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Most Tortured/Suffering Sports Cities (REDUX UPDATE)


dbadefense1990

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Sporting Kansas City just won the MLS Cup. Don't tell me that doesn't count.

It doesn't count. MLS is not at the same level as the NFL or MLB. Not even close. It's like saying Cleveland shouldn't be on the list because the Lake Erie Monsters won the AHL title. (Yeah, I know they really didn't. I'm just using the Monsters as an example. Actually...I don't know if they did or not but you get the idea.)

 

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Sporting Kansas City just won the MLS Cup. Don't tell me that doesn't count.

It doesn't count. MLS is not at the same level as the NFL or MLB. Not even close.

You can still count it, but not with the figure on any Big 4 team.

I'd like to think of it as a tiebreaker, the MLS isn't a major league that is covered nearly as much as any Big 4 league, but it still is big enough to have their playoffs/big regular season games broadcasted on ESPN. It may be that instead of SportsCenter reruns to fill air time, but it's still something, and the league is growing with a head of steam that none of the Big 4 leagues currently have because they've already snapped up all of the American markets, and are too dim-witted to realize they can't market Europe. You could give an exception to the MLB, except for the fact that Baseball in general is dying.

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It counts to whatever degree the general sports fan base in a given town thinks it counts...for example, the WNBA titles in Minnesota do not count; at least not enough to get Minnesota off of the list. The overwhelming response to those championships was indifference. I cannot speak for MLS anywhere but I tend to doubt it gets near the other sports for mattering (though maybe in some towns it is as important as the NHL).

Disclaimer: If this comment is about an NBA uniform from 2017-2018 or later, do not constitute a lack of acknowledgement of the corporate logo to mean anything other than "the corporate logo is terrible and makes the uniform significantly worse."

 

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I think Cincinnati needs to be higher. I’d put us fourth behind Cleveland, Buffalo, and Kansas City. We had the Big Red Machine, but the people who remember that team dwindles by the day. We won it all in 1990, but since then pretty much nothing has gone right. Here’s our resume (not even counting Super Bowl Losses):

  • We haven't won a playoff matchup since 1995
  • The Bengals haven’t won a single playoff game since 1990
  • The Reds haven’t won a playoff series since 1995. Got swept hard by the Braves in the NLCS.
  • The Reds and Bengals Have lost a collective 10 consecutive playoff matchups (that’s hard to do)
  • In the 47 seasons since the 1990 World Series the Reds and Bengals have only qualified for the postseason 10 times combined
  • First play of the first playoff game in 15 years. Carson Palmer’s knee gets shredded by the worst team in sports. Team never stood a chance after that.
  • Reds won 96 games in 1999, lost one game playoff. Most wins by any team in the wild card era to miss the playoffs
  • Bengals missed the playoffs for 15 straight years
  • Reds went ten years without a winning season.
  • 2012. After not suffering an injury to the five man rotation all season the best pitcher injures himself on his third or fourth pitch of game 1 of the LDS. Reds manage to win the first two games on the road. Blow the series by losing three straight all at home
  • Not on my own personal list, but Kenyon Martin broke his leg in the CUSA tournament and kept a very good UC team from doing anything in the tournament.
  • Mike Brown owns our football team.

Also, don't forget 2009, when the Bearcat football team was one game away from the BCS National Title Game, but Texas beat Nebraska in the Big 12 Title game.

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It counts to whatever degree the general sports fan base in a given town thinks it counts...for example, the WNBA titles in Minnesota do not count; at least not enough to get Minnesota off of the list. The overwhelming response to those championships was indifference. I cannot speak for MLS anywhere but I tend to doubt it gets near the other sports for mattering (though maybe in some towns it is as important as the NHL).

When Columbus won the MLS Cup the only coverage or excitement I can remember was a few hundred people went to the airport to greet the team. The city was happy for the team, but I don't think anybody would've been crushed emotionally had they lost in the championship game.

I personally don't count it when I'm looking at a city's sports history. Sorry, soccer fans. It'll get there.

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Allow me to make a case for Milwaukee.

Yes, the Packers are officially Milwaukee's team, and are far and away the most followed team in Milwaukee... especially with all the transients from up nort' who live here now. But they play in, and are named for, Green Bay. And there's something to be said for the fact that they didn't start winning Super Bowls again until after they stopped playing here.

The last time a Milwaukee team won a major championship it didn't have to share with another city was Marquette's Men's Basketball Championship in 1977, and the last time a Milwaukee team won a professional championship was the Bucks' NBA title in 1971. Both happened before my lifetime, and I'm already north of 30.

Add to it the Brewers general ineptitude since 1982 (even the beloved Harvey's Wallbangers couldn't win it all) that's seen them win a grand total of ONE playoff series since last making the World Series. And the Bucks haven't been the slightest bit relevant since the Ray Allen trade that pissed off most of the fans, and now they want to milk the taxpayers for a new arena.

We may not be Cleveland, and we might be doing better than most Rust Belt cities on the civic front, but how much of that urban renewal was spurned by the fact that our teams have sucked for so long that we needed to find other things to do? LBVS*

*Laughing but very serious

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It counts to whatever degree the general sports fan base in a given town thinks it counts...for example, the WNBA titles in Minnesota do not count; at least not enough to get Minnesota off of the list. The overwhelming response to those championships was indifference. I cannot speak for MLS anywhere but I tend to doubt it gets near the other sports for mattering (though maybe in some towns it is as important as the NHL).

That's a good point. Here in Portland, the Timbers frequently get top billing in the sports pages, so its level of importance definitely varies market by market. I could see why an MLS Cup might be discounted in this debate when it relates to a city that has most of the other big-four leagues.

But was it really not worthy of celebrating in Kansas City?

(Also, as a side note, anybody comparing the MLS' importance to the U.S. sports world to that of the WNBA and Arena Football just isn't paying attention.)

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It counts to whatever degree the general sports fan base in a given town thinks it counts...for example, the WNBA titles in Minnesota do not count; at least not enough to get Minnesota off of the list. The overwhelming response to those championships was indifference. I cannot speak for MLS anywhere but I tend to doubt it gets near the other sports for mattering (though maybe in some towns it is as important as the NHL).

That's a good point. Here in Portland, the Timbers frequently get top billing in the sports pages, so its level of importance definitely varies market by market. I could see why an MLS Cup might be discounted in this debate when it relates to a city that has most of the other big-four leagues.

But was it really not worthy of celebrating in Kansas City?

(Also, as a side note, anybody comparing the MLS' importance to the U.S. sports world to that of the WNBA and Arena Football just isn't paying attention.)

If you're going to compare the MLS to anything non-Big 4 I think the CFL would have to be the most accurate?

Milwaukee is kinda weird because they kinda have the Packers-but-they-really-don't, but aren't the outspoken, by far, majority of the citizens of Milwaukee are Packer fans? Correct. I think it's enough to where you can include the Packers into Milwaukee/Wisconsin Sports in General, but if we're going to seriously debate this, we need some ground rules:

1. What counts and what doesn't? Does a major college championship count? Say Football or Basketball, they surely have followings that are comparable to Big 4 sports. Also, does MLS count? In the face of Canada, does the CFL count? Are you going to let premature sports that nobody cares about like the WNBA and/or NLL/MLL count?

2. Market size. Let's say for a second, we're comparing San Diego and Minneapolis, and we're going to use Big Four sports only. San Diego has really only had 2 Big Four teams with one championship that supposedly doesn't count because the NFL, but Minnesota has 4 crappy franchises, and 2 titles in 1987 and 1991, but Minnesota has more teams, but they've won a championship that's more recent to San Diego's title that supposedly doesn't count. 4 teams to 2? How do you compare?

3. What's your definition of "torture" and "suffering" see BringBackTheVet's post.

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Would Tampa qualify as anything resembling a suffering city? No?

Well, my work here is done then.

Though, really, in many different markets, the credentials (or lack-thereof) could possibly lead to some qualification (two major championships since the Bucs started play in 1976, all three teams having significantly more bad seasons than good seasons, etc.), but this is such a dismal and transient market that there simply isn't enough to put this city in the same stratosphere as some of the other cities already mentioned.

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I think there is a definite case for Sacramento. Especially considering that the Kings have been downright awful for several years and no playoff appearances since 2006, awful maliciously inept ownership until they were mercifully sold last year. Even then they experienced coming about as close to losing the Kings as a city can get without actually losing the team.

Sure there was a time when the Kings were good, very good in fact and just couldn't get over the hump whether by their own devices or with the help of the officiating (2002 WCF game 6 versus the Lakers). If that's not torture I don't know what is.

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Mets, Jets, Islanders, Knick/Nets fan

Many if not most NY fans are fans of all of these teams, especially Mets, Jets, Isles

I'd consider putting the Rangers in there too. Even though they make the playoffs with frequency and spend a lot on players, they only have 1 Stanley Cup in the past 74 years, and they have failed to reach expectations countless times. The past twenty years for the Islanders have still probably been more torturous, though.

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Mets, Jets, Islanders, Knick/Nets fan

Many if not most NY fans are fans of all of these teams, especially Mets, Jets, Isles

I'd consider putting the Rangers in there too. Even though they make the playoffs with frequency and spend a lot on players, they only have 1 Stanley Cup in the past 74 years, and they have failed to reach expectations countless times. The past twenty years for the Islanders have still probably been more torturous, though.

Yeah for someone born in 1990 like myself, the "JIM" (Jets/Islanders/Met) fan has gone through quite a bit of pain. Obviously this doesn't put New York in the misery index, but the success of the other teams do for the JIM.

Since I've been born:

-The Giants have won 3 Super Bowls, made it to a 4th (the Patriots success also hasn't made this easier)

-The Yankees have won 5 World Series, made it to 2 others (oh, and the Phillies and Braves won one to pour it on)

-The Rangers won the Stanley Cup in 1994

-The Devils aren't really the Islanders' rival as much as "divisional foe that form an Anti-Rangers alliance), but still, 3 Stanley Cups as well as 2 other Final appearances

whereas

-The Jets.. actually I can't complain too much about a fairly consistent playoff track record and 3 conference title game appearances, but compared to the Giants and Patriots, plus given the mismanagement of the team..

-The Islanders have not won a playoff series since 1993. Nobody my age can remember the 1993 playoff run. We can go on and on for days about mismanagement and last place finishes.

-The Mets have an NL pennant, but aside from that and 1999 and 2006, there's not much to write home about, plus, you got it, mismanagement first by spending too much and now pretending to be a small market team in the biggest city of all (though to be fair the situation is improving now)

Tack on that either way you go with NBA fandom you either have the Knicks and Nets, which is all that needs to be said, and the smaller segment of the NYC fanbases can easily make up a top 10 list. Of course, all the rival teams keep the area off it for quite some time.

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If soccer titles count, then WNBA, Arena Football and Lacrosse titles have to count. Thus the Twin Cities is helped by the Lynx' two WNBA championships.

No, I'd say MLS is well above any of those. If you want to talk second-division soccer or lower, perhaps the case could be made.

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I think there is a definite case for Sacramento. Especially considering that the Kings have been downright awful for several years and no playoff appearances since 2006, awful maliciously inept ownership until they were mercifully sold last year. Even then they experienced coming about as close to losing the Kings as a city can get without actually losing the team.

Sure there was a time when the Kings were good, very good in fact and just couldn't get over the hump whether by their own devices or with the help of the officiating (2002 WCF game 6 versus the Lakers). If that's not torture I don't know what is.

It's hard for me, as someone who grew up in the Sacramento area, to buy that. I totally understand what you're saying, and I do agree that Kings fans are pretty tortured (I lost my love for the whole sport of basketball after that 02 WCF nonsense), but the area is pretty firmly represented by the Bay Area. It's less than 100 miles to San Francisco, and even less than that to Oakland. Add in the Rivercats ties to the A's, and I'd say Sacramento residents are pretty well off. It's not really big enough of a sports town to be considered on the list.

Sacramento is probably my favorite city in the world, and I'm confident that some day it'll have multiple professional sports teams (if the problems with the A's and Raiders drag out any longer, and they simply can't find a suitable Bay Area replacement, one of them is bound to end up there eventually IMO), but right now it's just too much of an outlier to really be considered in the same breath as other cities mentioned.

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On 11/19/2012 at 7:23 PM, oldschoolvikings said:
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So after reading over the comments, I think I have to be clear on some entries:

-People have been questioning the Dallas entry onto my list. Here's my rationale: I highly took into consideration a city's sports moments within the last 10 years. ESPN's list was constructed around March-April 2004, and thus, my list heavily weighs moments occurring post-April 2004. Let's compare Dallas to Chicago, since both cities had a dominant sports team in the 1990s. Since April 2004, Chicago has 3 pro championships to Dallas 1. In terms of cataclysmic events, Dallas has had more of those unfortunate moments within the last 10 years than Chicago has. Also, I also considered the media attention given to moments, if it's slanted to a team being either clutch or choke. The Mavericks did win the NBA title a couple of years ago, but most people remember that series as a title the Miami Heat lost, instead of a series the Mavericks won, whereas people talked non-stop about the Rangers losing the World Series instead of the Cardinals winning the World Series (the comparisons to the 1986 Red Sox). As for the Cowboys and the whole "they get Dallas off the hook," they've endured three straight Week 17 losses to NFC East teams in winner-take-all matchups. It'd be the equivalent of the Bears losing divisional championship games to the Packers, Lions and Vikings in consecutive years (well, one of those happened).

-I've placed Milwaukee and Green Bay in the same media market. Yes, there are people who will question why I do this, but lest we forget the historical connections the Packers have to Milwaukee. Besides, even if the NFL is cut-off from Milwaukee's considerations, that city hasn't endured the soul-sucking moments other sports cities have in the list. Sorry.

-When I say "general suck," I mean losing as in regular season average-game losing, resulting in forgettable seasons without a point of inflection to think of the season. I gave more weight into losing in games that matter (playoffs, regular season games of importance) and losing in roller coaster-types of games.

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Cleveland's the undisputed champion of suffering/futility, but Buffalo's got a good case for the number two spot. They have two teams among the Big Four, the Bills and Sabres. The Bills went to four straight Super Bowls and lost all of them (including a heart breaker) and the Sabres have made it one Stanley Cup Finals, which they lost under kind of dubious circumstances. Both teams are now firmly in a rut of suckitude.

EDIT- They also had an NBA team that went on to become the Clippers. That's just embarrassing :P

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Cleveland's the undisputed champion of suffering/futility, but Buffalo's got a good case for the number two spot. They have two teams among the Big Four, the Bills and Sabres. The Bills went to four straight Super Bowls and lost all of them (including a heart breaker) and the Sabres have made it one Stanley Cup Finals, which they lost under kind of dubious circumstances. Both teams are now firmly in a rut of suckitude.

EDIT- They also had an NBA team that went on to become the Clippers. That's just embarrassing :P

But the Braves also had a decent contribution to the world, without them we wouldn't have ever seen these:

nba_braves_195.jpg

FWIW, that's my second favorite basketball jersey of all-time, the 1978 Bullets away has to take the cake for me. :P

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