A11 Football League

[kwmoore]

The last time I had any interest in a UTampa athletic program was in the late 80's and then it was baseball.

[BrandMooreArt]

no one can know if this league will go for more than a few years, but i think they're doing a lot of things right and have as good of a chance as any minor football league ever has. the A11 offense is pretty exciting. its something i would definitely watch often if i had a team or player i liked. (based on the branding alone, i'm about to be a Wranglers fan). it's not being run by a bunch of suits either, these are real football coaches/people at the front of it. i wish them the very best

[leopard88]

If the Philadelphia Stars came back and played their games at Franklin Field, sign me up for at least one game. I vaguely remember the original Starsfrom when I was a kid and they played at now demolished JFK stadium.

Are you sure about that last part? Wiki says they only ever played at The Vet and Franklin Field.

Huh. Guess I was wrong. Like I said, I was a kid (6 years old) when they were here, so my memory is hazy. I could have sworn I recall seeing highlights of them from JFK, but I'm probably confusing them wiht Army/Navy. They switched from spring to fall right? I guess they were in Baltimore by then.

The move to fall was approved, but the league never played a game in the fall.

The Stars played as the Baltimore Stars in 1985 . . . while practicing in Philadelphia and playing home games in College Park, MD (just outside of DC). Apparently, some sort of lease provision prohibited them from playing at Memorial Stadium until 1986.

For the sake of argument, I like to count the 1985 Stars championship among Baltimore's 7 professional football championships --

NFL --

Colts -- 1958, 1959, SB V

Ravens -- SB XXV, XLVII

CFL --

Stallions -- 1995

USFL --

Stars -- 1985

We now return you to your regularly scheduled A11FL discussion.

[raysox]

I'm watching the 30 for 30 on the USFL right now, and there are a few big reasons it failed.

Over expansion- just like the NASL, they were too eager to take franchise fees than build up what they got. They went from 12 to 18 teams for their 2nd year.

Moving to fall- Donald Trump was too impatient and wanted to compete with the NFL when the USFL wasn't ready.

Like they had some talent of people that just wanted to play pro ball. They had some exciting draft picks. 3 straight Heisman trophy winners went to the USFL. On top of that, Jim Kelly and Steve Young. They had a good tv deal. But jumping to compete with the NFL while you only average 25k a game doesn't work. Sure the A11 won't go out and steal Manziel or anyone from the NFL, but if they have an exciting product on the field, there isn't any reason this can't work right now.

[EJ_Barlik]

The A11 Football League announced four of it's eight teams. News is the A11 has bought out everything to do with the new USFL, as well as all of it's team naming rights.

How do you know they bought out the USFL? Seems to me like the new USFL still has a presence on the web & they were looking to go small to medium market. Why would another "different" company with a different vision want to buy out a non-existant league? The new USFL had named no cities, no partners, and kept delaying. Seems to me like these 2 visions of Spring football don't coincide. And I think the "new" USFL had no concept to play "all 11" as the A11FL is going to do. Not saying I am right. Just speculating based on the online presence on the "internets" (ha ha, inside BBT joke there).

[WideRight]

The A11FL bought the rights to the old USFL team names because the "New USFL" was too slow or too clueless to do that. So, by doing that, and by using most of the names, they take most of the air out of the New USFL's attempts to come back and compete against them. By locking in ESPN as a network, and by playing in major markets, the A11FL will likely garner far more attention even if the New USFL manages to finally get organized.

ESPN and NY, CHI, LA, SF clearly trumps no TV yet and cities like Akron, Chattanooga or Little Rock. Add the use of USFL names and this league is trying to stomp out the competition before they hit the field. Now, if they can do this, and get adequate capital to be able to survive 3 years of losses, they could be on to something. (The capital is always the hard part.)

[CrimsonBull9584]

I love the idea of year round football. The fact that ESPN will pick this up is, to me, a sign of legitimacy. The WFL, USFL, and XFL all tried and failed yes, but what's important is that they learn from the mistakes of the past, do not try and compete with the NFL, and stay in the spring. DON'T move to the fall. They just provide another opportunity for players and fans. This is a great idea and I can't wait!

[dfwabel]

Sure the A11 won't go out and steal Manziel or anyone from the NFL, but if they have an exciting product on the field, there isn't any reason this can't work right now.

'Brian in Boston' and I differ with you greatly, because the money is not there and viewing habits are different than they were 30 years ago. As I have said here earlier, the live experience for watching football at home is now preferred over attendance and the gate will count for this league.

For fun, I spent time looking for A11FL stories on both the Dallas Morning News and Fort Worth Star-Telegram websites on any story regarding the "showcase game" in June or the announcement of the Dallas Wranglers. I could not find any. I could not even find league-made press release/announcement from February 6. No interviews with the A11FL brass, no interviews with Dallas Park and Recreation staff (or its Park Board) as they manage the Cotton Bowl and Fair Park. Nothing. The Morning News even has a City Hall blog, which details issues at Fair Park, but nothing on the A11FL, the last news regarding Fair Park was on December 10.

[JackieMoon]

I really like where this league is going, but you bring up some good points dfwabel. If something big doesn't happen, I just don't know how this league can last.

[dfwabel]

I really like where this league is going, but you bring up some good points dfwabel. If something big doesn't happen, I just don't know how this league can last.

Define "big".

Again, they want a minimum of $10 million for a 49% share of each franchise, yet they have basically zero revenue over their last 18 months. For 2015, they're looking for $80 million to fund every team in full but will have revenue from only two "showcase games" which are sandwiched inbetween Memorial Day, a major holiday which is the start of driving season for families.

And if you haven't noticed, the majority of the US has had a bitterly cold winter, so heating bills will be high and will impact summer plans.

[JackieMoon]

By big I meant luring in some ex-NFL player that may give it some fame. Although, even with the XFL they had some names.

I really want this league to work, Springtime football would be cool. However, in this country, I just don't see it taking off with the NFL and NCAAF.

I guess if someone needs that Spring-Summer fix there is always the NRL, not that most people in the U.S. even know what that is.

[BBTV]

I really like where this league is going, but you bring up some good points dfwabel. If something big doesn't happen, I just don't know how this league can last.

Define "big".

Again, they want a minimum of $10 million for a 49% share of each franchise, yet they have basically zero revenue over their last 18 months. For 2015, they're looking for $80 million to fund every team in full but will have revenue from only two "showcase games" which are sandwiched inbetween Memorial Day, a major holiday which is the start of driving season for families.

And if you haven't noticed, the majority of the US has had a bitterly cold winter, so heating bills will be high and will impact summer plans.

It starts on Memorial day? For some reason (obviously I didn't read) I thought it was a spring league. If it doesn't start unil Memorial day, chalk it up to a failure if they ever come to Phila, and probably NY/NJ as well, since 50% of the population is down the shore nearly every weekend between Memorial day and Labor Day.

[kwmoore]

Just read this morning's blog....the showcase games will NOT be featuring any of the eight team identities. Everything will be A11 branded. One dark team, one light team and the top 80 out of the 150 they've been talking about signing will comprise the two teams.

[NCCoachArete]

The intro games start Memorial Day or thereabouts. The league, once it starts playing official games, will start much earlier. The intro games won't even be "official teams", just an opportunity to show what league games may look like.

[Mac the Knife]

However, I do not think the Denver Gold name will return.

<whistling because he knows the answer>

It is the Miners.

<whistling because he knows the answer>

I'm watching the 30 for 30 on the USFL right now, and there are a few big reasons it failed.

Over expansion- just like the NASL, they were too eager to take franchise fees than build up what they got. They went from 12 to 18 teams for their 2nd year.

Moving to fall- Donald Trump was too impatient and wanted to compete with the NFL when the USFL wasn't ready.

Basically because of who he is, Donald Trump is perceived as the sole driving force behind the USFL's attempt to move to the fall. The '30 for 30' focused on him to an extent where it painted him as the bogeyman perhaps for all time. The reality, however, is considerably different.

What people don't seem to remember is that, at the time the decision was made, the league had 18 franchises, and 18 franchise owners. The decision to move to a fall schedule required, under their own rules, an 18-0 (with no abstentions) vote. And the vote was 18-0, with no abstentions. Some knew exactly what the endgame was (Ed DeBartolo shut down his Pittsburgh Maulers immediately after the vote was taken. Others knew they were in trouble, such as when Alfred Taubman and Tad Taube decided to stem their losses by merging Oakland and Michigan), the Tathams basically bought the Arizona Wranglers and merged them with the Outlaws. Yet another set thought they could ride it out in other locations (Joe Canizaro moving the Breakers from New Orleans to Portland). But not one of these people - any one of whom could have stopped the change dead in its tracks - actually did so.

Trump was far from the biggest name in the room that day, far from the richest, and far from the one with the most to gain or lose had the USFL succeeded as a fall venture. So to place the level of blame on Trump as has happened is, at best, disproportional.

[NCCoachArete]

Denver Miners - think along these lines. This is one of the A11FL three member design team. Enjoy.

https://www.behance.net/gallery/Denver-Miners/13860921

[TampaBayEverybodyLovesRays]

I really like where this league is going, but you bring up some good points dfwabel. If something big doesn't happen, I just don't know how this league can last.

Define "big".

Again, they want a minimum of $10 million for a 49% share of each franchise, yet they have basically zero revenue over their last 18 months. For 2015, they're looking for $80 million to fund every team in full but will have revenue from only two "showcase games" which are sandwiched inbetween Memorial Day, a major holiday which is the start of driving season for families.

And if you haven't noticed, the majority of the US has had a bitterly cold winter, so heating bills will be high and will impact summer plans.

It starts on Memorial day? For some reason (obviously I didn't read) I thought it was a spring league. If it doesn't start unil Memorial day, chalk it up to a failure if they ever come to Phila, and probably NY/NJ as well, since 50% of the population is down the shore nearly every weekend between Memorial day and Labor Day.

The Yankees, Mets, and Phillies all seem to do well nearly every weekend in the summer despite "50% of the population" being down the shore nearly every weekend.

[JackieMoon]

Denver Miners - think along these lines. This is one of the A11FL three member design team. Enjoy.

https://www.behance.net/gallery/Denver-Miners/13860921

Any step away from black/gold is a step in the right direction lol

[BBTV]

I really like where this league is going, but you bring up some good points dfwabel. If something big doesn't happen, I just don't know how this league can last.

Define "big".

Again, they want a minimum of $10 million for a 49% share of each franchise, yet they have basically zero revenue over their last 18 months. For 2015, they're looking for $80 million to fund every team in full but will have revenue from only two "showcase games" which are sandwiched inbetween Memorial Day, a major holiday which is the start of driving season for families.

And if you haven't noticed, the majority of the US has had a bitterly cold winter, so heating bills will be high and will impact summer plans.

It starts on Memorial day? For some reason (obviously I didn't read) I thought it was a spring league. If it doesn't start unil Memorial day, chalk it up to a failure if they ever come to Phila, and probably NY/NJ as well, since 50% of the population is down the shore nearly every weekend between Memorial day and Labor Day.

The Yankees, Mets, and Phillies all seem to do well nearly every weekend in the summer despite "50% of the population" being down the shore nearly every weekend.

That number wasn't entirely made up. I read a stat that Philadelphia's weekend population averages around 60% in the summer - even fewer in the 21-35 demographic - it's something that the tourism board uses in their favor, claiming that tourists will be able to park and get around and do things since so many are out of town.

Phillies games, even during the sell-out streak, weren't really full on the weekends, with the exception of the '09 and most of the '10 season. It's not quite pre-season football, but lots of season-ticket holders (including me up until this year since I gave up my seats) give their seats away or stub-hub them to people (there's still plenty of people around who at that time couldn't get tickets any other way and would go to any game they could regardless of when it was.) Also it's when you'd see a lot of opposing fans there. Tickets sold for "sell out" statistics doesn't necessarly equal turn-style clicks.

[Sodboy13]

Just read this morning's blog....the showcase games will NOT be featuring any of the eight team identities. Everything will be A11 branded. One dark team, one light team and the top 80 out of the 150 they've been talking about signing will comprise the two teams.

Oh, so it's a less-interesting adaptatiin of the UFL approach.