daveindc

New Browns uni coming 2015

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The stripe wrapping is a result of the fit. Back when Starter and Rebok ran the show, they uniforms were basically like oversize shirts that women sleep in. They were big, they were boxy, they bunched under the arms.

Nike's fit is tighter, closer to the pads, more fitted. With the new modern uniform fits, wrapping sleeve stripes all the way around would look stupid. I would like a child tried to sew the uniforms together.

The only REAL test is how they look on TV or in the stands. If they stripes LOOK like they are wrapping, but don't actually wrap, its not an issue. The only time you can tell is during interviews or close ups. This isn't a Broadway play where you are up close to the actors. Its football. You watch it on TV or from a distance in the stands.

Can I dash a bit of irony on this topic and revert it BACK to the Cleveland Browns.

Starter, reebok, puma, adidas, early nike etc. did not manufacture or design jerseys in the 90's-00's. They simply bought the rights to slap a logo on the side. From what I can best recall The only manufacturers back then were wilson, champion, russell and i believe ripon may have done some private labels. Also don't forget whoever made the raiders uniforms for however many decades. Things obviously changed with the broncos redesign where nike created their 1st original template but they still did not manufacture the uniform. Nike uses contract manufactures with nearly all of their product and continues to do so today.

The issue with the ucla stripe in general is that the classic shoulder hoop used to run under the arm pit. In the late 90's the smaller cap sleeve jerseys became popular which no longer have material under the arm.

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The stripe wrapping is a result of the fit. Back when Starter and Rebok ran the show, they uniforms were basically like oversize shirts that women sleep in. They were big, they were boxy, they bunched under the arms.

Nike's fit is tighter, closer to the pads, more fitted. With the new modern uniform fits, wrapping sleeve stripes all the way around would look stupid. I would like a child tried to sew the uniforms together.

The only REAL test is how they look on TV or in the stands. If they stripes LOOK like they are wrapping, but don't actually wrap, its not an issue. The only time you can tell is during interviews or close ups. This isn't a Broadway play where you are up close to the actors. Its football. You watch it on TV or from a distance in the stands.

I vehemently disagree with the bolded and slightly disagree with the nonbolded. You are constantly up close to the actors in football. In many cases we are closers to the actors in football than we are at a Broadway play. We have HD TV with hundreds of closeups throughout a game, jerseys sales are at an all time high so there's fans sitting in the stands wearing the jerseys 5 feet away, we see these things at stores, on players in advertisements, and up-close photography. The real test is NOT only how they look from the stands. There's no reason a uniform can't look great in both close and far away applications. In fact, it absolutely should strive for that at all costs. That's why piping on football uniforms sucks and why large bold striping has been the mark of football uniform design for decades.

To your second point, we hear this all the time. "The Nike fit is too tight to make a stripe that wraps around". HOGWASH. There is no reason on a tight modern uniform cut that shoulder stripes can't wrap around or at the very least they could make an attempt to make the stripe extend farther down and closer to the armpit. The Jets' shoulders are a joke and nobody should defend them. We've seen it work before. It's that they don't care to try. UCLA's current shoulder striping is unacceptable and the University should've said no. It's the manufacturer taking the easy way out and the team not caring enough to say "no not acceptable". I disagree that it would look stupid if you tried to apply this on the current Nike template.

Further, and this baffles me most that people here, fans of sports uniform design, defend Nike in this case - Nike took teams' designs and made them work for their template instead of making their template work for the teams designs. That is completely backwards.

Jerseys worn by NFL players in the 90's were only slightly looser than they are now and Starter, Puma etc. managed to make it work. There is not so much less space now that they couldn't make it work. We've just gotten to the point where it's been so long that manufacturers have been pushing these half-measures that people just accept it as status quo. Let's be better.

Here's my take on fixing the Jets

The only uniform change the Browns should make it striped brown socks and burn the brown pants and any photographs of the brown pants ever being worn.

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"Further, and this baffles me most that people here, fans of sports uniform design, defend Nike in this case - Nike took teams' designs and made them work for their template instead of making their template work for the teams designs. That is completely backwards"

Sorry to break this to you but hardly anybody builds exactly to customer specifications anymore. It's viewed as inefficient and unscaleable therefore nobody wants to do it because the setup and design costs don't pencil out to the modern manufacturing business. Whether it's construction, clothing, or graphic design you're unfortunately going to be forced to pick from a generic design/template then you can customize within those parameters. I'm not saying I agree with it but that's just how things are done. If the jets really gave a damn they could go design and source their own uniform in house to their exact specs outside of nike and simply put the swoosh on it. Why haven't they done that? Either they don't care to go that length of effort and are fine with the nike product or it's simply too expensive/not worth the time or $.

Also how do you make a ucla stripe wrap under the arm if there's no material in that space? Basically you now have to wrap along the side panels which would give you a houston rocket distorted ring effect. I don't see that as much of a solution. The best fix thus far is the lsu template.

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I definitely think there are going to be 1 or 2 aspects of the uniform that are atrocious but like I said, I am cautiously optimistic...

But why must those one or two atrocious aspect be included? Why can't they just produce a nice, clean, classy uniform with no atrociousness?

Because I think there is value in innovation. I think there is vslue thinking outside the box. Even when it comes to aesthetics, even if it doesn't look as good as something basic/less innovative may look.

The fan base is starting to wane but it is still there and is still fairly strong nationally. You can see it when they go on the road. A lot of games you can hear cheering for the Browns louder than the home team. I think the innovation, even if it's poor, gets people talking, gets people to notice. The fan base gets upset, but their fandom stays. The innovation may, just may, garner attention, and garner some support that may not be there. There is substantial value in being first... Even if what you are first for isn't all that great.

It's a stretch I know.

Wow, I couldn't disagree with this more. Innovation for it's own sake is the absolute antithesis of good design. As for being first, ask any journalist who "got the story first" then had to apologize for days for getting it wrong. There is absolutely zero value in being first if first sucks (example... see the first two-toned helmet in the NFL).

Creative-coffe-cup-design-11-9.jpg

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creative-bad-designs-11.jpg\

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"Further, and this baffles me most that people here, fans of sports uniform design, defend Nike in this case - Nike took teams' designs and made them work for their template instead of making their template work for the teams designs. That is completely backwards"

Sorry to break this to you but hardly anybody builds exactly to customer specifications anymore. It's viewed as inefficient and unscaleable therefore nobody wants to do it because the setup and design costs don't pencil out to the modern manufacturing business. Whether it's construction, clothing, or graphic design you're unfortunately going to be forced to pick from a generic design/template then you can customize within those parameters. I'm not saying I agree with it but that's just how things are done. If the jets really gave a damn they could go design and source their own uniform in house to their exact specs outside of nike and simply put the swoosh on it. Why haven't they done that? Either they don't care to go that length of effort and are fine with the nike product or it's simply too expensive/not worth the time or $.

Also how do you make a ucla stripe wrap under the arm if there's no material in that space? Basically you now have to wrap along the side panels which would give you a houston rocket distorted ring effect. I don't see that as much of a solution. The best fix thus far is the lsu template.

Thanks for breaking that to me, but I worked in manufacturing and design for five years. This isn't the eastbay catalogue though. If an NFL team wants something special then Nike will do it. The Patriots said no to their dumbass flywire collar and Nike delivered it to them. I refuse to believe some decent form of shoulder stripes couldn't be sewn over their fancy high-tech seams if a team really wanted them.

I'm not saying the Jets aren't culpable. It takes two parties to make a bad uniform and clearly the Jets don't care that their shoulders look like garbage, but the supplier could also do more to not deliver crap and say it's the best we could do.

"Also how do you make a ucla stripe wrap under the arm if there's no material in that space? Basically you now have to wrap along the side panels which would give you a houston rocket distorted ring effect. I don't see that as much of a solution. The best fix thus far is the lsu template."

The LSU template is okay and extending the stripes down to the armpit area rather than leaving that hard stop around the collarbone is a better solution, but it still leaves something to be desired. If the stripes curled inwards towards the armpit at the bottom that would look more like a natural shoulder hoop and would be a more successful attempt at conveying that style of striping.

There's two solutions that I think would work better than LSU to make full bodied shoulder hoop striping that doesn't end at the collar bone, but also doesn't create the Houston Rockets effect. First: taper the stripes so they get smaller as they run out of real estate. It'll give the appearance that they're wrapping around even if they don't completely meet under the arm. Even if they don't meet it'll still be a more elegant way to present UCLA style striping than that dumb hard stop on the top of the shoulders. Second: extend the stripe in a loop until it meets the cuff on the sleeve Like this: http://boards.sportslogos.net/topic/101171-mccarthys-nfl/?p=2341406

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I definitely think there are going to be 1 or 2 aspects of the uniform that are atrocious but like I said, I am cautiously optimistic...

But why must those one or two atrocious aspect be included? Why can't they just produce a nice, clean, classy uniform with no atrociousness?

Because I think there is value in innovation. I think there is vslue thinking outside the box. Even when it comes to aesthetics, even if it doesn't look as good as something basic/less innovative may look.

The fan base is starting to wane but it is still there and is still fairly strong nationally. You can see it when they go on the road. A lot of games you can hear cheering for the Browns louder than the home team. I think the innovation, even if it's poor, gets people talking, gets people to notice. The fan base gets upset, but their fandom stays. The innovation may, just may, garner attention, and garner some support that may not be there. There is substantial value in being first... Even if what you are first for isn't all that great.

It's a stretch I know.

Wow, I couldn't disagree with this more. Innovation for it's own sake is the absolute antithesis of good design. As for being first, ask any journalist who "got the story first" then had to apologize for days for getting it wrong. There is absolutely zero value in being first if first sucks (example... see the first two-toned helmet in the NFL).

Creative-coffe-cup-design-11-9.jpg

whitebarsweb-thumb-450x337-20321.jpg

creative-bad-designs-11.jpg\

\\

The pictures you posted are innovations that don't improve on any existing design. You are acutely making the product harder to do what it was intended for. When we are talking Nike innovations, the 2 tone helmet has never been done before. There is value in being the first team to wear a 2 tone helmet. The innovation does not inhibit the products original intent: protecting the head.

The flower shaped coffee mug is innovative, but it inhibits a person's ability to drink out of it without messing themselves. Same with the bed. Its not natural to sleep on something like that, even if that is the position in which you sleep. The 2 tone helmet is still a helmet, it just adds a variation of aesthetics. The Jaguars were a terrible team to utilize it with. But think if the Toledo Rockets used it. You could argue its an ingenious design, as it mimics a rocket's reentry in to an atmosphere, heat and flames burning the nose end. The jaguars... doesn't make any sense, especially when you slap a logo in the middle of the seam.

As for whoever mentioned making the template fit the uniform... that defeats the whole purpose of a template. There is no point in having a template if it is going to be modified to meet every teams specific needs.

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I definitely think there are going to be 1 or 2 aspects of the uniform that are atrocious but like I said, I am cautiously optimistic...

But why must those one or two atrocious aspect be included? Why can't they just produce a nice, clean, classy uniform with no atrociousness?

Because I think there is value in innovation. I think there is vslue thinking outside the box. Even when it comes to aesthetics, even if it doesn't look as good as something basic/less innovative may look.

The fan base is starting to wane but it is still there and is still fairly strong nationally. You can see it when they go on the road. A lot of games you can hear cheering for the Browns louder than the home team. I think the innovation, even if it's poor, gets people talking, gets people to notice. The fan base gets upset, but their fandom stays. The innovation may, just may, garner attention, and garner some support that may not be there. There is substantial value in being first... Even if what you are first for isn't all that great.

It's a stretch I know.

Wow, I couldn't disagree with this more. Innovation for it's own sake is the absolute antithesis of good design. As for being first, ask any journalist who "got the story first" then had to apologize for days for getting it wrong. There is absolutely zero value in being first if first sucks (example... see the first two-toned helmet in the NFL).

\\

The pictures you posted are innovations that don't improve on any existing design. You are acutely making the product harder to do what it was intended for. When we are talking Nike innovations, the 2 tone helmet has never been done before. There is value in being the first team to wear a 2 tone helmet. The innovation does not inhibit the products original intent: protecting the head.

The flower shaped coffee mug is innovative, but it inhibits a person's ability to drink out of it without messing themselves. Same with the bed. Its not natural to sleep on something like that, even if that is the position in which you sleep. The 2 tone helmet is still a helmet, it just adds a variation of aesthetics. The Jaguars were a terrible team to utilize it with. But think if the Toledo Rockets used it. You could argue its an ingenious design, as it mimics a rocket's reentry in to an atmosphere, heat and flames burning the nose end. The jaguars... doesn't make any sense, especially when you slap a logo in the middle of the seam.

As for whoever mentioned making the template fit the uniform... that defeats the whole purpose of a template. There is no point in having a template if it is going to be modified to meet every teams specific needs.

Is the value the altruistic feelings they get about providing the other 31 teams a warning?

I get it...these are case-by-case. The Bengals helmet innovation was great. Things change. But being the first to do something awful does not mean there's value. An NFL team could also be the first to include the NYC Subway map on their pants, put their season schedule on their helmets, make their uniform numbers scratch and sniff, or put small San Jose Sharks-like numbers on their upper chest (just above their big front numbers). Would there be value in being first do do that stuff? Or is it just awful?

Look, something innovative by the Browns does not have to be bad. But it certainly does not have to be good.

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Is the value the altruistic feelings they get about providing the other 31 teams a warning?

I get it...these are case-by-case. The Bengals helmet innovation was great. Things change. But being the first to do something awful does not mean there's value. An NFL team could also be the first to include the NYC Subway map on their pants, put their season schedule on their helmets, make their uniform numbers scratch and sniff, or put small San Jose Sharks-like numbers on their upper chest (just above their big front numbers). Would there be value in being first do do that stuff? Or is it just awful?

Look, something innovative by the Browns does not have to be bad. But it certainly does not have to be good.

Yes, I think there is value in being the first one there... good or bad. I am positive there is a large, substantial portion of football fans, or Jaguar fans that like the helmet and think its awesome.

There is a highschool, somewhere in middle America, that saw those helmets and demanded they get those the following year. At the very worst, the Jaguars got press and notoriety that they otherwise would never have gotten.

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Uhhh just to clarify, Nike has adjusted their templates to fit the teams design. See: AZ Cardinals and Denver Broncos.

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Uhhh just to clarify, Nike has adjusted their templates to fit the teams design. See: AZ Cardinals and Denver Broncos.

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Why does Nike have to change the shade of orange? There's nothing wrong with it don't touch it.

Who said it is Nike that is changing it?

My guess is he doesn't have much attachment to Browns tradition. Good, bad, or otherwise, Haslem knows a new Browns look is guaranteed to sell a bunch of new merchandise. Taking my bias out of the equation, I think it's a smart business move.

It's a good move right up until the moment the people of Cleveland rise as one and lynch him. LOL

I don't think Nike would even butcher one of the more legendary franchises.

They :censored:ed up the Pittsburgh Steelers, merely by changing the jersey font. What makes you think they won't :censored: up the Browns just as easily?

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It looks like I'm in the minority, but I prefer the Colts' striping template over the LSU/Ole Miss. To me, there just isn't enough room on a modern template for the full wraparound stripe, so when it is put there, it just looks cramped and forced. I think the Colts' stripes could definitely be elongated, but they look much better because they look natural in the template.

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didn't the Panthers pull off a pretty good wrap-around stripe (albeit tapered) pretty recently? Would the Colts or Jets really look that much different with tapered striping?

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didn't the Panthers pull off a pretty good wrap-around stripe (albeit tapered) pretty recently? Would the Colts or Jets really look that much different with tapered striping?

hi-res-181799789-cam-newton-of-the-carol

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And good on them for it.

When your market position is as strong as the NFL's, you certainly can command custom manufacturing, "efficiency" be damned.

Good for teams who say "your off-the-shelf simply isn't good enough for us." Nike needs them far more than they need Nike, and a few teams recognize it.

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Speaking of that, how have the Eagles sweat boxes looked? I guess they've worn green twice since they finally got them. I didn't notice it as bad as the Jets, but I was more focused on the flattness of the material than looking at the boxes.

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Speaking of that, how have the Eagles sweat boxes looked? I guess they've worn green twice since they finally got them. I didn't notice it as bad as the Jets, but I was more focused on the flattness of the material than looking at the boxes.

The sweatboxes look just as terrible on the new template than on the previous Nike template:

111014-barwin-newton-600.jpg

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didn't the Panthers pull off a pretty good wrap-around stripe (albeit tapered) pretty recently? Would the Colts or Jets really look that much different with tapered striping?

hi-res-181799789-cam-newton-of-the-carol

yeah the Colts and Jets could make this happen, they just choose not to.

Stop telling me it can't happen on a modern template because it can. Even the tighter cuts on Panthers like Jonathan Stewart would look better on the Jets and Colts.

Here's a picture of him playing the Jets so you can see the improvement.

120904_stewart_inside.jpg

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Nike could make the stripes wrap around. If you look at the pants stripes, they are on mesh. Nike could simply use the LSU/Ole Miss style stripes, then connect the mesh to those and put the striping on the mesh and wrap it around to the back.

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