The Big Ol' Counterfeit Jersey Thread

[Lights Out]

I am NEVER going to buy a crappy replica for $80 or a slightly better authentic for $300

Then you're not entitled to own a jersey. Sorry, that's life.

[LoveTheFakes]

Well, all I know is that if any of you guys who think buying counterfeit jerseys are ok, I'm going to take any logos you've ever designed, put them on t-shirts and sell them for dirt cheap. Guess how much you guys are going to make, aka, the people who own the logo or have designed it? Zero dollars and zero cents.

No one has answered my question concerning designers, how many of the current MAJOR sports logos designers are paid royalties on each jersey purchased? I am guessing 0 so I am not hurting the designers in any way.

This is not true.

Say team A is wiling to pay $50k for a great new logo and uniform design. This is based on their analysis that a new look will spur $1,000,000 in sales in the next year. The new logo is a hit, but the counterfeiters are all over it, so sales of legit licensed gear only net $500,000. This will lead to one of two things - either the team (or the next team in a similar situation) will offer the designer (or firm) $25k for the next package, or the licensees will absorb the cost and offer significantly less next time around. Either way there's less money to pay the designer, which has a trickle down effect on the industry as a whole.

It's a shame that most of the strong debaters checked out of this thread ages ago. After reading the last few pages, I'm thinking about ordering some fakes.

Not really.

I don't see how the design is worth less based on previous sales not hitting their mark.

I am NEVER going to buy a crappy replica for $80 or a slightly better authentic for $300 when I can get a good knock off for $20-25. Since I am NEVER going to do that they are not losing any sales from me buying knock offs.

1. It's pretty simple. Businesses budget certain amounts for certain things. The amount that gets budgeted is usually based on the value that the project ads. If it's considered a reinvestment in the organization, then the ROI is what's important. Cut that ROI in half by taking away would-be sales, and the design budget gets cut in half. Sure a designer could say "I don't care about your ROI - my design work is still worth $50k" and just about any company would say "well we have $25k budgeted. If you can do it for $25 we can talk, otherwise NEXT".

2. You can't say what you'll never do until you have no other options. Even if you wouldn't, there are other buyers of fakes who would. It's the same story with streaming PPVs - "I wouldn't buy the fight / wrestling match anyway, so I'm allowed to watch it for free".

I just don't see how you can possibly claim that you're not a troll. You signed up as "LoveTheFakes," post arrogant, condescending crap that shows you just don't get it, and you've never posted outside this thread. My troll radar is going off.

Can we stop with the troll talk? I'm starting to hate the sound of that word after reading it over and over again. He's not making irrational points here. I vehemently disagree with them, but certainly you can see how there are probably more people who feel that way than who don't.

I would be more than happy to buy authentic jerseys if it didn't feel like the leagues are out to get every last dollar I have. I pay for Sunday Ticket, and Center Ice every year as well as a few UFC fights, I could stream off the net but in this case I feel the price is fair for the services I get.

I don't wear the jerseys as a status symbol and if anyone asks I tell them it is bogus, most are shocked at the quality but if I came across someone on this board I am sure they would know immediately. The leagues have their economic model for jersey sales, I am sure they account for how many people will buy from overseas at each price they will charge. They know they would sell more if the price were cheaper but with their high profit margin they do not need to maximize sales.

[LoveTheFakes]

I am NEVER going to buy a crappy replica for $80 or a slightly better authentic for $300

Then you're not entitled to own a jersey. Sorry, that's life.

You do not think I should own a fake jersey but I do, and you cannot stop me from doing this.

[Michigan Dave]

I am NEVER going to buy a crappy replica for $80 or a slightly better authentic for $300

Then you're not entitled to own a jersey. Sorry, that's life.

You do not think I should own a fake jersey but I do, and you cannot stop me from doing this.

I can't, but my buddies in the DOJ can. Or at least make it more difficult for you.

[LoveTheFakes]

I am NEVER going to buy a crappy replica for $80 or a slightly better authentic for $300

Then you're not entitled to own a jersey. Sorry, that's life.

You do not think I should own a fake jersey but I do, and you cannot stop me from doing this.

I can't, but my buddies in the DOJ can. Or at least make it more difficult for you.

If they want to waste resources to stop a guy who gets a few jerseys a year, and does not make a dime off of them go ahead. If they banned the sites I use I wouldn't run to the mall and buy a genuine authentic.

You can make idle threats all day, until the Feds bust my door down, and take me away for possession of a few fakes I will laugh at you.

[loogodude90]

I am NEVER going to buy a crappy replica for $80 or a slightly better authentic for $300

Then you're not entitled to own a jersey. Sorry, that's life.

You do not think I should own a fake jersey but I do, and you cannot stop me from doing this.

I can't, but my buddies in the DOJ can. Or at least make it more difficult for you.

You've got to be kidding. Your "buddies"?

[JGCleveland]

I only have one fake, and its a Home Peyton Hillis Cleveland Browns jersey and it's one of the best fakes I've seen. I was impressed. I have yet to find a decent NBA one yet though. I mean look at some of these!

http://www.jordan-space.com/popup_image.php/pID/108305

http://www.jordan-space.com/popup_image.php/pID/108272

http://www.jordan-space.com/popup_image.php/pID/108248

[Lights Out]

I am NEVER going to buy a crappy replica for $80 or a slightly better authentic for $300

Then you're not entitled to own a jersey. Sorry, that's life.

You do not think I should own a fake jersey but I do, and you cannot stop me from doing this.

I may not be able to stop you from buying fakes, but your justifications are laughable. The only legal choices in the matter are to pay the prices that are deemed fair by the leagues and companies, or not buy a jersey at all. End of story.

[LoveTheFakes]

I am NEVER going to buy a crappy replica for $80 or a slightly better authentic for $300

Then you're not entitled to own a jersey. Sorry, that's life.

You do not think I should own a fake jersey but I do, and you cannot stop me from doing this.

I may not be able to stop you from buying fakes, but your justifications are laughable. The only legal choices in the matter are to pay the prices that are deemed fair by the leagues and companies, or not buy a jersey at all. End of story.

Ok I will remember that next time I buy one.

[JTernup]

Nobody cares that you buy fakes and we certainly can't stop you. All we are saying is that it IS illegal to make and sell fakes, the makers of the fakes are stealing an identity and passing their product of as the real thing. By supporting people who do this you are also breaking a law. Think of it this way, if someone stole your identity and started to buy a bunch of people things with your money, it is only hurting you like the fake makers are only hurting the NFL, we can all agree stealing an ID of any kind is illegal. Here's the part we are arguing about, is it illegal for me to take the things that the thief is purchasing me with your money, YES because I am getting things from him that aren't his to give, I'd be a fool not to take what he is giving me right? (this is your view on it) or I could say, you know what I'll pass, I'm going to buy stuff on my own. (our view)

So can you agree that what you are doing is wrong?

Your right, you will probably never get in trouble for buying fake jerseys, but it is still wrong and you are still breaking the law whether you get in trouble for it or not.

[LoveTheFakes]

Nobody cares that you buy fakes and we certainly can't stop you. All we are saying is that it IS illegal to make and sell fakes, the makers of the fakes are stealing an identity and passing their product of as the real thing. By supporting people who do this you are also breaking a law. Think of it this way, if someone stole your identity and started to buy a bunch of people things with your money, it is only hurting you like the fake makers are only hurting the NFL, we can all agree stealing an ID of any kind is illegal. Here's the part we are arguing about, is it illegal for me to take the things that the thief is purchasing me with your money, YES because I am getting things from him that aren't his to give, I'd be a fool not to take what he is giving me right? (this is your view on it) or I could say, you know what I'll pass, I'm going to buy stuff on my own. (our view)

So can you agree that what you are doing is wrong?

Your right, you will probably never get in trouble for buying fake jerseys, but it is still wrong and you are still breaking the law whether you get in trouble for it or not.

From everything I have found on this subject it is not illegal to buy the knock offs, if I were to sell them that would be illegal. It may be wrong to you but to me it isn't, I think the leagues overcharge, and I will continue to seek other means to acquire jerseys.

[Lights Out]

Or you could grow up and realize that you're not entitled to own sports jerseys if you don't like the price.

[TheOldRoman]

Keyword: PURCHASE! I am purchasing the jersey, hence I am not stealing. The NFL's bank account does not have money taken out because I am buying the cheaper jersey. Before you start with "well, they are not making the money.." save it. If all that existed were the licensed jerseys at $100+, $250 for authentics, then I would go without a jersey.

No, you are stealing by knowingly purchasing stolen merchandise. And counterfeit jerseys are stolen in that they steal the identity from the teams and manufacturers. It is like buying a bootleg copy of Photoshop for $20 (albeit one which doesn't have all the features and crashes your system periodically). I mean, you wouldn't spend $1,000 to buy the software legitimately, so it isn't like Adobe is losing money, right? The NFL has money taken away from it because it has the right to X amount of dollars for every person wearing an NFL jersey. If you don't want to give them that money, don't wear the jersey.

Disagree. Not stealing anything. Want to say the makers and sellers are stealing, I'll agree. I paid my money for an item. Like I said, I am not buying the knock-off instead of the licensed as I would not buy the licensed at their price if I couldn't find a good knock-off I wanted.

I made a dead-on comparison which you completely ignored. If you bought a bootleg copy of Photoshop for $20, would it be stealing? Of course, you wouldn't have paid $1,000 for a legit copy, so you could argue you weren't stealing money from Adobe as you wouldn't have given it to them to begin with. Installing pirated software on your computer is a crime and so is knowingly purchasing a counterfeit jersey.

[BlueSky]

Nobody cares that you buy fakes and we certainly can't stop you. All we are saying is that it IS illegal to make and sell fakes, the makers of the fakes are stealing an identity and passing their product of as the real thing. By supporting people who do this you are also breaking a law. Think of it this way, if someone stole your identity and started to buy a bunch of people things with your money, it is only hurting you like the fake makers are only hurting the NFL, we can all agree stealing an ID of any kind is illegal. Here's the part we are arguing about, is it illegal for me to take the things that the thief is purchasing me with your money, YES because I am getting things from him that aren't his to give, I'd be a fool not to take what he is giving me right? (this is your view on it) or I could say, you know what I'll pass, I'm going to buy stuff on my own. (our view)

So can you agree that what you are doing is wrong?

Your right, you will probably never get in trouble for buying fake jerseys, but it is still wrong and you are still breaking the law whether you get in trouble for it or not.

Keyword: PURCHASE! I am purchasing the jersey, hence I am not stealing. The NFL's bank account does not have money taken out because I am buying the cheaper jersey. Before you start with "well, they are not making the money.." save it. If all that existed were the licensed jerseys at $100+, $250 for authentics, then I would go without a jersey.

No, you are stealing by knowingly purchasing stolen merchandise. And counterfeit jerseys are stolen in that they steal the identity from the teams and manufacturers. It is like buying a bootleg copy of Photoshop for $20 (albeit one which doesn't have all the features and crashes your system periodically). I mean, you wouldn't spend $1,000 to buy the software legitimately, so it isn't like Adobe is losing money, right? The NFL has money taken away from it because it has the right to X amount of dollars for every person wearing an NFL jersey. If you don't want to give them that money, don't wear the jersey.

Disagree. Not stealing anything. Want to say the makers and sellers are stealing, I'll agree. I paid my money for an item. Like I said, I am not buying the knock-off instead of the licensed as I would not buy the licensed at their price if I couldn't find a good knock-off I wanted.

I made a dead-on comparison which you completely ignored. If you bought a bootleg copy of Photoshop for $20, would it be stealing? Of course, you wouldn't have paid $1,000 for a legit copy, so you could argue you weren't stealing money from Adobe as you wouldn't have given it to them to begin with. Installing pirated software on your computer is a crime and so is knowingly purchasing a counterfeit jersey.

No. We've pretty much established that it's not illegal to buy them. If you think it is, my challenge stands: show us one U.S. law or statute that says it. Nobody's done it yet. I suspect the lack of laws to this effect is because no proscecutor wants to take on proving "knowingly" beyond a reasonable doubt. In most cases that would range from difficult to impossible.

I'm not defending this, as I've said, I'm conflicted on the whole mess. But it's annoying to read post after post saying "YOU'RE BREAKING THE LAW!!" when that's not the case.

And why are you wasting your time with analogies? Those who see nothing wrong with it will never get it and will never agree with you.

Ever see War Games? At the end the wayward computer concludes, "Interesting game. The only way to win is not to play." Same goes here with endless arguments like this one. Don't tell me that computer is smarter than we are.

[coggs]

Keyword: PURCHASE! I am purchasing the jersey, hence I am not stealing. The NFL's bank account does not have money taken out because I am buying the cheaper jersey. Before you start with "well, they are not making the money.." save it. If all that existed were the licensed jerseys at $100+, $250 for authentics, then I would go without a jersey.

No, you are stealing by knowingly purchasing stolen merchandise. And counterfeit jerseys are stolen in that they steal the identity from the teams and manufacturers. It is like buying a bootleg copy of Photoshop for $20 (albeit one which doesn't have all the features and crashes your system periodically). I mean, you wouldn't spend $1,000 to buy the software legitimately, so it isn't like Adobe is losing money, right? The NFL has money taken away from it because it has the right to X amount of dollars for every person wearing an NFL jersey. If you don't want to give them that money, don't wear the jersey.

Disagree. Not stealing anything. Want to say the makers and sellers are stealing, I'll agree. I paid my money for an item. Like I said, I am not buying the knock-off instead of the licensed as I would not buy the licensed at their price if I couldn't find a good knock-off I wanted.

I made a dead-on comparison which you completely ignored. If you bought a bootleg copy of Photoshop for $20, would it be stealing? Of course, you wouldn't have paid $1,000 for a legit copy, so you could argue you weren't stealing money from Adobe as you wouldn't have given it to them to begin with. Installing pirated software on your computer is a crime and so is knowingly purchasing a counterfeit jersey.

I don't use pirated software, but not because of some holier-than-thou ethical idea that you guys are spewing. I do not use it because of the horror stories I have heard of it leading to problems with your computer. Stealing? No, because again you are paying for that copy. The person making the bootlegs and selling is the thief. However, at least the software makers are beginning to protect their own product my requiring people to register their pass keys online.

If it were illegal to purchase a counterfeit jersey than why would the NYC Councilwoman have to propose a law to make it illegal to buy counterfeit goods? BECAUSE IT IS NOT ILLEGAL! If it was, there would be no reason to propose the law! If it was already a law, she'd simply have to meet with the DA and Police Commissioner to discuss enforcing this law.

[coggs]

I am NEVER going to buy a crappy replica for $80 or a slightly better authentic for $300

Then you're not entitled to own a jersey. Sorry, that's life.

When you see someone wearing a knock-off, whether it be at a game or on the street, do you go up to them and preach about how they are not entitled to own that jersey? Anyone else on here do that?

[DeFrank]

Replica to Authentic... Replica to Authentic...

What about PREMIER??

It's 20 bucks more than Replica and it has a better "mesh" or whatever, non mesh stiched numbers, etc.

As a kid I only bought replicas, now that I'm a little older, I'm moving to Premiers (and I have to pay!)

[DelayedPenalty]

How about we just kill this thread now, since there isn't anything productive happening anyways.

[LuvTheNats]

[Lights Out]

I am NEVER going to buy a crappy replica for $80 or a slightly better authentic for $300

Then you're not entitled to own a jersey. Sorry, that's life.

When you see someone wearing a knock-off, whether it be at a game or on the street, do you go up to them and preach about how they are not entitled to own that jersey? Anyone else on here do that?

No, because I'm not the kind of annoying jackass who would go up to some random person on the street and preach at them. That doesn't change the fact that they're wrong for doing it.