2013 MLB Discussion Thread, Redux

[infrared41]

Too bad the Yankees/Dodgers rivalry has essentially been relegated to history and I'm too young to harken back to that '77-'81 period, because I simply feel zero connection to hate that team.

Everyone at work keeps telling me I'm not allowed to root for the Dodgers. Hey sorry I'm the youngest person here by 15 years, but I don't remember when Dodgers-Reds was a rivalry. I remember when Cardinals-Reds was a rivalry and they and their fans are the biggest pain in the ass in sports so LET'S GO DODGERS.

The better team won tonight. Still a helluva season from the Pirates. 94 wins, made the NLDS, took the Cards to five games. I can't complain. It was a really fun ride.

So now what? Unlike...well...99% of the people here, I actually like the Cardinals. It was easy to root against them when they were playing the Pirates, but I don't hate the Cardinals at all. I have to admit that I'll be rooting for them from here on in.

Now I'm going to run for cover....

Okay, that's fine.

* puts Infrared on "the list" *

I should add that I'd also be perfectly happy with the Dodgers winning the NLCS. I like the Dodgers just as much as I like the Cardinals. As long as it's not the Red Sox, I'm going to be happy.

[Alex Houston]

Man, 3 straight NLCS appearances for the redbirds. Kind of makes you wonder if their fanbase, along with others like the Yankees, gets spoiled with such continued success after a while. I've always thought it does, because really, how can you not take winning for granted as a fan? I mean, look at the Steelers right now. Luckily, the Pirates came along when they did, otherwise I think you'd see more people jumping out of windows near Heinz Field on Sundays.

On a slightly different note, anybody but Boston or Detroit please. Especially Boston for reasons mentioned above.

[Kramerica Industries]

I think when one of the teams you root for is perennially good and another is perennially bad, it helps keep some balance and perspective.

Pittsburgh fans have a pretty excellent case for both of those. Some cities (*cough*Boston*cough*), not so much.

[LAWeaver]

My original prediction of a Tigers-Braves WS has already taken a hit because of LA, so I'm hoping Detroit wins tonight. It'll be tough though. It may be winner-take-all from here on out. Whether its Detroit-Boston or Oakland-Boston for the ALCS, as well as the STL-LA series, I could see those series easily going to 7 games including whoever plays in the WS.

[8BW14]

Okay, honest, serious question, here. Why do so many people on here dislike the Cardinals and have a negative opinion of Cardinals fans? I have seen a few post that Cardinals fans are "smug" and I am curious to know why you feel that way. I have been a die-hard Cardinals fan my whole life and I don't get that vibe from people who are fans of other teams in the "real world" and I am just wondering why that sentiment is so popular on here. Please don't reply with snarky, smart comments, just honest answers because I really am curious.

[STL FANATIC]

This is for all of you who just can't help but hate the Cardinals. Read it and feel better: http://deadspin.com/why-your-cardinals-suck-1443513646

It's not logical. There's not one piece of actual evidence for why the Cardinals should be hated in there. But it's sports, and I get that. People hate being told over and over how great something is when that something isn't their something. I'm no different.

I'm just lucky enough to root for one of those somethings.

[STL FANATIC]

Man, 3 straight NLCS appearances for the redbirds. Kind of makes you wonder if their fanbase, along with others like the Yankees, gets spoiled with such continued success after a while. I've always thought it does, because really, how can you not take winning for granted as a fan? I mean, look at the Steelers right now. Luckily, the Pirates came along when they did, otherwise I think you'd see more people jumping out of windows near Heinz Field on Sundays.

On a slightly different note, anybody but Boston or Detroit please. Especially Boston for reasons mentioned above.

There's different ways to define spoiled, but absolutely we're getting there. It's an expectation now. The games always sellout and fill up, but NLDS tickets aren't gone 10 minutes after they go on sale any more because "well, maybe we should save our money for the NLCS."

Like you said, it's sort of unavoidable, but it IS spoiled. I think you can appreciate something and be spoiled at the same time, though, and I try to stay in that zone.

[Still MIGHTY]

Because they're a team with an eternal horseshoe shoved up their

And let's not forget, they have the "Best Fans In Baseball"

[STL FANATIC]

Right. So nothing really logical there.

Nobody will ever be able to know who has the best fans. That's pretty immeasurable. It's pretty clear St. Louis has an awesome baseball fan base, though. But, surprise, surprise. In a sample of millions of people, there are idiots, a**holes, racists, trolls, and arrogant d-bags. Shocking. A twitter account being set up to focus only on those people doesn't preclude the fan base as a whole from being top tier.

I have no desire to try and name it the best. That's a silly argument. (And I wish the Cardinals—not that they're the only team in sports guilty of this—and fans would slow on the self-promotion.) But when lots of national and outside media make the case, it's (1) a big compliment, and (2) probably based on something.

As for the luck. No question they've been frequently fortunate. They're certainly not the only organization in sports to every experience luck, though. Nor are the exempt from bad luck. But they put themselves in good spots so when good luck strikes, it's important. Regardless, chance isn't a particularly fair or rational thing to hold against someone.

But like I said, it's sports. And sports aren't really logical or rational. So people hate what they keep being told about. I do it, too. It's why I developed a dislike for Tim Tebow (even in College when he was actually an elite talent relative to his competition) despite him by most accounts being a tremendous guy.

If we didn't love and hate things in sports with quite a bit of irrationality, they wouldn't be nearly as fun. So by all means, hate on. I certainly will.

[FiddySicks]

I'll take the Cardinals somewhat pretentious "best fans in baseball" vibe over the Dodgers "wait, baseball is NINE innings?!?!/ AL AY DOYERS, homes! Lets beat some opposing fan to death, yo!" vibe any day of the week.

[Sport]

This is for all of you who just can't help but hate the Cardinals. Read it and feel better: http://deadspin.com/why-your-cardinals-suck-1443513646

It's not logical. There's not one piece of actual evidence for why the Cardinals should be hated in there. But it's sports, and I get that. People hate being told over and over how great something is when that something isn't their something. I'm no different.

I'm just lucky enough to root for one of those somethings.

Of course there's no evidence for anything this anecdotal, but I find so much truth in that article.

I don't want to get into why the fanbase is so grating because it's a dark road so I'll just address the team:

I hate the baseball team because everything always goes their way and it's high time that some things stopped going their way. Look at this good fortune their fans have been blessed with:

- 8-1 in elimination games since 2011 (thank you San Fran)

- played in 9 elimination games since 2011

- the infield fly horse****

- Carlos Beltran was not good his last year in New York and San Francisco. He comes to St. Louis and returns to form

- Allen Craig gets injured, his replacement hits two home runs in the 16 inning game.

- Random pitchers show up and have sub 3 ERA's.

- Random position players show up and bat 25 points higher and 100 points higher with RISP.

- won a world series with baseball's 12th best record

- won a world series with a team that only made the playoffs because of an historic collapse by Atlanta.

- the entirety of the 2011 World Series

- This is the 6th NLCS in ten years. The Cardinals were one of the NL's two best teams in 3 of those

- clutch two out hitting

It's an incredibly annoying brand of baseball as a rival fan.

[STL FANATIC]

Some of what you're pointing out is a tribute to the organization's scouting and coaching and the players abilities. Some of it is, of course, very good fortune.

But there can't really be any "truth" to the article because it's not really proposing any facts. It's basically just a rant about being annoyed by someone else's good fortunate and success.

But it's a rant a lot of people can specifically relate to about the Cardinals. And it's a rant even I can relate, too, I would just apply the ideas to other teams.

[The_Admiral]

Objectively as a baseball fan, I love what the Cardinals have quietly done with their development. It's amazing what you can do when everyone is on the same page and the right page. It's tough to do, because even if you have every coach, manager, and instructor working in perfect harmony, you still need the players to buy in. It's the best pipeline since the Braves.

But yeah, the fans. There's not a lot I feel Drew Magary does well, but he's great at running down teams' fanbases with a double-decker bus and then backing up and running over them again and again until they're pancakes. So with that,

They are a horrible family staring at a Norman Rockwell painting of itself.

is right on the money, and this

St. Louis, the town, is a :censored:ing dump. It's not some magical heartland paradise filled with talking Teddy Ruxpin dolls and a five-and-dime on every corner. It's a :censored:hole. It's just as troubled and uncivilized as the rest of the country. The Cardinals are a desperate attempt to polish that turd for all it's worth, and I've seen enough of them for this lifetime and the next. LOSE. LOSE BADLY.

is even more on the money.

[Gold Pinstripes]

It wouldn't surprise me if the Pirates are better next year, but it also wouldn't surprise me if they're the 2009 Rays, 2013 Nationals, 2011 Reds, etc.

It takes a lot of things going right to get to 94 wins.

Agreed, the 2013 Pirates did have a number of things go right, including the rebirth of Francisco Liriano. The new era of Pirate baseball doesn't require 94 wins or a playoff team every year, but winning and contending is quite a contrast from the last 20 years. Getting rid of the streak, especially when 82-80 looked great in spring training, was huge for the franchise. One of the things I thought was so revealing about the series was how the Cards celebrated afterwards, it was like clinching the pennant. The Cards realized they had been pushed to the limit in this series, and both clubs won 12 games against each other overall in 2013.

[STL FANATIC]

Objectively as a baseball fan, I love what the Cardinals have quietly done with their development. It's amazing what you can do when everyone is on the same page and the right page. It's tough to do, because even if you have every coach, manager, and instructor working in perfect harmony, you still need the players to buy in. It's the best pipeline since the Braves.

But yeah, the fans. There's not a lot I feel Drew Magary does well, but he's great at running down teams' fanbases with a double-decker bus and then backing up and running over them again and again until they're pancakes. So with that,

They are a horrible family staring at a Norman Rockwell painting of itself.

is right on the money, and this

St. Louis, the town, is a :censored:ing dump. It's not some magical heartland paradise filled with talking Teddy Ruxpin dolls and a five-and-dime on every corner. It's a :censored:hole. It's just as troubled and uncivilized as the rest of the country. The Cardinals are a desperate attempt to polish that turd for all it's worth, and I've seen enough of them for this lifetime and the next. LOSE. LOSE BADLY.

is even more on the money.

Not really at all. There are dumpy neighborhoods, but most of the city is awesome, and the region (despite me not being a big fan of suburbia) is particularly nice.

[Lights Out]

In theory, I have plenty of respect for the Cardinals' culture of development - as a Rays fan, that same kind of culture has paid off bigtime for our team despite the lack of money or fan support. But holy :censored:, they're :censored:ing annoying in reality. From the elimination game luck, to how they beat the sentimental favorites nearly every year (i.e. the Pirates, the Nats, the Rangers, the Astros), and the smug belief that many of their fans have that they are simply better and more knowledgeable than other fanbases because their team wins more. They're the NL version of the Red Sox, and that's why the near-inevitable Red Sox/Cardinals World Series is going to be nauseating (and was nauseating in '04).

I will say that the Cardinals fans here are perfectly fine and not the type of fans I'm criticizing.

[STL FANATIC]

EDIT: I changed my mind about a joke for no particular reason.

[cmm]

I hate the Cardinals for many of the same reasons others have mentioned (mostly the BFIB BS), plus I grew up as a Mets fan in the 80s when the teams were big rivals (the "Mets are pond scum" days). But I hate the Dodgers more. More specifically, I hate Don Mattingly. He'll always be a Yankee to me so screw him and his $220M+ payroll. I probably won't watch much of the NLCS since I hate both teams, but go Cardinals I guess.

I wanted the Rays to win it all. Now I want Oakland. Detroit would be cool too, and Boston winning would piss off Yankee fans. So as long as an American League team wins, I'm good.

[-kj]

Eh, St. Louis is kinda a dump. (And didn't you grow up in uber-burbia, STL?)

As for the rest... y'all're cordially invited to eat me.

(Also: Denkinger. Tarp Monster. The 90s.)

[-kj]

(the "Mets are pond scum" days)

Ahh, the old days.