The Big Ol' Counterfeit Jersey Thread

[kw11333]

I have brought up the price issue before. I for one have never bought a counterfeit jersey (and never will), but if there is any good that comes of this situation, it's that it SHOULD force Nike and Reebok to not overcharge for their jerseys.

Reebok has even marked up the old CCM retro jerseys. Those cost practically nothing to make Pre 2002, you could get a name on a replica jersey for $100, in 2006 it was $179-$199, and now it's over $200

That's a 100%+ markup in just 11 years.

[charger77]

How did the thread title get changed?

[logocruncher]

I'm really astonished by the level of self-righteousness that exists on this thread regarding counterfeit jerseys. I have bought counterfeit jerseys in the past, and am not particularly ashamed to admit it. I don't feel like I'm less of a 'true fan' because I've done this; supporting my team and being an athletics aesthetics enthusiast don't make me any more willing to drop literally hundreds of dollars on a jersey, no matter how close it is to what's worn on the field. In fact, I sort of feel that buying into the absurdly-overpriced authentic jersey trade fosters the idea that fandom is something that can be bought and sold. What I AM opposed to is when fans make an uneducated decision and buy a counterfeit accidentally - this reflects a lack of attention to aesthetic details that concerns me a lot more than people's unwillingness to spend big bucks on a glorified shirt.

As for the intellectual property dilemma, in principle I agree that buying and selling counterfeits constitutes theft. But somehow I'm unable to find any remorse for my actions when they're harming Nike and Adidas, two immoral and exploitative companies that could easily diminish the counterfeit problem by lowering the prices of their products.

[charger77]

So justifying IP theft?

[Hat Boy]

So justifying IP theft?

A number of people have mentioned IP in their argument, but aren't counterfit jerseys more about trademark protection than intellectual property? Nike paid for the manufacturing rights to NFL merchandise, most of which were not designed by anyone at Nike.

Both are certainly illegal, but I am just trying to clarify terminology.

[Waleslax]

I'm really astonished by the level of self-righteousness that exists on this thread regarding counterfeit jerseys. I have bought counterfeit jerseys in the past, and am not particularly ashamed to admit it. I don't feel like I'm less of a 'true fan' because I've done this; supporting my team and being an athletics aesthetics enthusiast don't make me any more willing to drop literally hundreds of dollars on a jersey, no matter how close it is to what's worn on the field. In fact, I sort of feel that buying into the absurdly-overpriced authentic jersey trade fosters the idea that fandom is something that can be bought and sold. What I AM opposed to is when fans make an uneducated decision and buy a counterfeit accidentally - this reflects a lack of attention to aesthetic details that concerns me a lot more than people's unwillingness to spend big bucks on a glorified shirt.

As for the intellectual property dilemma, in principle I agree that buying and selling counterfeits constitutes theft. But somehow I'm unable to find any remorse for my actions when they're harming Nike and Adidas, two immoral and exploitative companies that could easily diminish the counterfeit problem by lowering the prices of their products.

That's fine, just remember that you can never again complain about your job getting outsourced or sent overseas. Same thing - workers in the US cost a lot, and as a consultant, if I can send your job to India or China, it saves the company a TON of money... which is totally cool, right?

I mean, unions specifically, and US workers in general could bring down the "outsourcing issue" themselves, if they wanted, by lowering the price of their services (the work).

[imawalkingcorpse]

I'm really astonished by the level of self-righteousness that exists on this thread regarding counterfeit jerseys. I have bought counterfeit jerseys in the past, and am not particularly ashamed to admit it. I don't feel like I'm less of a 'true fan' because I've done this; supporting my team and being an athletics aesthetics enthusiast don't make me any more willing to drop literally hundreds of dollars on a jersey, no matter how close it is to what's worn on the field. In fact, I sort of feel that buying into the absurdly-overpriced authentic jersey trade fosters the idea that fandom is something that can be bought and sold. What I AM opposed to is when fans make an uneducated decision and buy a counterfeit accidentally - this reflects a lack of attention to aesthetic details that concerns me a lot more than people's unwillingness to spend big bucks on a glorified shirt.

As for the intellectual property dilemma, in principle I agree that buying and selling counterfeits constitutes theft. But somehow I'm unable to find any remorse for my actions when they're harming Nike and Adidas, two immoral and exploitative companies that could easily diminish the counterfeit problem by lowering the prices of their products.

That's fine, just remember that you can never again complain about your job getting outsourced or sent overseas. Same thing - workers in the US cost a lot, and as a consultant, if I can send your job to India or China, it saves the company a TON of money... which is totally cool, right?

I mean, unions specifically, and US workers in general could bring down the "outsourcing issue" themselves, if they wanted, by lowering the price of their services (the work).

Except for the only American people that make any money at the non-corporate people are the package handlers. All of the material and workmanship is done overseas on your officially liscensed products. Now of course the smaller mom and pop type of stores that sell these lose money due to the counterfeiting garbage. I WAS one of those type of stores, but I closed down in 2000 long before the counterfeiting thing was huge. Which is why I will never buy a counterfeit item, nor will I spend 30 dollars on a shirt that cost 4-6$ to produce and ship here.

[Anubis2051]

I'm really astonished by the level of self-righteousness that exists on this thread regarding counterfeit jerseys. I have bought counterfeit jerseys in the past, and am not particularly ashamed to admit it. I don't feel like I'm less of a 'true fan' because I've done this; supporting my team and being an athletics aesthetics enthusiast don't make me any more willing to drop literally hundreds of dollars on a jersey, no matter how close it is to what's worn on the field. In fact, I sort of feel that buying into the absurdly-overpriced authentic jersey trade fosters the idea that fandom is something that can be bought and sold. What I AM opposed to is when fans make an uneducated decision and buy a counterfeit accidentally - this reflects a lack of attention to aesthetic details that concerns me a lot more than people's unwillingness to spend big bucks on a glorified shirt.

As for the intellectual property dilemma, in principle I agree that buying and selling counterfeits constitutes theft. But somehow I'm unable to find any remorse for my actions when they're harming Nike and Adidas, two immoral and exploitative companies that could easily diminish the counterfeit problem by lowering the prices of their products.

That's fine, just remember that you can never again complain about your job getting outsourced or sent overseas. Same thing - workers in the US cost a lot, and as a consultant, if I can send your job to India or China, it saves the company a TON of money... which is totally cool, right?

I mean, unions specifically, and US workers in general could bring down the "outsourcing issue" themselves, if they wanted, by lowering the price of their services (the work).

Your argument falls apart once you realize that Nike/Reebok/Majestic all make their jerseys overseas, and then charge an exorbitant amount of money for them. That said, all my jerseys are real. Some are authentic, some replicas. But I do understand why people would buy a knockoff.

[BigBubba]

I am a huge jersey collector. You know what? Spending $200 on a replica stinks. But that doesn't justify buying a "Reebko" fake. There are so many ways to get quality jerseys for cheap: eBay/Kijiji, thrift stores, end-of-season team clearances, websites such as SportsK.com, etc. It's not like the only way to get a jersey is to spend $200 on a brand new one. I own 22 jerseys (all licensed). Take out inherited/gifted ones, and I have 14 (jerseys I purchased myself). Eleven of those were bought for less than $100. You can build up a nice jersey collection without burning a hole in your wallet.

[nash61]

I am a huge jersey collector. You know what? Spending $200 on a replica stinks. But that doesn't justify buying a "Reebko" fake. There are so many ways to get quality jerseys for cheap: eBay/Kijiji, thrift stores, end-of-season team clearances, websites such as SportsK.com, etc. It's not like the only way to get a jersey is to spend $200 on a brand new one. I own 22 jerseys (all licensed). Take out inherited/gifted ones, and I have 14 (jerseys I purchased myself). Eleven of those were bought for less than $100. You can build up a nice jersey collection without burning a hole in your wallet.

This. I have a personal limit of $50 per jersey. I have 15 jerseys (all licensed), and have never gone over my $50 limit. Highlights include a free Leafs jersey, a $3 Opera-Dog Coyotes jersey, a $5 Cape Breton Screaming Eagles jersey, and a $15 Robo-Pen jersey.

[OnWis97]

I'm really astonished by the level of self-righteousness that exists on this thread regarding counterfeit jerseys. I have bought counterfeit jerseys in the past, and am not particularly ashamed to admit it. I don't feel like I'm less of a 'true fan' because I've done this; supporting my team and being an athletics aesthetics enthusiast don't make me any more willing to drop literally hundreds of dollars on a jersey, no matter how close it is to what's worn on the field. In fact, I sort of feel that buying into the absurdly-overpriced authentic jersey trade fosters the idea that fandom is something that can be bought and sold. What I AM opposed to is when fans make an uneducated decision and buy a counterfeit accidentally - this reflects a lack of attention to aesthetic details that concerns me a lot more than people's unwillingness to spend big bucks on a glorified shirt.

As for the intellectual property dilemma, in principle I agree that buying and selling counterfeits constitutes theft. But somehow I'm unable to find any remorse for my actions when they're harming Nike and Adidas, two immoral and exploitative companies that could easily diminish the counterfeit problem by lowering the prices of their products.

Admittedly, I have not read all of the replies, but I don't think most of the "self-righteous" posters equate any of this with being a "true fan". I am a "true Twins fan" regardless of what kind of jersey I buy. Likewise, if I buy an Blue Jays jersey, I am not a true fan...just a guy who likes the Blue Jays jersey...regardless of whether they are real or counterfeit.

The issue the "self-righteous" have is that supporting an industry that simply steals the intellectual property of others 1) impacts the incentive for creativity and the hard work that goes into building brands and 2) rewards lazy thieves.

Self-righteous? The self-righteousness I am seeing is "no I am just sticking it to the man." This is otherwise known as rationalizing so one does not have to pay a lot of money for a product.

I don't have love for Nike and Adidas either. But where's that line drawn? Someone already brought it up with illegal downloads in music..."the musicians are millionaires anyway." Sure U2 and Bruce Springsteen, but very few really are.

Are jerseys overpriced? Yeah. But they are luxury items. Items that you don't need. If people don't buy the jerseys, then the prices could come down. But it's laughable that people think by purchasing counterfeits they are doing something noble (then maybe those evil bastards will bring the prices down!). They are not. They are rationalizing their own actions out of convenience.

And if you think that is self-righteous, just wait until you hear this one...I don't support walking into stores and stealing jerseys and CDs either!

[charger77]

I am a huge jersey collector. You know what? Spending $200 on a replica stinks. But that doesn't justify buying a "Reebko" fake. There are so many ways to get quality jerseys for cheap: eBay/Kijiji, thrift stores, end-of-season team clearances, websites such as SportsK.com, etc. It's not like the only way to get a jersey is to spend $200 on a brand new one. I own 22 jerseys (all licensed). Take out inherited/gifted ones, and I have 14 (jerseys I purchased myself). Eleven of those were bought for less than $100. You can build up a nice jersey collection without burning a hole in your wallet.

This. I have a personal limit of $50 per jersey. I have 15 jerseys (all licensed), and have never gone over my $50 limit. Highlights include a free Leafs jersey, a $3 Opera-Dog Coyotes jersey, a $5 Cape Breton Screaming Eagles jersey, and a $15 Robo-Pen jersey.

Agreed 1000 times over. I have 196 Hockey jerseys in my collection and due to ebay, sales and bargain hunting I have not paid full price in years.

[walby2]

So justifying IP theft?

There are good reasons not to buy knockoff jerseys (the quality of said product being #1), but potentially infringing on the legal rights of Nike, Reebok or their subsidiaries is near the bottom of that list.

[ADW77]

I am a huge jersey collector. You know what? Spending $200 on a replica stinks. But that doesn't justify buying a "Reebko" fake. There are so many ways to get quality jerseys for cheap: eBay/Kijiji, thrift stores, end-of-season team clearances, websites such as SportsK.com, etc. It's not like the only way to get a jersey is to spend $200 on a brand new one. I own 22 jerseys (all licensed). Take out inherited/gifted ones, and I have 14 (jerseys I purchased myself). Eleven of those were bought for less than $100. You can build up a nice jersey collection without burning a hole in your wallet.

This. I have a personal limit of $50 per jersey. I have 15 jerseys (all licensed), and have never gone over my $50 limit. Highlights include a free Leafs jersey, a $3 Opera-Dog Coyotes jersey, a $5 Cape Breton Screaming Eagles jersey, and a $15 Robo-Pen jersey.

Agreed 1000 times over. I have 196 Hockey jerseys in my collection and due to ebay, sales and bargain hunting I have not paid full price in years.

The only jersey I've ever paid full price for was the AFL Legacy yellow Champ Bailey jersey, and that's simply because that was my only avenue to getting it.

Every single jersey I have beyond that I've not paid full price for. I've even bought brand new ones from the Broncos store at the stadium for 50% on Black Friday. I actually bought four jerseys that morning.

eBay is really the best place to find real jerseys for cheaper prices.

I have never and will never buy a counterfeit jersey.

[Waleslax]

I'm really astonished by the level of self-righteousness that exists on this thread regarding counterfeit jerseys. I have bought counterfeit jerseys in the past, and am not particularly ashamed to admit it. I don't feel like I'm less of a 'true fan' because I've done this; supporting my team and being an athletics aesthetics enthusiast don't make me any more willing to drop literally hundreds of dollars on a jersey, no matter how close it is to what's worn on the field. In fact, I sort of feel that buying into the absurdly-overpriced authentic jersey trade fosters the idea that fandom is something that can be bought and sold. What I AM opposed to is when fans make an uneducated decision and buy a counterfeit accidentally - this reflects a lack of attention to aesthetic details that concerns me a lot more than people's unwillingness to spend big bucks on a glorified shirt.

As for the intellectual property dilemma, in principle I agree that buying and selling counterfeits constitutes theft. But somehow I'm unable to find any remorse for my actions when they're harming Nike and Adidas, two immoral and exploitative companies that could easily diminish the counterfeit problem by lowering the prices of their products.

That's fine, just remember that you can never again complain about your job getting outsourced or sent overseas. Same thing - workers in the US cost a lot, and as a consultant, if I can send your job to India or China, it saves the company a TON of money... which is totally cool, right?

I mean, unions specifically, and US workers in general could bring down the "outsourcing issue" themselves, if they wanted, by lowering the price of their services (the work).

Except for the only American people that make any money at the non-corporate people are the package handlers. All of the material and workmanship is done overseas on your officially liscensed products. Now of course the smaller mom and pop type of stores that sell these lose money due to the counterfeiting garbage. I WAS one of those type of stores, but I closed down in 2000 long before the counterfeiting thing was huge. Which is why I will never buy a counterfeit item, nor will I spend 30 dollars on a shirt that cost 4-6$ to produce and ship here.

I'm really astonished by the level of self-righteousness that exists on this thread regarding counterfeit jerseys. I have bought counterfeit jerseys in the past, and am not particularly ashamed to admit it. I don't feel like I'm less of a 'true fan' because I've done this; supporting my team and being an athletics aesthetics enthusiast don't make me any more willing to drop literally hundreds of dollars on a jersey, no matter how close it is to what's worn on the field. In fact, I sort of feel that buying into the absurdly-overpriced authentic jersey trade fosters the idea that fandom is something that can be bought and sold. What I AM opposed to is when fans make an uneducated decision and buy a counterfeit accidentally - this reflects a lack of attention to aesthetic details that concerns me a lot more than people's unwillingness to spend big bucks on a glorified shirt.

As for the intellectual property dilemma, in principle I agree that buying and selling counterfeits constitutes theft. But somehow I'm unable to find any remorse for my actions when they're harming Nike and Adidas, two immoral and exploitative companies that could easily diminish the counterfeit problem by lowering the prices of their products.

That's fine, just remember that you can never again complain about your job getting outsourced or sent overseas. Same thing - workers in the US cost a lot, and as a consultant, if I can send your job to India or China, it saves the company a TON of money... which is totally cool, right?

I mean, unions specifically, and US workers in general could bring down the "outsourcing issue" themselves, if they wanted, by lowering the price of their services (the work).

Your argument falls apart once you realize that Nike/Reebok/Majestic all make their jerseys overseas, and then charge an exorbitant amount of money for them. That said, all my jerseys are real. Some are authentic, some replicas. But I do understand why people would buy a knockoff.

Except that, you know, Nike employs 44,000 people worldwide, and 6,000 in the US, engaged in management, research, design, development, marketing, finance, and other administrative functions from nearly all of our divisions.

(http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/320187/000119312511194791/d10k.htm)

Reebok doesn't report on the number of employees they have, but their parent company, Adidas has 39,596 employees worldwide, including ~7,000 in the Reebok division.

(http://quicktake.morningstar.com/stocknet/secdocuments.aspx?symbol=addyy)

All of those people's jobs rely on the companies profits, so I'm going to have to cordially disagree with your thought that my "argument falls apart there" or "the only people who make any money are."

I get it, it's wrong in today's America to take the side of the "big, bad company," but there are a lot of people working for those companies that rely on things like sales.

I would have to see the Triad's 10k to know how many people they employ and what taxes they are paying back to society, but admittedly, those have been hard to find.

[MJWalker45]

Anyone know a site I can at least get at least half decent if not better knock off nfl jerseys just to use as a training jersey

just go to Ross, Marshall's or TJ Maxx.

[Buster]

Anyone know a site I can at least get at least half decent if not better knock off nfl jerseys just to use as a training jersey

just go to Ross, Marshall's or TJ Maxx.

That's the place that stocks a rack full of Phillip Rivers jerseys...in Pennsylvania.

[PhlyBoy]

Flipping through the channels, World Series of Poker is on ESPN right now and one guy playing has on an away counterfeit Lions jersey.

[BJ Sands]

Flipping through the channels, World Series of Poker is on ESPN right now and one guy playing has on an away counterfeit Lions jersey.

I was coming here just to post that. And it's a very bad fake, too.

[illini1]

I'm in Hanoi, Vietnam for two weeks. I could fill 10 pages with pictures of fake jerseys. They're sold on almost every street. They even have fake Apple stores here.