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The Big Ol' Counterfeit Jersey Thread


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Well okay so buying jerseys from China/Hong Kong is considered illegal but Lol how do they keep getting through customs and to my doorstep. Hmm 5 jerseys for the price of uno authentic...think I'll do that lol.

If (lol) you don't care about (LOL) the law and want jerseys (lol) cheap, then you must (Lol) also see nothing wrong with (lol) stealing a jersey, right? Lol.

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Nobody cares about your humungous-big signature. 

PotD: 29/1/12

 

 

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Well okay so buying jerseys from China/Hong Kong is considered illegal but Lol how do they keep getting through customs and to my doorstep. Hmm 5 jerseys for the price of uno authentic...think I'll do that lol.

If (lol) you don't care about (LOL) the law and want jerseys (lol) cheap, then you must (Lol) also see nothing wrong with (lol) stealing a jersey, right? Lol.

I've never understood this argument. Sure purchasing counterfeit jerseys is illegal, but it's not the purchaser who is committing IP theft. When you physically steal something, there's no excuse. Personally, I feel that putting the blame on the consumer is a bit unfair, because the average consumer has no idea it's illegal. If they really want to stop IP theft, going against an ignorant consumer isn't going to do it. Going harder after the provider, and even the shipping companies, seems like a better idea. But

How do you do that without violating privacy and international trade laws(not to mention the logistics of it as well)?

That really only leaves the major sports leagues to blame. When the option to purchase an item for 1/5 the price of a real one when most people aren't knowledgeable enough to realize the quality difference or the possibility of illegality of the purchase you really can't win selling jerseys for hundreds of dollars. It doesn't make it right, but the major sports leagues and apparel manufacturers definitely brought this one upon themselves. And I for one don't feel bad about that at all.

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On 11/19/2012 at 7:23 PM, oldschoolvikings said:
She’s still half convinced “Chris Creamer” is a porn site.)
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I wasn't referring to IP theft. Fact is, by purchasing an illegal fake, you are robbing a company of their money. If you were a musician, would you like it if people bought illegal copies of your CD instead of paying you the money for your content? If Derek here has no problem with stealing money off of companies and breaking the law to save a buck, then so be it. But I hope he understands what he's doing and why it's wrong.

It doesn't make it right, but the major sports leagues and apparel manufacturers definitely brought this one upon themselves.

I can agree with this.

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Nobody cares about your humungous-big signature. 

PotD: 29/1/12

 

 

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I wasn't referring to IP theft. Fact is, by purchasing an illegal fake, you are robbing a company of their money. If you were a musician, would you like it if people bought illegal copies of your CD instead of paying you the money for your content? If Derek here has no problem with stealing money off of companies and breaking the law to save a buck, then so be it. But I hope he understands what he's doing and why it's wrong.

It doesn't make it right, but the major sports leagues and apparel manufacturers definitely brought this one upon themselves.

I can agree with this.

That's only true if the person purchasing the jersey has the money to afford a $300 jersey. The reason most people are drawn to knock-off jerseys in the first place is the fact they often come in at about TEN PERCENT the price of a real one!

I genuinely dont think that people buy knock-offs to stop Nike getting their hard earned cash (well certainly not the majority anyway) it's purely a case of being priced out the market. Like you said you agree that the NFL (and other leagues) and the manufacturers have brought it upon themselves, so if they want to fix the problem all they need to do is LOWER the price of the genuine article.

How can they justify $300 for a shirt anyway? It sure as hell doesn't cost anywhere NEAR that to produce, and the first person that gives me the "years of reasearch and development arguement will get laughed down", it's a shirt for pities sake not a super computer or a space probe! If they priced replica's around $50, Limiteds/Premiers around $80 and Authentics at about $100 I can pretty much guarantee they'd still make a profit and pretty much INSTANTLY kill off the knock-off market at the same time as those who buy knock-offs and put up with the flaws would buy the REAL THING, and be happy about it. It's would be win-win.

As for the IP Theft issue, I can pretty much guanatee that ZERO DESIGNERS are being affected by the sale of knock-off jerseys, as I'll bet every designers that's worked on ANY of the logo's used in any sports league today will have been PAID ALREADY. They'll have recieved a one off fee for the entire project and then signed ownership of the logo OVER TO THE TEAM OR LEAGUE. So yeah IP theft has still occured but it wont have hit the designer in the pocket as he/she doesn't receive a percentage of the profits generated from their work anyway.

The problem is easily fixable as I stated above, but large organisations often fail to see the fact that actually reducing costs to consumers and therefore selling more units is often a better way to increase profits than hiring bigger stars to do thier adverts and bumping up the prices of thier products and relying on those already loyal to their brand.

9erssteve

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Most of the people I know own fakes are most definitely able to afford the real thing. Also, PROTIP: Don't buy a jersey full-price. Legit places hold sales all the time. Don't be an enabler of IP theft and stop bringing down the value of some of this boards' members. You do realize teams will pay less for design if they're making less off of it, no?

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Most of the people I know own fakes are most definitely able to afford the real thing. Also, PROTIP: Don't buy a jersey full-price. Legit places hold sales all the time. Don't be an enabler of IP theft and stop bringing down the value of some of this boards' members. You do realize teams will pay less for design if they're making less off of it, no?

I own a fake or two as well, and another reason I do is that I dont live in the states and getting acces to LEGIT merchandise can be a TOTAL NIGHTMARE! Seriously, until VERY recently the NFL shop DID NOT ship outside the states, and even when it started doing so we didn't have access to the full range of stuff. Even THIS YEAR, the NFL made a big deal out of it's new NFL-UK shop, but so far each team has only REPLICA jerseys available and only for ONE PLAYER PER TEAM! Again at the end of the day it comes down to the NFL (or whichever league) making IT'S LEGITIMATE product more accessable. Price it right, and make it available everywhere (at the same price - ie exchange rate, NOT swapping dollars for local currency) which in this day and age IS NOT HARD and the demand for knock-offs will fall dramatically OVERNIGHT.

For the record I'm not encouraging the trade in fakes for one second, as a designer I'm not about to encourage IP theft, I understand the consequences it has for the design industry only to well. But this issue exists BECAUSE of the way Sports leagues and apparell manufacturers CHOOSE to price and sell THEIR products. It's nothing to do with the designers! If the Leagues and Manufacturers made different decisions then CONSUMERS would too! But until THEY change how they operate the problem wont go away, and using the whole IP theft argument, or going after the consumer is the wrong way to go about solving it. Giving the consumer the real deal at a BETTER price solves the issue!

It's simple supply and demand, if the legitimate producers wont provide a product at a price consumers feel is appropriate, and lets be honest here THEY DONT, $300 for an authentic jersey is CRAZY when you stop and think about it, they leave themselves open to being undercut by fakers. Clearly the NFL feels the losses they are sustaining at present to the fake jersey trade are negligible because lets be honest they could have come down MUCH harder on it before now, had they really wanted/needed to in oprder to protect their brand and profits.

9erssteve

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I wasn't referring to IP theft. Fact is, by purchasing an illegal fake, you are robbing a company of their money. If you were a musician, would you like it if people bought illegal copies of your CD instead of paying you the money for your content? If Derek here has no problem with stealing money off of companies and breaking the law to save a buck, then so be it. But I hope he understands what he's doing and why it's wrong.

It doesn't make it right, but the major sports leagues and apparel manufacturers definitely brought this one upon themselves.

I can agree with this.

Not sure about the musician part, but I guess they would knowingly be ok with something stealing the concept work of someone here on the boards.

On 4/10/2017 at 3:05 PM, Rollins Man said:

what the hell is ccslc?

 

 

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Most of the people I know own fakes are most definitely able to afford the real thing. Also, PROTIP: Don't buy a jersey full-price. Legit places hold sales all the time. Don't be an enabler of IP theft and stop bringing down the value of some of this boards' members. You do realize teams will pay less for design if they're making less off of it, no?

I own a fake or two as well, and another reason I do is that I dont live in the states and getting acces to LEGIT merchandise can be a TOTAL NIGHTMARE! Seriously, until VERY recently the NFL shop DID NOT ship outside the states, and even when it started doing so we didn't have access to the full range of stuff. Even THIS YEAR, the NFL made a big deal out of it's new NFL-UK shop, but so far each team has only REPLICA jerseys available and only for ONE PLAYER PER TEAM! Again at the end of the day it comes down to the NFL (or whichever league) making IT'S LEGITIMATE product more accessable. Price it right, and make it available everywhere (at the same price - ie exchange rate, NOT swapping dollars for local currency) which in this day and age IS NOT HARD and the demand for knock-offs will fall dramatically OVERNIGHT.

For the record I'm not encouraging the trade in fakes for one second, as a designer I'm not about to encourage IP theft, I understand the consequences it has for the design industry only to well. But this issue exists BECAUSE of the way Sports leagues and apparell manufacturers CHOOSE to price and sell THEIR products. It's nothing to do with the designers! If the Leagues and Manufacturers made different decisions then CONSUMERS would too! But until THEY change how they operate the problem wont go away, and using the whole IP theft argument, or going after the consumer is the wrong way to go about solving it. Giving the consumer the real deal at a BETTER price solves the issue!

It's simple supply and demand, if the legitimate producers wont provide a product at a price consumers feel is appropriate, and lets be honest here THEY DONT, $300 for an authentic jersey is CRAZY when you stop and think about it, they leave themselves open to being undercut by fakers. Clearly the NFL feels the losses they are sustaining at present to the fake jersey trade are negligible because lets be honest they could have come down MUCH harder on it before now, had they really wanted/needed to in oprder to protect their brand and profits.

9erssteve

You keep saying that Nike is pricing itself out of the market by making their authentics $300. That's simply not the case. If these prices were so expensive that nobody was buying them then you'd see the price drop to the appropriate level. The fact is that the $300 price level is the right amount for the demand of the product. Of course it doesn't cost anywhere near that to produce, but there are enough people willing to pay that much to justify the price. Reebok was selling authentic jerseys for about the same price for years. I'm sure Nike had all the data they needed of those sales to determine that keeping the price there would maximize their profits on authentic jerseys. An authentic jersey is a luxury item. That's why Nike can price the jerseys so much higher than what they cost to produce. They're not losing out on profit from the authentic jerseys when people buy counterfeits, because those people wouldn't have bought an authentic jersey in the first place.

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on top of that, its pretty foolish to pay $200 to $300 dollars for a real jersey anyway

So....don't buy a jersey. We're not talking about medicine, food, or water here. It's a jersey. A luxury item. You're not entitled to one. If you can't afford one or simply don't want to pay for one because you think the prices are to high, simply don't make the purchase. If enough people follow suit the prices will drop. Economics!

The "steal a loaf of bread to feed your family" example doesn't fly here.

so dont buy a jersey....? what a silly response. Obviously, i'm not buying a jersey, I'm buying a knock off LOL j/k

sometimes you want a little something more then a t-shirt and this provides that option. I'm not worried about it being exacting in design. Its a waste of time to worry about something so trivial.

But again, whats your point ? what are you going to do about it ? who cares if you do ? you posted a picture and typed your "it sucks " diatribe...now what ?

What are you going to do about it ? some people like fakes, some dont. The internet makes mail order 10 million times easier then in the past. Thats all there is to it.

i'm not mocking or trolling anyone here, We are all uniform history enthusiasts. Whats next? another picture of a off center number and your mockery of it ? thrilling....

I'm not sure you understand what kind of message board this is....

As for the IP Theft issue, I can pretty much guanatee that ZERO DESIGNERS are being affected by the sale of knock-off jerseys...

As the Borg would say (TNG 25th anniversary and all) that's irrelevant. Designers probably aren't being effected by the sale of knockoffs, but the intellectual property is still owned by someone. Be it the league, team, or manufacturer. If you want a San Francisco 49ers jersey and have the money to spend on it, then the 49ers, NFL, and Nike deserve your money. You want a good that they own the rights to. Simple.

By buying a fake you cheat the legit owners of the IP out of money they earned by building and marketing a brand you as a consumer wish to buy into.

Now no doubt someone will say "oh, the league/team/manufacturer is a huge corporation, who cares if they lose money?" To which I respond "yeah, well theft is still theft."

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As for the IP Theft issue, I can pretty much guanatee that ZERO DESIGNERS are being affected by the sale of knock-off jerseys...

As the Borg would say (TNG 25th anniversary and all) that's irrelevant. Designers probably aren't being effected by the sale of knockoffs, but the intellectual property is still owned by someone. Be it the league, team, or manufacturer. If you want a San Francisco 49ers jersey and have the money to spend on it, then the 49ers, NFL, and Nike deserve your money. You want a good that they own the rights to. Simple.

By buying a fake you cheat the legit owners of the IP out of money they earned by building and marketing a brand you as a consumer wish to buy into.

Now no doubt someone will say "oh, the league/team/manufacturer is a huge corporation, who cares if they lose money?" To which I respond "yeah, well theft is still theft."

With regards IP theft you're right the whole designer angle is irrelevant. But when a person a couple of posts up claimed it was gonna hurt designers, it kinda ir relevant as it's not truly the case, because sadly designers very very rarely get a percentage from the logo's they produce once they're finished.

Again with regards paying for IP, in this case football jerseys I'm in total agreement. If people want the product they should pay for the real deal. All I'm saying is that the fake trade exists because the price of the real thing is very high, and people cant or wont pay the prices. If Nike or whoever the manufacturer is wanted to end the trade in fakes the simplest and most effective solution would be to make the legitimate product more affordable, but right now they clearly feel the losses they are incurring at the hands of the fake trade are not that great or dont warrant that action.

9erssteve

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You keep saying that Nike is pricing itself out of the market by making their authentics $300. That's simply not the case. If these prices were so expensive that nobody was buying them then you'd see the price drop to the appropriate level. The fact is that the $300 price level is the right amount for the demand of the product. Of course it doesn't cost anywhere near that to produce, but there are enough people willing to pay that much to justify the price. Reebok was selling authentic jerseys for about the same price for years. I'm sure Nike had all the data they needed of those sales to determine that keeping the price there would maximize their profits on authentic jerseys. An authentic jersey is a luxury item. That's why Nike can price the jerseys so much higher than what they cost to produce. They're not losing out on profit from the authentic jerseys when people buy counterfeits, because those people wouldn't have bought an authentic jersey in the first place.

I never said Nike was pricing itself out the market, I said it was pricing a percentage of potential consumers out the market. Big difference, yes people are still buying authentic jerseys and yes it must be profitable or else Nike wouldn't still be doing it, but it doesn't change the fact that it's the price point that is the cause of the Fake trade.

You're right an authentic jersey is a luxury item, but think about it this way, so is a Jaguar motor car. And as expensive as Jaguar motors are, the consumer does not pay more for his than a Pro Racing team that professionally develops, designs tests and races cars. So why is it that sports fans pay more for their jerseys than the teams do? Anyway that's slighty off point so back on track...

it seems to me we actually agree on more than we disagree on. Yes a fair percentage of people buying fakes are not really cutting into Nike's (or Reebok's in the past) profits on authentic jersey sales as they probably wouldn't have bought one at the current price anyway, it doesn't make it right but it does explain why the fakes exist.

They exist because people feel the prices are to high. The fix is lower the prices, but as we've both said right now the losses being made are clearly not big enough for Nike (this time round) to take that step. If prices were lower there wouldn't be a demand for fake products, I think that's a pretty indisputable fact, be it sports jerseys, watches, handbags etc etc.

Again I dont encourage people to do it, I'm just trying to find a reason why the trade exists at all, and right now it's the only explaination I can come up with.

9erssteve

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All I'm saying is that the fake trade exists because the price of the real thing is very high, and people cant or wont pay the prices. If Nike or whoever the manufacturer is wanted to end the trade in fakes the simplest and most effective solution would be to make the legitimate product more affordable, but right now they clearly feel the losses they are incurring at the hands of the fake trade are not that great or dont warrant that action.

Well that's the thing. This thread is full of people saying "I went to a *insert team here* game, and 75% of people were wearing knockoffs." I find those stories to be suspect. At the very least I think the person telling the story is remembering way more fakes then they actually saw.

I say this because it all comes back to economics. Teams, leagues, manufacturers? They all, at the end of the day, exist to make money. If "75%" (or any other shocking large percentage) of a team's fans were buying fakes then the teams and manufacturers would take notice. Sure, Nike likes getting $300 per authentic jersey sold, but if the choices are "lower the price and sell the product" or "keep prices where they are and don't" then they're going to lower their prices. Given that prices for jerseys are still up there, I'm inclined to believe that the vast majority of fans are still willing to pay those high prices for the real deal. Which means, from an economic standpoint, prices are not to high. Maybe we're getting there with Nike's NFL prices, but we're not there yet.

As for "well prices are so high that's why fakes exist," well prices will always be to high for someone. If Nike announced they were dropping the price of authentics down to $75 (a 75% price cut) you would still have people complaining about how they "don't have $75 to spend on a jersey." And those people will use that "high" price of $75 to justify buying a fake for $40.

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Not sure if counterfeit or just stupidity

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On September 20, 2012 at 0:50 AM, 'CS85 said:

It's like watching the hellish undead creakily shuffling their way out of the flames of a liposuction clinic dumpster fire.

On February 19, 2012 at 9:30 AM, 'pianoknight said:

Story B: Red Wings go undefeated and score 100 goals in every game. They also beat a team comprised of Godzilla, the ghost of Abraham Lincoln, 2 Power Rangers and Betty White. Oh, and they played in the middle of Iraq on a military base. In the sand. With no ice. Santa gave them special sand-skates that allowed them to play in shorts and t-shirts in 115 degree weather. Jesus, Zeus and Buddha watched from the sidelines and ate cotton candy.

POTD 5/24/12POTD 2/26/17

 

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All I'm saying is that the fake trade exists because the price of the real thing is very high, and people cant or wont pay the prices. If Nike or whoever the manufacturer is wanted to end the trade in fakes the simplest and most effective solution would be to make the legitimate product more affordable, but right now they clearly feel the losses they are incurring at the hands of the fake trade are not that great or dont warrant that action.

Well that's the thing. This thread is full of people saying "I went to a *insert team here* game, and 75% of people were wearing knockoffs." I find those stories to be suspect. At the very least I think the person telling the story is remembering way more fakes then they actually saw.

I say this because it all comes back to economics. Teams, leagues, manufacturers? They all, at the end of the day, exist to make money. If "75%" (or any other shocking large percentage) of a team's fans were buying fakes then the teams and manufacturers would take notice. Sure, Nike likes getting $300 per authentic jersey sold, but if the choices are "lower the price and sell the product" or "keep prices where they are and don't" then they're going to lower their prices. Given that prices for jerseys are still up there, I'm inclined to believe that the vast majority of fans are still willing to pay those high prices for the real deal. Which means, from an economic standpoint, prices are not to high. Maybe we're getting there with Nike's NFL prices, but we're not there yet.

As for "well prices are so high that's why fakes exist," well prices will always be to high for someone. If Nike announced they were dropping the price of authentics down to $75 (a 75% price cut) you would still have people complaining about how they "don't have $75 to spend on a jersey." And those people will use that "high" price of $75 to justify buying a fake for $40.

You do make a good point, however, if you dropped the prices of jerseys, the amount of fakes would go down dramatically. Would there still be people wearing fakes? Of course, but there will be far less of them.

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As for the IP Theft issue, I can pretty much guanatee that ZERO DESIGNERS are being affected by the sale of knock-off jerseys, as I'll bet every designers that's worked on ANY of the logo's used in any sports league today will have been PAID ALREADY. They'll have recieved a one off fee for the entire project and then signed ownership of the logo OVER TO THE TEAM OR LEAGUE. So yeah IP theft has still occured but it wont have hit the designer in the pocket as he/she doesn't receive a percentage of the profits generated from their work anyway.

Actually not true. If you work for a company that sells those jerseys and offers a bonus based on sales, then you are losing money based on someone buying a counterfeit instead of a legit jersey. Or a counterfeit instead of a t-shirt. Or supporting a bogus business and allowing it to exist.

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As for the IP Theft issue, I can pretty much guanatee that ZERO DESIGNERS are being affected by the sale of knock-off jerseys, as I'll bet every designers that's worked on ANY of the logo's used in any sports league today will have been PAID ALREADY. They'll have recieved a one off fee for the entire project and then signed ownership of the logo OVER TO THE TEAM OR LEAGUE. So yeah IP theft has still occured but it wont have hit the designer in the pocket as he/she doesn't receive a percentage of the profits generated from their work anyway.

Actually not true. If you work for a company that sells those jerseys and offers a bonus based on sales, then you are losing money based on someone buying a counterfeit instead of a legit jersey. Or a counterfeit instead of a t-shirt. Or supporting a bogus business and allowing it to exist.

9ersSteve, that's a really stupid post.

Think about it - teams / leagues have a budget for designs, and a percentage of that budget is allocated to paying the artists or design firms for their work. If they're not selling as much legit stuff due to people buying fakes, then eventually the apparel and license deals go down, and all of a sudden the revenue generated by coming up with a redesign is lower, which means that the budget is lower, which means that the designer gets paid less.

Honestly, to think that everyone involved in producing a design isn't affected by IP theft is ridiculous at best.

"The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed."

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As for the IP Theft issue, I can pretty much guanatee that ZERO DESIGNERS are being affected by the sale of knock-off jerseys, as I'll bet every designers that's worked on ANY of the logo's used in any sports league today will have been PAID ALREADY. They'll have recieved a one off fee for the entire project and then signed ownership of the logo OVER TO THE TEAM OR LEAGUE. So yeah IP theft has still occured but it wont have hit the designer in the pocket as he/she doesn't receive a percentage of the profits generated from their work anyway.

Actually not true. If you work for a company that sells those jerseys and offers a bonus based on sales, then you are losing money based on someone buying a counterfeit instead of a legit jersey. Or a counterfeit instead of a t-shirt. Or supporting a bogus business and allowing it to exist.

Yeah nice Hypothetical, but that's not how the NFL works. The NFL owns the rights to ALL the logos and licences them to Nike for the uniforms. The logo's are designed either in house by designers on a fixed wage, or by an outside agency who are paid a one off fee.

As for the IP Theft issue, I can pretty much guanatee that ZERO DESIGNERS are being affected by the sale of knock-off jerseys, as I'll bet every designers that's worked on ANY of the logo's used in any sports league today will have been PAID ALREADY. They'll have recieved a one off fee for the entire project and then signed ownership of the logo OVER TO THE TEAM OR LEAGUE. So yeah IP theft has still occured but it wont have hit the designer in the pocket as he/she doesn't receive a percentage of the profits generated from their work anyway.

Actually not true. If you work for a company that sells those jerseys and offers a bonus based on sales, then you are losing money based on someone buying a counterfeit instead of a legit jersey. Or a counterfeit instead of a t-shirt. Or supporting a bogus business and allowing it to exist.

9ersSteve, that's a really stupid post.

Think about it - teams / leagues have a budget for designs, and a percentage of that budget is allocated to paying the artists or design firms for their work. If they're not selling as much legit stuff due to people buying fakes, then eventually the apparel and license deals go down, and all of a sudden the revenue generated by coming up with a redesign is lower, which means that the budget is lower, which means that the designer gets paid less.

Honestly, to think that everyone involved in producing a design isn't affected by IP theft is ridiculous at best.

In the long term yeah you're 100% correct, but people were talking in here like designers recieve a percentage of every jersey sold, in real time, and that's not the case. That was what I meant by that statement, sorry if I wasn't 100% clear on that. But with that said lets be honest here, Nike or whoever the manufacturer is would be likely to take DRASTIC action against counterfieters LONG before the trickle down in losses made a serious dent in what they pay designers, for two reasons.

1. they pay designers a MINISCULE amount compared with the profits they generate from the goods they sell with the designs on them, so

2. If they ever lost the kind of money required to reduce the amount profit they make to the point where budgets for design are slashed they'd have far bigger things to worry about than paying designers!

The facts are, Authentic jerseys are priced high, in order to make them a luxury item, the result is that it leaves them open to having their goods counterfieted. It's NOT RIGHT, but that is the cause. Does it harm the design industry?YES.

But I'd argue the harm it does affects smaller designers FAR more. Nike/Reebok/Addidas etc etc's INACTION with regards IP theft (because right now it's not hurting their balance books enough) means that counterfieters think it's OK to steal ANYONE'S work! Smaller designer's are losing out thru IP theft of their work and there's NOTHING THEY CAN DO, because if BIG COMPANIES let it slide then the courts dont take IP THEFT SERIOUSLY ENOUGH!

As a result you end up with situations like Davidson posted about this morning where HIS designs are ripped off again! Now I dont want to speculate as to Davidson's financial situation but I bet he cant afford to lose out on the time and what should rightfully be his money in the way Nike can! Becuase (in this case) Nike dont (or wont) do anything about it, you can bet Davidson has little hope of stopping those using his work without permission, or seeing any money for his work if they do keep using it.

If you ask me THAT is the real harm that's being done to the design industry in this. Intelectual Property is not being protected in the way it SHOULD, because it isn't affect big companies profit lines, and that is WRONG. This is something big corporations COULD do a number of things to stop, TOMORROW if they wanted to, but wont, because there's no real financial benefit in it for them and that's all they care about. At the end of the day they're screwing the designers of the world too, they're just doing it in different ways.

9erssteve

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