New Browns uni coming 2015

[GFB]

Actually, I'd argue Good Taste is objective, it's just simply varies by the individual the ability to discern it.

Under your mode of thinking, the good taste of a wine enthusiast who has traveled the globe for 40 years sampling wines from different countries holds the same amount of weight as the preferences of a high school girl sneaking a bottle from her parent's wine rack with her friends. Or that my own ability to determine what is good rap music is at the same level as Kendrick Lamar's opinion of good rap.

Saying everyone's opinion of Good Taste is equal in all areas of life and it all comes down to personal preference is a nice sentiment, but deep down, you know that isn't true.

That's a very self-righteous way of looking at things. Actually I am a wine enthusiast and I've found bottles of wine in the $18 range that taste far superiour to $200+ bottles. Again, good taste is absolutlely nothing more than a personal opinion based on either your own personal expericences or by what your curtural surroundings have taught you.

I don't see how it's a self-righteous point of view to understand that there are some areas of life where you have gained experience, knowledge, and passion that leads you to having a better understanding of it and creating an informed opinion that (should) hold more weight than average; and other areas where you have less experience and can simply gravitate towards what you like. That's not saying you should enjoy those areas any less, but what I am suggesting is that perhaps you shouldn't hold your own opinion in those areas as the pinnacle, end-all-be-all of opinions.

I chose to use wine specifically for that reason (your screen name led me to it). I don't doubt that you have tasted expensive wines that have tasted worse than a cheaper, inexpensive wine... In fact, I had hoped that was the case. Your knowledge and experience of sampling a variety of wines has led you to create that opinion of good taste and that is the very point I'm trying to make. If we were in the wine cellar and I pulled out this $200 bottle of wine and I asked for your opinion of it and you replied: "No, that's not very good... try this $100 bottle instead, it's much more dense and has a nice acidity," I would value your opinion higher than my own as a novice of wine tasting. Does that mean that I'm personally going to like the $100 bottle you recommended more than $200 bottle? Not necessarily... but the point is that your experience with wine has perhaps developed a sense of Good Taste that I haven't gained yet in my naivety.

This point of view doesn't eliminate personal preference from the equation, but enhances it. If we were both wine aficionados, we could have a lively debate about why I liked or didn't like the wine you chose and would be able to competently illustrate our reasoning for it according to our own experiences of how a red wine should taste. But if I've had two glasses of wine in my entire life to that point, then perhaps my preference on what good wine is shouldn't hold that much weight to you or (if I'm smart) myself if I declare I prefer one wine because it has a better-designed label.

[TL;DR]

Again, it's about placing value on opinions. The new-Brown-uniform curmudgeons on this forum may be in the minority compared to the majority of Browns fans, but I place more value on the opinions of the people here than I do with the opinions on the Browns' Facebook page because I know these people have a passion for uniform design and are gaining expertise and taste in judging uniforms (though some have made more progress in that journey than others... ha, I kid). Does this mean that I'll always agree with every consensus opinion on the board? Certainly not! Go see the NHL thread for examples of that (I like the Coyotes new jerseys and hate their current logo... that's definitely a minority opinion here). But even for when we disagree because of personal preference, we can draw our arguments from experience and knowledge instead of solely relying on our personal tastes; there's a different value between the opinions of "I like the new Browns uniform because it embraces the historical tradition of the Browns and yet ushers in a new era. The new shade of orange is an upgrade with the helmet finish, and the new font better represents the direction of Cleveland as a city," compared to "Wow, that's hot!!!1! We look FLY!"

(I apologize for the diatribe. I wrote a philosophy paper in college on the subject, so I'm fairly sold on this idea of objective Good Taste)

[Gothamite]

I am in full agreement with you.

Except for putting "tl;dr" in front of those two extremely lengthy paragraphs.

[sportzfan]

http://www.nflshop.com/pages/Top_Selling_Jerseys/source/bm-nflcom-NFLSocial

so even with new jerseys they can't get past the top 25 in jersey sales. so even if the browns fans say they like them, they don't like them enough to buy them.

[TheRicSlick]

http://www.nflshop.com/pages/Top_Selling_Jerseys/source/bm-nflcom-NFLSocial

so even with new jerseys they can't get past the top 25 in jersey sales. so even if the browns fans say they like them, they don't like them enough to buy them.

It would also help if the Browns actually had a star player.

Also, Bucs at #8

[JayMac]

http://www.nflshop.com/pages/Top_Selling_Jerseys/source/bm-nflcom-NFLSocial

so even with new jerseys they can't get past the top 25 in jersey sales. so even if the browns fans say they like them, they don't like them enough to buy them.

It would also help if the Browns actually had a star player.

Also, Bucs at #8

Manziel jerseys aren't selling like hotcakes anymore?

[obiwantok]

http://www.nflshop.com/pages/Top_Selling_Jerseys/source/bm-nflcom-NFLSocial

so even with new jerseys they can't get past the top 25 in jersey sales. so even if the browns fans say they like them, they don't like them enough to buy them.

Or they all just buy from Dick's Sporting Goods: http://www.dsg.com/jerseyreport/football

(Joe Haden at #1 for the past 30 days)

[CLEstones]

According to DICK'S Sporting Goods... the Cleveland Browns have the #1 selling jersey in 2015.

In addition, Joe Haden is the top selling jersey in all of football and Donte Whitner is #10.

Again, this is just according to DICK'S Sporting Goods: http://www.dsg.com/jerseyreport/football/charts/rankings/player/offensive/season

http://www.nflshop.com/pages/Top_Selling_Jerseys/source/bm-nflcom-NFLSocial

so even with new jerseys they can't get past the top 25 in jersey sales. so even if the browns fans say they like them, they don't like them enough to buy them.

It would also help if the Browns actually had a star player.

Also, Bucs at #8

Manziel jerseys aren't selling like hotcakes anymore?

Depends who you ask. According to DICK'S, Maziel is the top selling jersey in Ohio, Kentucky, and Oklahoma.

[Sport]

The Browns would sell well if the jerseys were an actual piece of $hit that said BROWNS. The Buffaslug was the best selling jersey in the NHL in 2006-2007. New gear sells a lot of the time just because it's new gear. That's why teams change in the first place.

Most of my friends who are Browns fans either hate them, or are conceding they only cared about the helmet not changing and in their mind it didn't change enough to bother them. I haven't heard much if anything outright vocal support.

[Red Wine Pirate]

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2015-07-07/joe-haden-nfl-odell-beckham-johnny-manziel-browns-demarco-murray-cam-newton-colin-kaepernick-dicks-sporting-goods-

Wow, the Cleveland Browns new jersey is the top selling jersey (non-rookie hype, too). Looks like another one of their jerseys checked in at #10. Looks like it was a success.

[Gothamite]

Go up a little - that's only one retailer. Contrast that with the fact that only Haden cracks the top 5 at any position on the NFL's site itself (and then only just).

Still too early to use these numbers in support of anything.

[CitizenTino]

Go up a little - that's only one retailer. Contrast that with the fact that only Haden cracks the top 5 at any position on the NFL's site itself (and then only just).

Still too early to use these numbers in support of anything.

Are the NFL's numbers based on anything other than the NFL Shop website sales?

[WavePunter]

As McCarthy stated, the Browns jerseys are only selling because they're now the "current" look, and any fans who want to be up-to-date at games and with their fan gear, have purchased the new gear. It's not because the look is so popular, it's because people don't want to walk around in "old, outdated" gear..

[Gothamite]

Go up a little - that's only one retailer. Contrast that with the fact that only Haden cracks the top 5 at any position on the NFL's site itself (and then only just).

Still too early to use these numbers in support of anything.

Are the NFL's numbers based on anything other than the NFL Shop website sales?

Nope. It's just one retailer's numbers, like the other one.

[oldschoolvikings]

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2015-07-07/joe-haden-nfl-odell-beckham-johnny-manziel-browns-demarco-murray-cam-newton-colin-kaepernick-dicks-sporting-goods-

Wow, the Cleveland Browns new jersey is the top selling jersey (non-rookie hype, too). Looks like another one of their jerseys checked in at #10. Looks like it was a success.

Success at a short term uptick in sales? Yes.

Success at a well-designed uniform that will last much more than the required 5 years? No.

[RyanMcD29]

Gonna bump this because I know many have to update our pocket pro display case this time of year. Has anyone had any luck finding the new Browns helmets in the pocket pro size? NFL.com shop has the new ones in the full size and mini helmets but not the pocket pros yet and it doesn't look like GT Wholesale has them, either.

[JayMac]

Gonna bump this because I know many have to update our pocket pro display case this time of year. Has anyone had any luck finding the new Browns helmets in the pocket pro size? NFL.com shop has the new ones in the full size and mini helmets but not the pocket pros yet and it doesn't look like GT Wholesale has them, either.

No luck yet for me either.

[SunnyHMoon]

I think if they:

- trimmed the numbers

- change the number colour from orange to brown on white jerseys and orange to white on brown jerseys

- either get rid of or significantly reduce "CLEVELAND"

- bring back striped socks

... It would make for a decent set. Browns on the pant is growing on me.

[oldschoolvikings]

Well, I saw the jersey in person for the first time this weekend. I gotta say, it looks even a little wonkier in person. Originally, I didn't really have a big reaction the the contrast stitching... I think in photos and most likely on TV, it'll be pretty harmless. But in person, the stitching stands out way more than I expected it to. Distracting. I still think the orange numbers on the brown jersey will be hard to read... in person backs that up, to me. Lower contrast than I'd like for jersey numbers. And the number font is so weird... I just don't get the overall concept. In photos, I kept thinking I was getting a bad angle, but in person, the same thing is happening. i just slightly off angles make all the numbers seem crooked.

[BBTV]

Oh wow - I thought the center bar of the 2 was straight - I never noticed those slight angles until now.

I thought it was bad before, but now it looks like it's shaking or something. What the hell were they thinking there? That may be the ultimate example of wanting to use a block font but altering it just enough to be "custom" and totally ruining it.

That's getting closer and closer to Bucs-level bad every time I look at it.

[oldschoolvikings]

Oh wow - I thought the center bar of the 2 was straight - I never noticed those slight angles until now.

I thought it was bad before, but now it looks like it's shaking or something. What the hell were they thinking there? That may be the ultimate example of wanting to use a block font but altering it just enough to be "custom" and totally ruining it.

That's getting closer and closer to Bucs-level bad every time I look at it.

It's very odd...

It's like no matter how carefully their placed, it looks misaligned. Or like you say, shaky.