the air than it is for the other players to run in on flat grass.

I understand that, but it seems silly that when the pitchers are off the mound and are the closest defender to catching the ball (especially if no one has called them off), they should take charge.

[pcgd]

When you have 9 players all looking up you need some "rules" to go by for safety and to control the chaos. Some of those are things like the pitcher not catching pop flies. Others are the center fielder is the trump in the outfield, all outfielders trump infielders, the 3rd basemen takes anything he can get to on the ground and other rules that you learn as you play the game. I've seen plenty of pitchers just run away even if its right on the mound.

It seems simple but the reality is the 1st basemen or the 3rd basemen should have been there to catch that pitch. They have bigger gloves that are easier to catch a pop fly while running forward. The spin a popup like that has causes it to typically fade towards the mound. This is why you see catchers turn their back to the infield when catching popups, its easier to back up and catch the ball without dropping it than it is to run forward and catch it (with a catchers mitt). The pitcher in addition to all the reasons already mentioned, shouldn't attempt the catch because he will most likely have to backpedal and he may backpedal over the mound. The one of the infielders can run in on the ball and not have to worry as much about that. They won't even have to deal with the mound from their angle.

All of this solely deals with high popups that you can camp under.

Wainwright not leaving that area caused some confusion on their part I'm sure and in the end, they dropped the ball. Even though this is his 3rd World Series I think the nerves get to these guys sometimes and they start over thinking everything.

[McCall]

Cardinals tie up the series 1-1. Time to come on home. But I'd hate to see it go back to Boston. That could be trouble. I think that'd be tougher than winning all 3 at home.

[Kramerica Industries]

Yeah, well, if you guys want to end this series at Busch, I really wouldn't complain...

[FiddySicks]

Pete Kozma is absolute trash.

[FGM13]

Nava's either gonna hit a huge grand slam to the lead, or ground into a double play.

[Kramerica Industries]

A WORLD SERIES game just ended that way.

This is such a weird sport.

[HedleyLamarr]

Only the Cardinals would win a game in the World Series like that.....

It was the right call. Salty shouldn't have even entertained making that throw.

[dbadefense1990]

Such a stupid ending to Game 3. If there was runner interference, why in blue hell didn't the 3rd base umpire called it? Why did it had to be the home plate guy calling it? Nice way of provoking injuries for nothing.