The Big Ol' Counterfeit Jersey Thread

[charger77]

If I want to see Death Blow, I'll buy the DVD and not a choppy copy from Brody on the street.

Now you're making meaningless comparisons. You're comparing something whose bad quality directly worsens your enjoyment (a poor quality bootleg DVD) and something whose debatable bad quality doesn't negatively impact your enjoyment (a fake jersey). Based on the responses on this board, it seems like the fake jersey wearers are perfectly happy with their products, and the only people annoyed by it are the people who don't wear fakes - which is basically the exact opposite of the bootleg DVD example.

Nevertheless, I'll try to entertain your comparison.

I've bought bootleg DVD's before, and their quality sucked. So because of that, I'll probably never buy a bootleg DVD again. Many of the fake jerseys posted here seem fine. If I bought some fake jerseys and they fell apart within a month, I would acknowledge their quality sucked... but that hasn't happened to me. I don't have anything against people who buy fake jerseys. If I DO want to become some sort of self-righteous nosy busybody out to fight "crime," it's going to be against something that is a bigger deal and more serious than Chinese NFL jerseys.

So you're saying that IP theft is OK?

...Just kidding. I agree with everything you said. +1

Which is saying IP theft is ok.

[Legend]

If I want to see Death Blow, I'll buy the DVD and not a choppy copy from Brody on the street.

Now you're making meaningless comparisons. You're comparing something whose bad quality directly worsens your enjoyment (a poor quality bootleg DVD) and something whose debatable bad quality doesn't negatively impact your enjoyment (a fake jersey). Based on the responses on this board, it seems like the fake jersey wearers are perfectly happy with their products, and the only people annoyed by it are the people who don't wear fakes - which is basically the exact opposite of the bootleg DVD example.

Nevertheless, I'll try to entertain your comparison.

I've bought bootleg DVD's before, and their quality sucked. So because of that, I'll probably never buy a bootleg DVD again. Many of the fake jerseys posted here seem fine. If I bought some fake jerseys and they fell apart within a month, I would acknowledge their quality sucked... but that hasn't happened to me. I don't have anything against people who buy fake jerseys. If I DO want to become some sort of self-righteous nosy busybody out to fight "crime," it's going to be against something that is a bigger deal and more serious than Chinese NFL jerseys.

Cute. I think the FBI has a slightly different understanding of crime then you do. Putting the word victimless before the word crime doesn't negate illegality or criminal behavior, which may be what you are getting at. But this a crime, and it does indeed have victims in many senses. The American workforce, those receiving profits from a product, the owners of places that sell the items legally, and so on.

I guess the "busybodies" in Federal Law Enforcement are "self righteous" according to you.

See: Piracy warning labels on DVDs and CDs.

See: MegaUpload shutdown.

See: Fake jerseys seized in Canada in past Winter Classic games.

Also, I don't buy your quality argument. The appearance of a jersey is part of the quality, not just the material lasting over time. The crappy logos and words on the fake Ravens jersey and others is a sign of poor quality.

[loogodude90]

Cute. I think the FBI has a slightly different understanding of crime then you do.

Then the FBI must suck at their job, because they sure don't "show" their caring about Chinese NFL jerseys, considering how many people get away with it.

The FBI understands that there are bigger battles to fight than Chinese NFL jerseys, which is why they don't pay as much attention to them as you'd like.

Putting the word victimless before the word crime doesn't negate illegality or criminal behavior, which may be what you are getting at. But this a crime, and it does indeed have victims in many senses. The American workforce, those receiving profits from a product, the owners of places that sell the items legally, and so on.

I never said it was a victimless crime, which leads me to believe you didn't really read my post, and instead just want to argue for the sake of arguing.

I guess the "busybodies" in Federal Law Enforcement are "self righteous" according to you.

Yeah, I do think a lot of Federal Law Enforcement is a bunch of self-righteous busybodies. A lot of times they look to make up crimes just to justify their existence. Surely you already knew this? I would hope.

Also, I don't buy your quality argument. The appearance of a jersey is part of the quality, not just the material lasting over time. The crappy logos and words on the fake Ravens jersey and others is a sign of poor quality.

I don't think we're talking about the same jersey - that Ravens jersey looks fine, and most people on the street wouldn't give a damn. If the owner of the jersey is happy with his product, that's all that really matters - not whether YOU approve of it. Don't like it? Then don't buy it.

[Legend]

Cute. I think the FBI has a slightly different understanding of crime then you do.

Then the FBI must suck at their job, because they sure don't "show" their caring about Chinese NFL jerseys, considering how many people get away with it.

The FBI understands that there are bigger battles to fight than Chinese NFL jerseys, which is why they don't pay as much attention to them as you'd like.

Putting the word victimless before the word crime doesn't negate illegality or criminal behavior, which may be what you are getting at. But this a crime, and it does indeed have victims in many senses. The American workforce, those receiving profits from a product, the owners of places that sell the items legally, and so on.

I never said it was a victimless crime, which leads me to believe you didn't really read my post, and instead just want to argue for the sake of arguing.

I guess the "busybodies" in Federal Law Enforcement are "self righteous" according to you.

Yeah, I do think a lot of Federal Law Enforcement is a bunch of self-righteous busybodies. A lot of times they look to make up crimes just to justify their existence. Surely you already knew this? I would hope.

Also, I don't buy your quality argument. The appearance of a jersey is part of the quality, not just the material lasting over time. The crappy logos and words on the fake Ravens jersey and others is a sign of poor quality.

I don't think we're talking about the same jersey - that Ravens jersey looks fine, and most people on the street wouldn't give a damn. If the owner of the jersey is happy with his product, that's all that really matters - not whether YOU approve of it. Don't like it? Then don't buy it.

Yes, the FBI has many big battles to fight. But as my examples stated, the confiscating of Winter Classic jerseys in Canada, not FBI but Canadian Feds, show they are concerned. Just like local law enforcement, there will always be bigger fish to fry. But people still get traffic tickets which are not high on the crime scale. Also as I stated with MegaUpload being shut down, from what I've read many of these sites get shut down. Therefore, the FBI does care about mass counterfit rings. I've seen raids right in front of me in NYC for people selling purses. They might not care or be able to get each person, but when it comes to mass quanities, you are incorrect, they do care.

You're reading comprehension could also use some work it seems. I clearly said, "which may be what you are getting at." I realize you never stated it, but it seemed the way your argument was leaning. I applaud your attempt.

I don't think Federal Law Enforcement are a bunch of busy bodies or self righteous. I think they do a much needed job for our country and I appreciate what they do. Sure there are bad seeds in every job every place, and complaints about jobs. But on the whole, I don't find them to be creating crimes for the sake of it. Then again, I'm not a criminal so I have no fears them. I respect them and I'm glad they exist.

And we are. That jersey of the criminal looks like crap, fitting I suppose given the team and player. But like others have said, on a site like this, most of us are going to notice it. I admitted before most fans at games wouldn't think twice, but people here are those who have an appreciation for jerseys, logos, and are detail oriented types in these kind of situations. I'm not his mother or father, I don't need to approve. I'm stating two facts: it's illegal and it looks terrible. I'm sure plenty of people are happy with narcotics they purchase. Is that all that matters, that the consumer is pleased, not the legality of the product? As for the quality part to go along with the jersey analogy, I have no idea. But it's back to the DVD point already brought up.

I think I may find some of these sites selling fake jerseys and forward them to FBI or DHS in my spare time.

[loogodude90]

But people still get traffic tickets which are not high on the crime scale.

And often, that is a manufactured "crime."

Oh, and I could easily say that Chinese NFL jerseys are not "high on the crime scale."

They might not care or be able to get each person, but when it comes to mass quanities, you are incorrect, they do care.

And a big reason they care is because they need to "do stuff" to justify their existence. Oh, and to get money.

I realize you never stated it, but it seemed the way your argument was leaning.

Yeah, you misunderstood then. I only really say what I mean. I'm not a "hidden messages within my message" kind of guy.

I don't think Federal Law Enforcement are a bunch of busy bodies or self righteous.

If you ever get in trouble for a manufactured crime, you'll see where I'm coming from. If you never have, then you might not see where I am coming from.

Oh, and I don't believe that you aren't a criminal. That's bull . If you have ever driven over the speed limit, then you are a criminal. Or do you selectively break whichever laws you want, and then complain when other people break laws that you "feel" matter?

I'm stating two facts: it's illegal and it looks terrible.

LOL, so you saying that a nice jersey looks terrible makes it a fact? I guess that fits in well with your "logic."

[charger77]

I don't think Federal Law Enforcement are a bunch of busy bodies or self righteous.

If you ever get in trouble for a manufactured crime, you'll see where I'm coming from. If you never have, then you might not see where I am coming from.

Oh, and I don't believe that you aren't a criminal. That's bull . If you have ever driven over the speed limit, then you are a criminal. Or do you selectively break whichever laws you want, and then complain when other people break laws that you "feel" matter?

All laws are "manufactured" genius.

Also I love your argument of justifying IP theft by assuming the person you are arguing with must have broken some law (namely speeding) therefore IP theft is ok. Your main talking point in this entire argument is based on an assumption. (That we must be breaking some law somewhere and because of that IP theft is A OK)

Hell, IP protection is discussed in the Constitution (yeah that thing), kind of a slight hint to you (and others) that it may be kind of important and something that Americans value.

[Morgan33]

I don't think Federal Law Enforcement are a bunch of busy bodies or self righteous.

If you ever get in trouble for a manufactured crime, you'll see where I'm coming from. If you never have, then you might not see where I am coming from.

Oh, and I don't believe that you aren't a criminal. That's bull . If you have ever driven over the speed limit, then you are a criminal. Or do you selectively break whichever laws you want, and then complain when other people break laws that you "feel" matter?

Finally you posted something I agree with. Law enforcement is a bureaucracy and the amount of unnecessary ones will make your head spin. Though I'm not justifying counterfeit jerseys.

[guest23]

I don't think Federal Law Enforcement are a bunch of busy bodies or self righteous.

If you ever get in trouble for a manufactured crime, you'll see where I'm coming from. If you never have, then you might not see where I am coming from.

Oh, and I don't believe that you aren't a criminal. That's bull . If you have ever driven over the speed limit, then you are a criminal. Or do you selectively break whichever laws you want, and then complain when other people break laws that you "feel" matter?

Finally you posted something I agree with. Law enforcement is a bureaucracy and the amount of unnecessary ones will make your head spin. Though I'm not justifying counterfeit jerseys.

care to provide some examples of unnecessary laws?

[IceCap]

I guess the "busybodies" in Federal Law Enforcement are "self righteous" according to you.

Yeah, I do think a lot of Federal Law Enforcement is a bunch of self-righteous busybodies. A lot of times they look to make up crimes just to justify their existence. Surely you already knew this? I would hope.

Sounds like someone who found himself on the wrong end of the legal system.

[sportstar1212]

I love how this topic about Chinese knock off jerseys turns into a debate about IP theft and federal law enforcement

[Brass]

I love how this topic about Chinese knock off jerseys turns into a debate about IP theft and federal law enforcement

Yup. Doesn't make any sense at all.

[Brian E]

i'm a masochist for reading this thread every few days.

seriously, why are we in this cycle:

someone justifiably calls into the question of purchasing counterfeit products, then another person defends said action with a various set of justifications and calls previous person who points out that they're supporting illegal activity a "blowhard" or a picky logo geek.

this is pretty black and white. if you buy licensed products, you're fine.

if you buy counterfeit products, you're supporting an illegal activity.

the argument "well, reebok doesn't make affordable replica jerseys to my liking" holds no weight. if you can't afford an authentic, buy a premiere. if you can't afford a premiere, buy a replica. if you can't afford a replica, save up some damn money. enough with this entitled garbage.

and let me just say, a good number of people who say that they buy counterfeit jerseys because of an affordable price point immediately negate their argument by saying they have purchased two or three jerseys at a $40 or $50 value a piece. those three illegal pieces of trash you have could buy you a premiere jersey OR get you within $60-80 of an authentic in almost every sport.

in the meantime, if you do buy knock offs, just ADMIT that you know you're doing something wrong. you should stop, but if you won't, stop justifying it.

[Fox]

One thing that nobody has seemed to acknowledge in this thread is that most people who buy counterfeit jerseys do not realize that what they're buying is fake.

[Brian E]

One thing that nobody has seemed to acknowledge in this thread is that most people who buy counterfeit jerseys do not realize that what they're buying is fake.

because i think an integral element to people who unknowingly buy them are that they do so when looking for "a deal" on an authentic jersey. that's the people trolling ebay for an "authentic" for $40 or falling victim to the sports bar owner who can "get ya a good deal."

there's an easy was to know what you're buying is legit: get it from a licensed retailer. there are enough ways to do that (modells, dicks, sports authority, respective team stores, etc.) without snapping up a counterfeit jersey by accident. if you're a savvy buyer, you can wait it out and get the latest jerseys on sale when mo's or someone else has a big sale.

and if in doubt, ask! all my friends know me as the guy who has a lot of jerseys. when they tell me they're looking to get a specific jersey, as they often do, i always ask them to consult me first so they get something legit and of good quality for a reasonable price.

[charger77]

One thing that nobody has seemed to acknowledge in this thread is that most people who buy counterfeit jerseys do not realize that what they're buying is fake.

Not only do they know they are buying a fake, they brag and flaunt it.

[IceCap]

One thing that nobody has seemed to acknowledge in this thread is that most people who buy counterfeit jerseys do not realize that what they're buying is fake.

I don't have a problem with those people.

Neither do I have a problem with people who buy counterfeits. I mean it's your money, you're an adult, do what you want. My problem is when people try justifying the purchase of counterfeits with bulls*it "relative morality" philosophy and rants against law enforcement. If you buy counterfeits just be honest about it. Just say "yeah I know they're illegally produced, but I like my jerseys cheap. It's my money don't pester me." That would be fine.

It's when you start trying to justify it as a morally superior activity that I take issue.

[guest23]

One thing that nobody has seemed to acknowledge in this thread is that most people who buy counterfeit jerseys do not realize that what they're buying is fake.

because i think an integral element to people who unknowingly buy them are that they do so when looking for "a deal" on an authentic jersey. that's the people trolling ebay for an "authentic" for $40 or falling victim to the sports bar owner who can "get ya a good deal."

there's an easy was to know what you're buying is legit: get it from a licensed retailer. there are enough ways to do that (modells, dicks, sports authority, respective team stores, etc.) without snapping up a counterfeit jersey by accident. if you're a savvy buyer, you can wait it out and get the latest jerseys on sale when mo's or someone else has a big sale.

and if in doubt, ask! all my friends know me as the guy who has a lot of jerseys. when they tell me they're looking to get a specific jersey, as they often do, i always ask them to consult me first so they get something legit and of good quality for a reasonable price.

you mean the guys walking through stadium parking lots selling jerseys out of trash bags aren't selling licensed merch? and I'm sure swap meet vendors are all legit as well right?

[Patchey13]

One thing that nobody has seemed to acknowledge in this thread is that most people who buy counterfeit jerseys do not realize that what they're buying is fake.

Not only do they know they are buying a fake, they brag and flaunt it.

I can attest to this.

[Brass]

One thing that nobody has seemed to acknowledge in this thread is that most people who buy counterfeit jerseys do not realize that what they're buying is fake.

A lot of sites steal images from NHL.com, NFL.com and the like to advertise their product. The average consumer sees a good price, a somewhat legitimate-looking picture and they think they've stumbled upon a great deal.

[PurpleRush]

A guy at bowling comes over to tell me he's getting a couple dozen authentic Pats jerseys, everything stitched "like the real ones."

And because he's getting so many, he's getting them for the "awesome low price of $24.99 each!!!"

He went to the pro shop to compare and they are "around $220. I started laughing because of the deal I was getting!"

He then tells me he'll sell me one for $40 cus he knows me.

I told him he was getting fakes.

He does not believe me.

I'll see Wednesday night. This ought to be good.