New United Kingdom flag proposals

[Dexter Morgan]

Northern Ireland is a waste of space

GFY

[JQK]

England Get Out Of Ireland.

They need to just go back to the Cross of St. George and dissolve the United Kingdom as a political entity.

[marble21]

[Davidson]

England Get Out Of Ireland.

They need to just go back to the Cross of St. George and dissolve the United Kingdom as a political entity.

Well, as with most things it isn't quite as simple as that. The reason there has been war in Northern Ireland is less to do with an indigenous population revolting against an occupying nation (although that did also happen) but more about Catholic republicans fighting with the Unionist Protestant population. The Unionists (the union being that which they wish to retain with the United Kingdom as opposed to reunification of Ireland) tended predominantly to be settlers from Scotland as well as Northern England.

Im sure if you asked most British people from the bigger island, they couldn't care less whether or not N. Ireland remained in the Union. But for the small population of NI who see themselves as British, the idea of being fallen upon by a returning Republican (catholic majority) government is pretty terrifying.

Its easy to look at the results of colonialism and find them questionable. Given that everyone who created these situations is dead and the 'English' you think should 'get out of Ireland' have been there for many generations, I think its a little simplistic and not really a solution. Perhaps all the 'English' should also 'get out of' America?

It will be interesting to see how the Scottish referendum will vote. Despite being half Scots (and half Irish), Im a bit ambivalent.

[IceCap]

England Get Out Of Ireland.

Nah. As Davidson explained the Protestants of Northern Ireland wish to remain politically unified with the UK. Is what they want irrelevant? Are their opinions as Irish citizens not valid? You have two Irish populations. One that wishes to remain within the UK, won that has embraced independence. Why force one type of government on the population that does not desire it, when a partition allows both sides a land to call their own?

They need to just go back to the Cross of St. George and dissolve the United Kingdom as a political entity.

Northern Ireland's Protestant population would never agree to leaving, and the referendum in Scotland actually looks like it's going to fail if the polling numbers are any indication. So for all your talk about popular sovereignty (England Get Out Of Ireland) a breakup of the UK doesn't seem to be the preference of the majority of the UK's population. It's more likely the preference of someone who just doesn't like the British

EDIT- On that last bit, I have as much of a reason to dislike the Germans as you do the British (either not a very good reason or a very good reason, depending on one's perspective) but you don't see me angling for the breakup of the Federal Republic of Germany. Even though that has more historical precedent then a dissolved UK.

[rams80]

Scotland can get their blue back when they pay their portion of the British national debt.

[JQK]

England Get Out Of Ireland.

Nah. As Davidson explained the Protestants of Northern Ireland wish to remain politically unified with the UK. Is what they want irrelevant? Are their opinions as Irish citizens not valid? You have two Irish populations. One that wishes to remain within the UK, won that has embraced independence. Why force one type of government on the population that does not desire it, when a partition allows both sides a land to call their own?

Crimea.

[IceCap]

England Get Out Of Ireland.

Nah. As Davidson explained the Protestants of Northern Ireland wish to remain politically unified with the UK. Is what they want irrelevant? Are their opinions as Irish citizens not valid? You have two Irish populations. One that wishes to remain within the UK, won that has embraced independence. Why force one type of government on the population that does not desire it, when a partition allows both sides a land to call their own?

Crimea.

I'd be in favour of a Crimean union with Russia if a referendum was arrived at peacefully. My opposition to Russia's presence there is the unilateral invasion. If you're trying to compare England's invasion of Ireland with the Russian invasion of Crimea, well you're out of your league. Comparing something that happened in the 1530s (though you could easily push that date further back) with something that occurred in the year 2014? That's a weak, overly simplistic argument. The Anglophobia is palatable.

Keep moving the discussion's goalposts though, Kinger! I see you've already abandoned the "dissolve the UK even though the people there don't want to do that!" sentiment.

Scotland can get their blue back when they pay their portion of the British national debt.

Yeah. The Scottish independence movement is starting to remind me of the Quebec independence movement in the worst ways. They don't want to have to pay their portion of the national debt, they want immediate EU membership (which the EU has said isn't going to happen) and they want to continue using the British pound as currency.

If you want to be an independent country then campaign to be an independent country. If there are benefits to being part of the UK that you would rather hold onto after independence then perhaps independence isn't that great of an idea.

[Davidson]

England Get Out Of Ireland.

Nah. As Davidson explained the Protestants of Northern Ireland wish to remain politically unified with the UK. Is what they want irrelevant? Are their opinions as Irish citizens not valid? You have two Irish populations. One that wishes to remain within the UK, won that has embraced independence. Why force one type of government on the population that does not desire it, when a partition allows both sides a land to call their own?

Crimea.

I'd be in favour of a Crimean union with Russia if a referendum was arrived at peacefully. My opposition to Russia's presence there is the unilateral invasion. If you're trying to compare England's invasion of Ireland with the Russian invasion of Crimea, well you're out of your league. Comparing something that happened in the 1530s (though you could easily push that date further back) with something that occurred in the year 2014? That's a weak, overly simplistic argument. The Anglophobia is palatable.

Keep moving the discussion's goalposts though, Kinger! I see you've already abandoned the "dissolve the UK even though the people there don't want to do that!" sentiment.

Scotland can get their blue back when they pay their portion of the British national debt.

Yeah. The Scottish independence movement is starting to remind me of the Quebec independence movement in the worst ways. They don't want to have to pay their portion of the national debt, they want immediate EU membership (which the EU has said isn't going to happen) and they want to continue using the British pound as currency.

If you want to be an independent country then campaign to be an independent country. If there are benefits to being part of the UK that you would rather hold onto after independence then perhaps independence isn't that great of an idea.

Interesting point about Quebec, I don't know too much about that one. I think the main thrust of the Scottish push is based on the North Sea gas they feel will be there's. But all the elements you mentioned should inform the decision. What I dislike about what the SNP is saying about the pound and the debt is that the scots should vote 'yes' now and all that can be negotiated later. It's a stupid position to take as it just means the whole endeavour is based on articles of faith and well meaning people are unable to make an informed decision.

[Captain Tsubasa]

If Scotland does separate, I would take off the St. Andrew's cross, but keep the blue background. It still looks like the Union Jack, it's distinct from the pre 1801 flag, and it still has that nod to history without directly including Scotland. Tell Wales to adopt a solid blue flag if they want to be on the UK flag.

Nah, it's way easier to come up with a solid justification for the blue background: Of course it symbolicly embraces the European Union!!!

[Primal]

If Scotland does separate, I would take off the St. Andrew's cross, but keep the blue background. It still looks like the Union Jack, it's distinct from the pre 1801 flag, and it still has that nod to history without directly including Scotland. Tell Wales to adopt a solid blue flag if they want to be on the UK flag.

Nah, it's way easier to come up with a solid justification for the blue background: Of course it symbolicly embraces the European Union!!!

I was going to say "it's surrounded by water"... but your idea sounds much more entertaining

[Davidson]

I was messing around combining the St Patricks, St George and St David's flags. All pretty ugly.

[TorinK92]

Well, what about going to one of the simpler options?

All three flags are represented in there:

The St. Patrick's and St. George's flag are represented there pretty obviously, with the St. George's flag being outlined in white to sort of 'separate' England and North. Ireland on the flag so it represents two different 'countries' and gives the flag some needed separation without it looking too garish.

The flag of St. David is also there with the black background and the gold is moved to a trim around the flag, like how some official American flags have that gold fringe around the flag, so the gold is still in there, but not being front and centre as that would only look too garish.

It's still probably a downgrade from the current flag, but what are you gonna do without blue?

[Davidson]

Well, what about going to one of the simpler options?

All three flags are represented in there:

The St. Patrick's and St. George's flag are represented there pretty obviously, with the St. George's flag being outlined in white to sort of 'separate' England and North. Ireland on the flag so it represents two different 'countries' and gives the flag some needed separation without it looking too garish.

The flag of St. David is also there with the black background and the gold is moved to a trim around the flag, like how some official American flags have that gold fringe around the flag, so the gold is still in there, but not being front and centre as that would only look too garish.

It's still probably a downgrade from the current flag, but what are you gonna do without blue?

I like it, I think you could just drop the gold trim altogether though. looks a bit fiddly.

That is not the flag of the good guys though, is it? Red black and white feels a long way from Red, White and Navy.

[Saint Zephyr III]

Well, what about going to one of the simpler options?

All three flags are represented in there:

The St. Patrick's and St. George's flag are represented there pretty obviously, with the St. George's flag being outlined in white to sort of 'separate' England and North. Ireland on the flag so it represents two different 'countries' and gives the flag some needed separation without it looking too garish.

The flag of St. David is also there with the black background and the gold is moved to a trim around the flag, like how some official American flags have that gold fringe around the flag, so the gold is still in there, but not being front and centre as that would only look too garish.

It's still probably a downgrade from the current flag, but what are you gonna do without blue?

I like it, I think you could just drop the gold trim altogether though. looks a bit fiddly.

That is not the flag of the good guys though, is it? Red black and white feels a long way from Red, White and Navy.

I would think that the UK should avoid a dominant red-black flag...a pinch too close to THIS:

[Jaffa]

Well, what about going to one of the simpler options?

All three flags are represented in there:

The St. Patrick's and St. George's flag are represented there pretty obviously, with the St. George's flag being outlined in white to sort of 'separate' England and North. Ireland on the flag so it represents two different 'countries' and gives the flag some needed separation without it looking too garish.

The flag of St. David is also there with the black background and the gold is moved to a trim around the flag, like how some official American flags have that gold fringe around the flag, so the gold is still in there, but not being front and centre as that would only look too garish.

It's still probably a downgrade from the current flag, but what are you gonna do without blue?

I like it, I think you could just drop the gold trim altogether though. looks a bit fiddly.

That is not the flag of the good guys though, is it? Red black and white feels a long way from Red, White and Navy.

I would think that the UK should avoid a dominant red-black flag...a pinch too close to THIS:

I don't know, Dave the Prime Minister might be more up for that than you imagine...

[TorinK92]

Well, what about going to one of the simpler options?

All three flags are represented in there:

The St. Patrick's and St. George's flag are represented there pretty obviously, with the St. George's flag being outlined in white to sort of 'separate' England and North. Ireland on the flag so it represents two different 'countries' and gives the flag some needed separation without it looking too garish.

The flag of St. David is also there with the black background and the gold is moved to a trim around the flag, like how some official American flags have that gold fringe around the flag, so the gold is still in there, but not being front and centre as that would only look too garish.

It's still probably a downgrade from the current flag, but what are you gonna do without blue?

I like it, I think you could just drop the gold trim altogether though. looks a bit fiddly.

That is not the flag of the good guys though, is it? Red black and white feels a long way from Red, White and Navy.

I would think that the UK should avoid a dominant red-black flag

I don't know, Dave the Prime Minister might be more up for that than you imagine...

I too was messing around with it for a couple minutes:

Obviously not all of these would work, but I was just letting a couple of ideas out. I like the 2nd and 3rd one on the top and the 3rd one on the bottom.

[IceCap]

That is not the flag of the good guys though, is it? Red black and white feels a long way from Red, White and Navy.

Well they could just make this permanent and embrace the darkness

[Waffles]

With Scotland's independence referendum coming up, The Guardian has some of the flag proposals, along with some details on if and how a change would be implemented.

Constitutional experts suggest that the remainder of the UK would not necessarily be required to abandon the current flag, although Lord West, the deputy chairman of the parliamentary flags and heraldry committee, suggested last week that it was "nonsense" to imagine the St Andrew's blue could remain.

[Nyk33]

I was looking for designs that replaced the blue with green (since the Welsh flag uses green) instead of black and I don't really know how I feel about it.

It's definitely not as good as blue.