The Big Ol' Counterfeit Jersey Thread

[Drakonius26]

Icecap and Charger77 are hunched over their keyboards burning up the keys about now...

No, not really.

It's simple, really. The NFL has the right to grant a single manufacturer their exclusive licence. It's their IP. They're free to do with it what they want. I'm really not getting why this is such a hard concept to grasp.

Not to mention, when people talk about the 2K Sports vs. EA Sports they ALWAYS seem to gloss over that fact. Forget the fact that EA Sports produced critically acclaimed versions of football simulations year-after-year, and 2K took about four years to finally get it right, but they try to complain that was EA Sports did was illegal.

No, it's perfectly legal. If EA Sports/DirecTV/Reebok are the only companies that can represent a high-level of quality with the NFL's products, then it's the NFL's right to be able to strike an exclusive deal with that said company. Regardless of how you few the companies I mentioned, the fact still remains that if the NFL is ever called out for doing so, the league will probably be able to show that rival companies complaining about the licensing agreement didn't represent the NFL well with their quality of products. Granted, it can lead to customers being forced to pay higher costs, and can lead to a lack of quality competition, but it does keep some two-bit hack producing a piece of crap in their garage and selling whatever it might be to the general public as "authentic." Obviously, is a person buys that, they're going to complain about the quality of said product, and indirectly cause damage to the NFL's brand.

Weak. Real weak. The ONLY reason for granting exclusive deals is to jack up prices. Period.

You just glossed over the fact that I was trying to explain to you. Beyond higher costs, it keeps people from trying to take advantage of others by using the NFL's brand. Plus, Ice mentioned that the league would want to streamline their agreements with a select group of companies and how much that can cost. Them raising the prices of their goods and getting more money from the consumer is icing on the cake, so to speak.

By the way, prior to the 2005 versions of 2K Sports and EA Sports football simulations/video games, both priced their goods at 49.99, 2K Sports only priced theirs at 19.99 because they were getting the beat out of them year after year by EA Sports. Not only did 2K Sports not truly beat EA Sports in 2005 (many publications gave Sports Game of the Year Awards to both of those games, plus, Madden 2005 had a higher AQR in the end), but EA Sports had a track record of producing quality football games. Therefore, it was only natural that the NFL would work an arrangement out like that with them.

"For all of its excellent modes and gameplay, which are not as great as Madden 2005, however, ESPN NFL 2K5's greatest asset comes in the form of its graphics. Hands down, flat out, undeniably, unarguably, this is the best-looking football game ever made. I'm not saying 2K5 is better than Madden - but it's finally, just as good."

Alex Navarro - GameInformer

[Brass]

We're arguing video games and counterfeit jerseys now? That's like arguing apples and pineapples. Sure, they sound similar, but they're totally different.

[Drakonius26]

We're arguing video games and counterfeit jerseys now? That's like arguing apples and pineapples. Sure, they sound similar, but they're totally different.

Not really. BlueSky had simply posted on the previous page that he believed the only reason to have an exclusive license is to simply take advantage of the consumer and raise prices. He also used the old comparison of 2K Sports and EA Sports 2005 football games as an example of his claim, while Ice and I refuted that claim by stating the other reasons why the NFL would want exclusive licensing agreements with other companies. That's all.

[BBTV]

I want to gouge my eyes out after reading this crap.

Of course one of the reasons to grant an exclusive license is to make the price higher! It's called business, goddam business.

Of course it's better for the consumer if there's no exclusive license, but that's completely irrelevant to the discussion, and frankly, I really don't think that you have the faculties to participate in this discussion anymore. If we are discussing ways that leagues could reduce the amount of counterfeiting, and one of those ways was to allow multiple licensees to make products therefore lowering the prices, then maybe it'd be relevant. But we're not. And what you're failing to grasp is that a lot of times retailers / manufacturers don't have the right to lower their prices in order to compete. Many times, retail stores prices are set by the manufacturer - they can't just have a sale on a certain item unless the manufacturer says it's OK (it's not like this with everything, but with a lot of things.) In this case, it could be part of the licensing agreement that prices remain at a certain point so as not to "cheapen" the NFL's brand (they don't want to be looked at as a league who's gear is worth $9.99 or something like that.) So if a Puma jersey was on sale for $65, chances are that the Nike, Reebok, Majestic, etc. versions would be too.

We're having different discussions here, and frankly, you're off base on both of them. You're arguing the legality and ethics of something that you just "don't like". There's a lot of things we all "don't like", but that doesn't lessen the legitimacy of them.

[number81]

NPR article on Counterfeit Jerseys.

http://www.npr.org/2011/02/06/133495229/counterfeit-jerseys-can-you-tell-the-difference?ft=1&f=1001

"In one instance where we've purchased goods, we've found that the ISP was U.S., the phone number was listed in the U.S., but the people answering the phone were Russian, the credit card that we gave them was processed in Israel, and the goods were shipped from somewhere in Asia," he says.

[DeFrank]

I buy replica or premier from NFL shop. I know the quality I will get, and I can afford them.

I buy Madden every year, and I love it despite the huge problems that piss me off. Although I do miss the previous gen. Maddens. 04-07 were great with Franchise mode, and I wish they just applied that. But that's another thread.

[pheer]

Anyone else feeling like this lately?

[Brass]

We're arguing video games and counterfeit jerseys now? That's like arguing apples and pineapples. Sure, they sound similar, but they're totally different.

Not really. BlueSky had simply posted on the previous page that he believed the only reason to have an exclusive license is to simply take advantage of the consumer and raise prices. He also used the old comparison of 2K Sports and EA Sports 2005 football games as an example of his claim, while Ice and I refuted that claim by stating the other reasons why the NFL would want exclusive licensing agreements with other companies. That's all.

It still goes back to this - this is a board for people who enjoy sports logos. Sports and logos. So why would you support something where the profits go to neither? It makes absolutely no sense. I'm going to try not to say things that have already been said a thousand times in this thread, but it's wrong to buy counterfeit jerseys. When you decide what sports team you like you're not automatically entitled to anything. Not tickets, not hats, not jerseys.

[Pizzaman7294]

why cant people just buy from real retailers?

[JQK]

why cant people just buy from real retailers?

Because we can't afford the "real" thing...

[DG_ThenNowForever]

why cant people just buy from real retailers?

Because over the past 30 years, real wages have gone down and commodity prices have gone up.

[Drakonius26]

We're arguing video games and counterfeit jerseys now? That's like arguing apples and pineapples. Sure, they sound similar, but they're totally different.

Not really. BlueSky had simply posted on the previous page that he believed the only reason to have an exclusive license is to simply take advantage of the consumer and raise prices. He also used the old comparison of 2K Sports and EA Sports 2005 football games as an example of his claim, while Ice and I refuted that claim by stating the other reasons why the NFL would want exclusive licensing agreements with other companies. That's all.

It still goes back to this - this is a board for people who enjoy sports logos. Sports and logos. So why would you support something where the profits go to neither? It makes absolutely no sense. I'm going to try not to say things that have already been said a thousand times in this thread, but it's wrong to buy counterfeit jerseys. When you decide what sports team you like you're not automatically entitled to anything. Not tickets, not hats, not jerseys.

If you're talking about my support of Madden, then that's because making the 2K Sports/EA Sports argument in a thread about Sports and Logos is not only off-base, but irrelevant to this discussion. Personally, a pet-peeve of mine is when people start an argument or discussion about a topic and then introduce something that's unrelated, because of their obvious hatred of that unrelated item. Especially when that item isn't bad, nor is it the main reason why exclusive licensing is a bad thing. Like I said before, I didn't start the discussion of video games, it was BlueSky. I've mostly kept quiet and enjoyed looking at some of the terrible counterfeit jerseys pictured in this thread, but I'm not going to stay quiet after a stupid and unrelated remark like that. BBTV said it the best, it's a business, and those kind of agreement are also made to not "cheapen" the NFL's brand. I understand the arguments for both sides, but I'm not going to standby and watch as someone makes a stupid statement like that, when it fits under the aforementioned qualities.

By the way, I don't endorse counterfeit jerseys, nor do I think I'm entitled to have a ticket, hat, or jersey, so I'm not sure where you're getting that from.

[Brass]

We're arguing video games and counterfeit jerseys now? That's like arguing apples and pineapples. Sure, they sound similar, but they're totally different.

Not really. BlueSky had simply posted on the previous page that he believed the only reason to have an exclusive license is to simply take advantage of the consumer and raise prices. He also used the old comparison of 2K Sports and EA Sports 2005 football games as an example of his claim, while Ice and I refuted that claim by stating the other reasons why the NFL would want exclusive licensing agreements with other companies. That's all.

It still goes back to this - this is a board for people who enjoy sports logos. Sports and logos. So why would you support something where the profits go to neither? It makes absolutely no sense. I'm going to try not to say things that have already been said a thousand times in this thread, but it's wrong to buy counterfeit jerseys. When you decide what sports team you like you're not automatically entitled to anything. Not tickets, not hats, not jerseys.

If you're talking about my support of Madden, then that's because making the 2K Sports/EA Sports argument in a thread about Sports and Logos is not only off-base, but irrelevant to this discussion. Personally, a pet-peeve of mine is when people start an argument or discussion about a topic and then introduce something that's unrelated, because of their obvious hatred of that unrelated item. Especially when that item isn't bad, nor is it the main reason why exclusive licensing is a bad thing. Like I said before, I didn't start the discussion of video games, it was BlueSky. I've mostly kept quiet and enjoyed looking at some of the terrible counterfeit jerseys pictured in this thread, but I'm not going to stay quiet after a stupid and unrelated remark like that. BBTV said it the best, it's a business, and those kind of agreement are also made to not "cheapen" the NFL's brand. I understand the arguments for both sides, but I'm not going to standby and watch as someone makes a stupid statement like that, when it fits under the aforementioned qualities.

By the way, I don't endorse counterfeit jerseys, nor do I think I'm entitled to have a ticket, hat, or jersey, so I'm not sure where you're getting that from.

That wasn't directed towards you. It was a general statement to those who think it's ok to support intellectual property theft.

One question for the people complaining, though, about the price of the jerseys on the current marketplace - how many times have you guys contacted the jersey suppliers and aired your grievances about the price?

[Drakonius26]

We're arguing video games and counterfeit jerseys now? That's like arguing apples and pineapples. Sure, they sound similar, but they're totally different.

Not really. BlueSky had simply posted on the previous page that he believed the only reason to have an exclusive license is to simply take advantage of the consumer and raise prices. He also used the old comparison of 2K Sports and EA Sports 2005 football games as an example of his claim, while Ice and I refuted that claim by stating the other reasons why the NFL would want exclusive licensing agreements with other companies. That's all.

It still goes back to this - this is a board for people who enjoy sports logos. Sports and logos. So why would you support something where the profits go to neither? It makes absolutely no sense. I'm going to try not to say things that have already been said a thousand times in this thread, but it's wrong to buy counterfeit jerseys. When you decide what sports team you like you're not automatically entitled to anything. Not tickets, not hats, not jerseys.

If you're talking about my support of Madden, then that's because making the 2K Sports/EA Sports argument in a thread about Sports and Logos is not only off-base, but irrelevant to this discussion. Personally, a pet-peeve of mine is when people start an argument or discussion about a topic and then introduce something that's unrelated, because of their obvious hatred of that unrelated item. Especially when that item isn't bad, nor is it the main reason why exclusive licensing is a bad thing. Like I said before, I didn't start the discussion of video games, it was BlueSky. I've mostly kept quiet and enjoyed looking at some of the terrible counterfeit jerseys pictured in this thread, but I'm not going to stay quiet after a stupid and unrelated remark like that. BBTV said it the best, it's a business, and those kind of agreement are also made to not "cheapen" the NFL's brand. I understand the arguments for both sides, but I'm not going to standby and watch as someone makes a stupid statement like that, when it fits under the aforementioned qualities.

By the way, I don't endorse counterfeit jerseys, nor do I think I'm entitled to have a ticket, hat, or jersey, so I'm not sure where you're getting that from.

That wasn't directed towards you. It was a general statement to those who think it's ok to support intellectual property theft.

One question for the people complaining, though, about the price of the jerseys on the current marketplace - how many times have you guys contacted the jersey suppliers and aired your grievances about the price?

I'd more or less want someone to discuss with me, not just the prices, but the true merits of let's say a Reebok "Premier" compared to "Authentic" jerseys that are offered. There obviously is a reason for the price gap, but what exactly constitute such a gap. Just out of curiosity, not to step on anyone's toes.

[charger77]

why cant people just buy from real retailers?

Because over the past 30 years, real wages have gone down and commodity prices have gone up.

Real wages going down and prices going up is justification for purchasing counterfit items?

[loogodude90]

Yes.

[charger77]

Yes.

I hope you get robbed one day and the thief leaves a note that says:

Dear homeowner,

I really like your stuff but I can't afford it so I just helped myself to whats in your garage.

P.S. If you're going to blame anybody blame companies for charging too much and my boss for not paying me enough. If you really think about it... it not really my fault. Besides what do you care about being robbed for, people are speeding!

[tvko]

Haha yeah, that's a really rational argument that isn't exaggerated! I love ad hominem attacks!

[Lights Out]

Since when are metaphors (aka -Dan's post) the same as ad hominem attacks?

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Boy, there's a lot of "I disagree, sir. Also, go yourself" in this thread. I'm not normally a thread nanny, but can we bring the discourse up a bit here?

Anyway, yes, in part, there's a disconnect between the prices of goods and the purchasing power of people those goods are being marketed to. I think -- and I'm pretty sure I've said it before in this thread -- that the proliferation of counterfeit jerseys (especially NFL jerseys) is indicative of how far out of whack the supply (especially price) is to demand (especially willingness to pay).