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Tampa Bay Buccaneers Getting New Logo, Helmet & Uniforms

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Would it have killed them to run it past the fans first? I mean, Fortune 500 companies do test trials with real people all the time, so why not the Bucs? "These are our new uniforms and there's nothing you can do about it" is the height of arrogance and tone deafness.

Because fans don't know what they want. Half will hate it, half will love it. Other teams have tried it and it's never worked before.

You're forgetting that your typical fan doesn't know the first thing about uniform design.

I find that very hard to believe in this instance. These unis are objectively bad.

Nope, it's subjectively bad. You hate them, so do many others, but someone out there loves them.

There have been numerous attempts to have fans pick uniforms. It never works out because no one can ever agree on anything.

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Not sily at all. In fact when i am designing concepts that is something i think myself. "How is a 35 year old man going to look in this?". Tou have to find the area between what your audience will like and what your product (players) look in it. I made a post a few days ago about how Nike is focusing on the younger audience and i think we can see that is quite clear and the NFL is on board with it

Focusing on the young is fine but creating garbage that pollutes our visual world isn't. There has to be some basic level of design applied so as to not dumb down the visual acumen of our society. Honestly the numerals look like a middle schoolers notebook sketches. Nike needs to be better than that. The NFL needs to be better than that. And Tampa Bay deserves better than that.

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What's sad to me is that the new "Pewter" is actually my favorite Pantone color (and has been for a long time):

PMS_Black7_C_SRGB.png

What's unique about it is the ink mix - Black plus Metallic Silver. A slightly metallic color.

...however, they're using a blended Metallic color for the helmets:

PMT_8624_C_SRGB.png

I think the problem here is the execution. Among other things.

Oh - and here's the Pantone Textile color they're matching it up against for the fabrics:

PTX_19-0000_TCX_SRGB.png

Yes, it's somewhat ironic that Pantone calls this color "Raven".

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I teach high school. All of the kids think these things are "raw" and or "live". We're fighting a losing battle if we think good taste will ever make a come back.

As a HS student.

1. No one has ever described something as raw or live. EVER.

2. Everyone I know thinks these are ugly.

3. Don't be that old guy who just thinks his generation was so much better. I can point out UGLY uniforms from any era. Everyone remembers the Celtics, the Maple Leafs, the Blackhawks, and the Chiefs, but do you remember the 1980 Pistons, 1990 Sixers, 1995 Islanders, 1960 Steelers, 1960s Broncos, 2000 Warriors, 2000s Niners, 1980s Cardinals, etc.

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When you think of some of the all-time greats - especially towards the end of their careers when they looked noticeably older than college kids - think guys like Bruce Smith, Reggie White, Joe Montana, Peyton Manning - can you imagine them wearing a uniform like this? We'll use Reggie White as an example, because he looked older than his actual age. I can see him in any old-school traditional uniform, but he'd also look perfectly normal in the Bucs last set, the Eagles current set, the Jags Buerlein-era, even the Titans. He would look down right silly as a distinguished-looking older man wearing these uniforms. I mean anyone would look silly in these, but at least younger kids can sorta get away with it.

I feel the same way about John Elway in the monochrome Broncos get-up that he modeled. It looked ridiculous on him. I think Peyton looks a little silly in the current Broncos uniform, but maybe I'm just so used to it that I don't find it too offensive.

The day that a HOF player is immortalized in a statue depicting him in an outfit like this will be a sad one.

Bh0yxhsCEAAxWUE.jpg

Not sily at all. In fact when i am designing concepts that is something i think myself. "How is a 35 year old man going to look in this?". Tou have to find the area between what your audience will like and what your product (players) look in it. I made a post a few days ago about how Nike is focusing on the younger audience and i think we can see that is quite clear and the NFL is on board with it

Well that's a trick question. No self respecting 35 year old would wear such a thing. They would either purchase a retro #56 M&N creamsicle or keep it real with their D. Brooks #55 that they bought in '99.

I just don't see this as an appealing or fashionable product to anyone over the age of 25.

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What's sad to me is that the new "Pewter" is actually my favorite Pantone color (and has been for a long time):

PMS_Black7_C_SRGB.png

What's unique about it is the ink mix - Black plus Metallic Silver. A slightly metallic color.

...however, they're using a blended Metallic color for the helmets:

PMT_8624_C_SRGB.png

I think the problem here is the execution. Among other things.

Oh - and here's the Pantone Textile color they're matching it up against for the fabrics:

PTX_19-0000_TCX_SRGB.png

Yes, it's somewhat ironic that Pantone calls this color "Raven".

How far off is that from nike anthracite?

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anyone else miss reebok and their regular looking jerseys w/o sweat boxes and pit stain stripes and most of all normal looking uniforms?

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What were they thinking!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? The helmets are really good, but the uniforms... man they struck out big time.

I mean, I can't look at the numbers without thinking of:

alarm-clock-31.jpg

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Four out of the five teams Nike has overhauled have some kind of asymmetrical element. Seahawks shoulder wordmark, Vikings numbers, Jags patch and now Bucs logo/wordmark on sleeve. (Wrote about it on my blog http://bit.ly/1pXeUEc )

Subtle, but it might be part of Nike's branding identity. Just a thought.

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Four out of the five teams Nike has overhauled have some kind of asymmetrical element. Seahawks shoulder wordmark, Vikings numbers, Jags patch and now Bucs logo/wordmark on sleeve. (Wrote about it on my blog http://bit.ly/1pXeUEc )

Subtle, but it might be part of Nike's branding identity. Just a thought.

Why did this release 2 days early? I figure if anyone knew it would be you.

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I cannot say for certain but I believe Nike accidentally leaked it. I was on nikeinc.com to look at the new USMNT kits and they were already posted. The Bucs link then went down after a few minutes. Later, the Bucs announced it. Sounds like they just covered the leak.

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I teach high school. All of the kids think these things are "raw" and or "live". We're fighting a losing battle if we think good taste will ever make a come back.

As a HS student.

1. No one has ever described something as raw or live. EVER.

2. Everyone I know thinks these are ugly.

3. Don't be that old guy who just thinks his generation was so much better. I can point out UGLY uniforms from any era. Everyone remembers the Celtics, the Maple Leafs, the Blackhawks, and the Chiefs, but do you remember the 1980 Pistons, 1990 Sixers, 1995 Islanders, 1960 Steelers, 1960s Broncos, 2000 Warriors, 2000s Niners, 1980s Cardinals, etc.

As a HS student:

1. Raw was actually used twice today by two different people describing the uniform. Mind you, this coming from 2 of the best basketball players in the area. (Athletes who usually have an idea of what looks good on and off the field)

2. People I talked to at school were actually quite positive about it. Besides the number font, everybody seemed to be happy with the change. Including my 50 year old father who used to be a season ticket holder for 10+ years. He welcomes the change and hopes it brings some sort of success.

3. Every generation has a set of stinkers. Unfortunately, this modern style of uniforms are all very unique and going for shock value; Thus, there is a higher likelyhood of stinkers. While the 70's and 80's all had some bad uniforms, the style was much different back then... shock value wasn't on the mind of these uniform designers. The 90's...well... that's a different story. :lol:

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To fire up the discussion here are the jerseys compared to each other:

Bh04n-FCMAEHxJu.jpg

Okay, now I guess I can make a fair assessment...

Why this doesn't work:

-Beforehand, the Bucs were a traditional team with modern touches. That's why the old wordmark and practice numbers stuck out like a sore thumb, because they were the only blatanly modern (for that time) elements in their overall identity. Their logo, wordmark, and helmet update promised to keep that "traditional, yet slightly modern" theme going, as the changes were in keeping with their image by being minor ones that still reflected modern trends (cleaned-up logos, bigger logo on the helmet, chrome). So, the logical thing would be to have the jerseys be similar to the Dolphins or Vikings, traditional with a few modern touches here or there. They decided to go full modern, which is the complete opposite of everything their brand was, and looked to still be prior to this unveiling.

-The yoke severely throws off the color balance. Look at the new white jersey vs. the old. What stands out? The new one is far more pewter-heavy as opposed to the old one. Therefore, you get a case of pewter overload, as there's way too much pewter at the top. Also, the yoke existing at all is a bad move, as again, it's an extremely modern element that simply wasn't there before. Now had this been the Titans, okay. They've established the yoke as part of their identity. Had this been the Bengals, who likely would've incorporated stripes into the yoke like Mizzou, then okay. Then the yoke would would serve a design purpose within their identity. What purpose does it serve for the Bucs other than being modern?

-The use of orange is bad. Tell me, what level of importance do you give to orange by looking at the jerseys alone? You'd think it was an important tertiary color, right? So why is it nowhere on the helmet and hard to see on the numbers? The bad thing about having the random slashes of orange on the jersey is that it draws your eyes straight to it, then leaves you wondering why there's a lack of it anywhere else. The Seahawks overdid it a bit with their lime green, but they had the right idea, since it's not used sparingly in certain areas, and nowhere at all everywhere else. The old jerseys left no doubt as to where orange stood on the level of color importance, but the annoying random appearances of orange in the new jerseys causes confusion and muddles the look.

-The thin outlines hurt the numbers even more than the font itself, especially on the red jersey. Maybe it's just me, but I'm having a hard time recognizing the outlines on the numbers. It comes off as a big, almost-glowing pure white mass. Now let's be fair, the old jerseys had outlining issues as well. But, the thick black outlines (a design element carried over from their logo) kept everything together, as the use of black helped keep certain colors separate, and kept the overall look clean and not cartoony (strange that thinner black lines would help contribute to a cartoonier look, eh?).

-Speaking of black, that's another thing these jerseys are missing. Black appears as thin trim in the numbers, logos, and wordmarks only. This is a problem, because the main colors used in the helmet are pewter, red, white, and black! If anything, the cleaner look of the new logo emphasizes the use of black as strictly trim, as opposed to a full-fledged color option like the previous set. So why not use it for its intended purpose, the purpose it was used for on the helmet, and use it as clearly-visible trim around the numbers, yoke, and pants color box?

How it could've been fixed:

-Scrap the overtly-modern elements, they have no place in the Bucs identity. The yoke and pants color box have to go. Get a real pants stripe, or go without one altogether. Don't go halfway.

-Figure out how you're going to use orange, then add it to the helmet accordingly.

-Use black like you used it for the logo, as the primary source of trim. None of this multiple-thin-outlines-with-chrome-added nonsense.

(I have a hunch that the numbers are just the icing on the crap cake, had the Bucs gone with a simpler design like the Dolphins & Vikings, yet kept the number font we see now, they would've been recieved much like the Vikings and Dolphins' fonts were: An unfortunate choice, but not a deal-breaker.)

If it was like the previous design with those numbers, it would be weird but ok. if it was the jersey with a different set of numbers it would be at the worst meh. If the pewter was shiny instead matte, maybe it would be decent. The Dolphins just look boring while the Vikes are a good modernization. But no. They look figuratively and literally look crap.

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While I haven't been a fan of recent new looks for Seattle, Miami, and JAX, I actually like this Tampa set. Guess I'm in the minority.

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I'm going to be honest, seeing the orange on pewter with the swooshes and the collarbone slit things, It's teasing me a whole lot. Wish they would have gone Orange/Pewter.

But with the real thing, I like the helmet, everything else not a fan of.

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The numbers look so bad. They make the entire jersey an eye sore

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Would it have killed them to run it past the fans first? I mean, Fortune 500 companies do test trials with real people all the time, so why not the Bucs? "These are our new uniforms and there's nothing you can do about it" is the height of arrogance and tone deafness.

Because fans don't know what they want. Half will hate it, half will love it. Other teams have tried it and it's never worked before.

You're forgetting that your typical fan doesn't know the first thing about uniform design.

I find that very hard to believe in this instance. These unis are objectively bad.

Nope, it's subjectively bad. You hate them, so do many others, but someone out there loves them.

There have been numerous attempts to have fans pick uniforms. It never works out because no one can ever agree on anything.

I'm not saying the fans should have designed the unis. I'm saying the team should have shown them the art concepts so this thing could have been strangled in its crib--kind of like what happened with the Niners' new helmet years ago. Now it's too late.

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Would it have killed them to run it past the fans first? I mean, Fortune 500 companies do test trials with real people all the time, so why not the Bucs? "These are our new uniforms and there's nothing you can do about it" is the height of arrogance and tone deafness.

Because fans don't know what they want. Half will hate it, half will love it. Other teams have tried it and it's never worked before.

You're forgetting that your typical fan doesn't know the first thing about uniform design.

I find that very hard to believe in this instance. These unis are objectively bad.

Nope, it's subjectively bad. You hate them, so do many others, but someone out there loves them.

There have been numerous attempts to have fans pick uniforms. It never works out because no one can ever agree on anything.

I'm not saying the fans should have designed the unis. I'm saying the team should have shown them the art concepts so this thing could have been strangled in its crib--kind of like what happened with the Niners' new helmet years ago. Now it's too late.

But that's exactly the point I was making. It wouldn't have solved anything.

They show them to 100 fans...

"They're great! I love them!"

"They suck! Get rid of them!"

"I guess they're okay..."

"I don't really care..."

See the problem? No one is going to agree and what someone likes today they may not like tomorrow. There is a reason teams rarely consider fan input, because fans don't often know what they really want.

EDIT: The other problem is you almost always only hear from a vocal minority. Message boards like this always have extremes, either those who love them or those who hate them. You're not often going to hear from the people in the middle, which is another reason why fan-based surveys and polls are generally flawed.

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Would it have killed them to run it past the fans first? I mean, Fortune 500 companies do test trials with real people all the time, so why not the Bucs? "These are our new uniforms and there's nothing you can do about it" is the height of arrogance and tone deafness.

Because fans don't know what they want. Half will hate it, half will love it. Other teams have tried it and it's never worked before.

You're forgetting that your typical fan doesn't know the first thing about uniform design.

I find that very hard to believe in this instance. These unis are objectively bad.

Nope, it's subjectively bad. You hate them, so do many others, but someone out there loves them.

There have been numerous attempts to have fans pick uniforms. It never works out because no one can ever agree on anything.

I'm not saying the fans should have designed the unis. I'm saying the team should have shown them the art concepts so this thing could have been strangled in its crib--kind of like what happened with the Niners' new helmet years ago. Now it's too late.

But that's exactly the point I was making. It wouldn't have solved anything.

They show them to 100 fans...

"They're great! I love them!"

"They suck! Get rid of them!"

"I guess they're okay..."

"I don't really care..."

See the problem? No one is going to agree and what someone likes today they may not like tomorrow. There is a reason teams rarely consider fan input, because fans don't often know what they really want.

EDIT: The other problem is you almost always only hear from a vocal minority. Message boards like this always have extremes, either those who love them or those who hate them. You're not often going to hear from the people in the middle, which is another reason why fan-based surveys and polls are generally flawed.

There are other ways of getting feedback other than five word responses. Quantitative measures are a big deal.

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