McCall Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 They don't "work". It's an extracurricular activity that they already get nearly $100,000 in free education for, not to mention the best job exposure known to man. Ask the thousand of other students working 2-3 jobs to pay for school and living if they think these athletes are being treated unfairly.Agreed. If they're going to become paid workers, they'll have to give up the goodies and pay their way like most every other student (not to mention start paying income tax).What if they didn't pay tuition and just worked for the university in a fundraising/student-activities capacity?So you're saying get paid like employees and still not pay tuition to go to school there? https://dribbble.com/MakaioCall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Admiral Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 No, I'm saying don't go to school there. ♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Hmm. I honestly don't know. I'll have to think about that one.EDIT: okay, I thought about it. No. Scratch that: no. Considering that most people who play will not make a career at it, as noted above, that would be even more deeply exploitative than anyone could plausibly claim the system is now. These kids would risk their very health and lives for a couple years' wages and no prospects of a future when their very limited time in uniform is up. At least under the current system they receive an eduction which prepares them for and gives them tools towards a career and life when they leave school. What you're proposing would strip even that for them, replacing it with a couple short-term paychecks. The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 It is when you count all the scholarships for all the student-athletes who receive them. Plus how are you going to determine which athletes and which sports get counted as employees? Plus if they're considered employees they should have to pay back that scholarship since they're not students anymore. Then they're technically ineligible to play since they're no longer students.They have it better than any other student at these schools and yet they still act like the oppressed ones.So we call it a tuition/fee waiver instead of scholarships. You know, like what G.A.s get.And no they don't have it as good as you think because if they suffer a career-ending injury, the school is not required to honor the scholarship. That alone is why reform needs to happen. On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 A few years back this guy I know who is basically a scam artist with some new con every month and hasn't ever finished a project in his life gave me a copy of his movie script. The basic premise is that the two teams who reach the NCAA Basketball championship game refuse to play until they're paid and the national championship game ends up being decided by a non-sanctioned outdoor streetball game.The movie and the plot of the movie will never happen in real life, but I thought the idea was interesting.There are rumors that at least one team in the NCAA tourney threatened a walkout in the past if they made the final game. On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 I would have no problem with requiring schools to honor the scholarships. There's precious little inequity in the relationship; this one is easy to fix. The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 It is when you count all the scholarships for all the student-athletes who receive them. Plus how are you going to determine which athletes and which sports get counted as employees? Plus if they're considered employees they should have to pay back that scholarship since they're not students anymore. Then they're technically ineligible to play since they're no longer students.They have it better than any other student at these schools and yet they still act like the oppressed ones.They don't "work". It's an extracurricular activity that they already get nearly $100,000 in free education for, not to mention the best job exposure known to man. Ask the thousand of other students working 2-3 jobs to pay for school and living if they think these athletes are being treated unfairly.They don't "work". It's an extracurricular activity that they already get nearly $100,000 in free education for, not to mention the best job exposure known to man. Ask the thousand of other students working 2-3 jobs to pay for school and living if they think these athletes are being treated unfairly.Agreed. If they're going to become paid workers, they'll have to give up the goodies and pay their way like most every other student (not to mention start paying income tax). Great points here. Job exposure being a key one; how many graphic designers, teachers, pharmacists, engineers, etc. get to show their stuff to the highest paying employers in their fields on a weekly basis as part of their job?*cough* internships *cough*Yeah I know the internship system sucks, but there's your example. On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Internships. Now we're talking exploitation. The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfwabel Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 I would have no problem with requiring schools to honor the scholarships. There's precious little inequity in the relationship; this one is easy to fix.When UNC places the revenue-generating athletes in fake classes, then admits the lack of oversight (then turns on the whistleblower), the thought that this is an academic relationship is lost. It becomes a Commercial relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hettinger_rl Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 It is when you count all the scholarships for all the student-athletes who receive them. Plus how are you going to determine which athletes and which sports get counted as employees? Plus if they're considered employees they should have to pay back that scholarship since they're not students anymore. Then they're technically ineligible to play since they're no longer students.They have it better than any other student at these schools and yet they still act like the oppressed ones.They don't "work". It's an extracurricular activity that they already get nearly $100,000 in free education for, not to mention the best job exposure known to man. Ask the thousand of other students working 2-3 jobs to pay for school and living if they think these athletes are being treated unfairly.They don't "work". It's an extracurricular activity that they already get nearly $100,000 in free education for, not to mention the best job exposure known to man. Ask the thousand of other students working 2-3 jobs to pay for school and living if they think these athletes are being treated unfairly.Agreed. If they're going to become paid workers, they'll have to give up the goodies and pay their way like most every other student (not to mention start paying income tax). Great points here. Job exposure being a key one; how many graphic designers, teachers, pharmacists, engineers, etc. get to show their stuff to the highest paying employers in their fields on a weekly basis as part of their job?*cough* internships *cough*Yeah I know the internship system sucks, but there's your example.Most internships aren't paid either.Athletes wouldn't be interning with the team they would be drafted by.College athletes at the elite schools show their skills to every potential employer in that sport; not one that they have to apply to, like in an internship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 It is when you count all the scholarships for all the student-athletes who receive them. Plus how are you going to determine which athletes and which sports get counted as employees? Plus if they're considered employees they should have to pay back that scholarship since they're not students anymore. Then they're technically ineligible to play since they're no longer students.They have it better than any other student at these schools and yet they still act like the oppressed ones.They don't "work". It's an extracurricular activity that they already get nearly $100,000 in free education for, not to mention the best job exposure known to man. Ask the thousand of other students working 2-3 jobs to pay for school and living if they think these athletes are being treated unfairly.They don't "work". It's an extracurricular activity that they already get nearly $100,000 in free education for, not to mention the best job exposure known to man. Ask the thousand of other students working 2-3 jobs to pay for school and living if they think these athletes are being treated unfairly.Agreed. If they're going to become paid workers, they'll have to give up the goodies and pay their way like most every other student (not to mention start paying income tax). Great points here. Job exposure being a key one; how many graphic designers, teachers, pharmacists, engineers, etc. get to show their stuff to the highest paying employers in their fields on a weekly basis as part of their job?*cough* internships *cough*Yeah I know the internship system sucks, but there's your example.Most internships aren't paid either.Athletes wouldn't be interning with the team they would be drafted by.College athletes at the elite schools show their skills to every potential employer in that sport; not one that they have to apply to, like in an internship.Few interns end up working full time at their internship location as well.Any program worth its snuff in those other fields should give you something tangible to point to in any job application you fill out. Graphic design? "Hey, look at my portfolio, including this logo that was adopted by this company." Teachers? "Here's the record of my student teaching experience, along with the observations of the classroom's main teacher. Here are some course plans I developed as well." Pharmacists? "Look at my experience working to fill these prescriptions." Engineers? "Look at my design portfolio of what I worked on." In the internet age it's not exactly hard to show potential employers examples of your work. On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Admiral Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 True, but if they fail at pro sports they have gotten a college degree from a top notch school.Increasingly meaningless in a country where you need a bachelor's just to work at any job that doesn't pay by the hour, and rumor has it some of these schools don't have high graduation rates for their football teams. ♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbadefense1990 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Increasingly meaningless in a country where you need a bachelor's Master's Degree just to work at any job that doesn't pay by the hour...Fixed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcgd Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Total fabrication. Almost zero non-specialty jobs (like medicine or engineering, you know, jobs that have ALWAYS required more than bachelor's) require a masters.And yes I know your exaggerating but I don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnWis97 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I would have no problem with requiring schools to honor the scholarships. There's precious little inequity in the relationship; this one is easy to fix.Not only would I have no problem with it, but I think it should absolutely be the case. I remember when I heard about an injured player losing his ride; I was stunned. A player playing for a school should get his scholarship fulfilled and it should be easy enough to even have it not "count" against a school's limit.And there are other issues, such as over-signing, that should be easy enough to rectify. And yeah, I'd like to see a bit less done to maximize every nickel of profit. But these are not oppressed individuals. Most people would give anything for a four-year ride. I don't care if the graduation rate is 1%. The scholarship grants the opportunity and the fact that many players don't fully take advantage of it is their own problem. And even those that don't care about education get to live the good life for 3.5 years before going out into the world with a high school degree...and maybe even have a bowl ring to sell.Does Title IX get in the way of only paying revenue sport athletes?What about high school games? For example, I watched a LaBron James high school game on ESPN2 once. Should those players have been played? How much? Should LeBron, the obvious attraction, have received more money than the other players? Money was made so I can only assume the players, particularly LeBron, were exploited, right?Anyway, here's what I would do:A stipend for some amount of money (a few thousand) in recognition that jobs are not allowed.A five-year scholarship for four years of play. The 5th year would not "count" against a program (and someone not taking the 5th year would not "help" a program, so as to eliminate incentive to get people out in four). This is recognition that it's difficult to graduate while also having, essentially, a 1/2 to 3/4 time job. It also gives people a change to "catch up" as hopefully some start to feel reality of the future by say their junior year. And it recognizes that many athletes are out of state and eliminates the need to pay out-of-state tuition for that last one to two semesters. Hell, I may even go so far as to advocate a full ride for 5 years and tuition for life.Honor all scholarships for the full four (or hopefully 5) years...if a player is injured, don't "count" it against the team.Outlaw over-committing Disclaimer: If this comment is about an NBA uniform from 2017-2018 or later, do not constitute a lack of acknowledgement of the corporate logo to mean anything other than "the corporate logo is terrible and makes the uniform significantly worse." BADGERS TWINS VIKINGS TIMBERWOLVES WILD POTD (Shared) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hettinger_rl Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 To me the players that gripe about needing to get paid for playing in college do so because they want to live the life of a professional athlete before they are professionals. They want the cars, clothes, and hype. All things that would sour the college game IMO. These are the players that complain about not having money for stuff at the end of the week because they live out of whatever means they have. Every other student at a college is in situational poverty because all their money goes to school. Scholarship athletes don't worry about paying for school or food (campus meal plans) or clothes (team provided), so where does their money go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Admiral Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I don't know, but millions of dollars go to the colleges. ♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnWis97 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 To me the players that gripe about needing to get paid for playing in college do so because they want to live the life of a professional athlete before they are professionals. They want the cars, clothes, and hype. All things that would sour the college game IMO. These are the players that complain about not having money for stuff at the end of the week because they live out of whatever means they have. Every other student at a college is in situational poverty because all their money goes to school. Scholarship athletes don't worry about paying for school or food (campus meal plans) or clothes (team provided), so where does their money go?I think there is definitely an element of this. We have sort of decided that anyone who is very good (good enough for D-1 College, I guess) deserves to be rich. Disclaimer: If this comment is about an NBA uniform from 2017-2018 or later, do not constitute a lack of acknowledgement of the corporate logo to mean anything other than "the corporate logo is terrible and makes the uniform significantly worse." BADGERS TWINS VIKINGS TIMBERWOLVES WILD POTD (Shared) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still MIGHTY Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Maybe it's a bit of that, but it's also the large portion of what admiral said.College football brings in millions upon millions of dollars to these schools, and the players want some of all that money that they earn for the school. | ANA | LAA | LAR | LAL | ASU | CSULB | USMNT | USWNT | LAFC | OCSC | MAN UTD | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnWis97 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 They will never get it because of title IX if nothing else. Best case for future players is that revenue sports are forced to die and the NFL establishes a minor league. The best players will play in it and get paid. The rest will be done with football after high school. Disclaimer: If this comment is about an NBA uniform from 2017-2018 or later, do not constitute a lack of acknowledgement of the corporate logo to mean anything other than "the corporate logo is terrible and makes the uniform significantly worse." BADGERS TWINS VIKINGS TIMBERWOLVES WILD POTD (Shared) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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