2014 NFL Season Thread

[rams80]

I wasn't moved on my Tom Brady opinion BTW. He threw two interceptions and needed the dumbest single play call and his defense to bail him out to win his first title in ten years. F*** the patriots.

Yeah, but he did pull off a pretty impressive drive to put his team in the lead.

Yep. Brady solidified his legacy as the greatest of his era.

Agreed. Whether we like it or not, the Brady - Belichick era Patriots are one of the greatest teams of all time. In my opinion, Belichick is the greatest head coach ever. As for Tom Brady, well, I'll never be convinced any QB is as good as Joe Montana but I'm fine with putting Brady in the #2 all-time slot.

That's the thing, though. Brady has benefited greatly quite a bit from playing under Belichick, so who honestly knows? Brady's obviously a great QB with great success... but is he even in the conversation if he gets drafted by some other franchise and never hooks up with Belichick? I don't see it.

That's counter-factual. Maybe Phillip Rivers the undisputed GOAT if Eli doesn't demand to be traded from the Chargers. It's all a lot of guesswork and nothing really substantial.

Brady has the rings and the statistics to solidify his status as the best of his era. His only competition is a guy who got steamrolled by the same defence Brady went toe to toe with. You don't have to like him but Brady ended up on top.

You're fighting a losing battle, Mike. Back when the opinions around here were a little more nuanced, we might have been able to discuss this. These days? Brady is either the GOAT or he's a hack who did nothing but benefit from coaching and a system. There is no in between.

NO that's not it and it's a discredit. Tom Brady is very good, but I don't honestly believe he's the best quarterback of this generation.

Put him on the Bengals and he has 0 rings. It's why the rings argument is stupid.

Exactly. Tom Brady has a ring tonight primarily because Pete Carroll went insane in the last minute of the game and a Patriots defender made a pretty good play.

And then Seattle followed up by just losing what composure they had.

[infrared41]

That's counter-factual. Maybe Phillip Rivers the undisputed GOAT if Eli doesn't demand to be traded from the Chargers. It's all a lot of guesswork and nothing really substantial.

Brady has the rings and the statistics to solidify his status as the best of his era. His only competition is a guy who got steamrolled by the same defence Brady went toe to toe with. You don't have to like him but Brady ended up on top.

You're fighting a losing battle, Mike. Back when the opinions around here were a little more nuanced, we might have been able to discuss this. These days? Brady is either the GOAT or he's a hack who did nothing but benefit from coaching and a system. There is no in between.

NO that's not it and it's a discredit. Tom Brady is very good, but I don't honestly believe he's the best quarterback of this generation.

Put him on the Bengals and he has 0 rings. It's why the rings argument is stupid.

Ok, then who is? We can play hypotheticals all day long. if Belichick stays in Cleveland and the Browns don't move, does that mean Cleveland is celebrating their 4th SB win tonight? To quote the great prophet Madden, at some point we just have to decide someone is the best. In my book, Brady is the best of his era. All the hypotheticals you can throw at me won't change my opinion on the matter.

[Sport]

That's counter-factual. Maybe Phillip Rivers the undisputed GOAT if Eli doesn't demand to be traded from the Chargers. It's all a lot of guesswork and nothing really substantial.

Brady has the rings and the statistics to solidify his status as the best of his era. His only competition is a guy who got steamrolled by the same defence Brady went toe to toe with. You don't have to like him but Brady ended up on top.

You're fighting a losing battle, Mike. Back when the opinions around here were a little more nuanced, we might have been able to discuss this. These days? Brady is either the GOAT or he's a hack who did nothing but benefit from coaching and a system. There is no in between.

NO that's not it and it's a discredit. Tom Brady is very good, but I don't honestly believe he's the best quarterback of this generation.

Put him on the Bengals and he has 0 rings. It's why the rings argument is stupid.

Ok, then who is? We can play hypotheticals all day long. if Belichick stays in Cleveland and the Browns don't move, does that mean Cleveland is celebrating their 4th SB win tonight? To quote the great prophet Madden, at some point we just have to decide someone is the best. In my book, Brady is the best of his era. All the hypotheticals you can throw at me won't change my opinion on the matter.

Peyton Manning.

[WSU151]

The funny thing is, if the Seahawks score on that last pass, everyone's commending Carroll for outcoaching Belichick at the most critical point of the game.

[NJTank]

The only reason Tom Brady is in the debate of best of this generation is the fact Peyton Manning chokes in the playoffs. Manning is the better QB overall but those rings give Brady a right for the argument.

Best QB in Super Bowl

Brady is not better than Starr, Staubach, Bradshaw, Montana, Elway or Aikman.

[FGM13]

That's counter-factual. Maybe Phillip Rivers the undisputed GOAT if Eli doesn't demand to be traded from the Chargers. It's all a lot of guesswork and nothing really substantial.

Brady has the rings and the statistics to solidify his status as the best of his era. His only competition is a guy who got steamrolled by the same defence Brady went toe to toe with. You don't have to like him but Brady ended up on top.

You're fighting a losing battle, Mike. Back when the opinions around here were a little more nuanced, we might have been able to discuss this. These days? Brady is either the GOAT or he's a hack who did nothing but benefit from coaching and a system. There is no in between.

NO that's not it and it's a discredit. Tom Brady is very good, but I don't honestly believe he's the best quarterback of this generation.

Put him on the Bengals and he has 0 rings. It's why the rings argument is stupid.

Ok, then who is? We can play hypotheticals all day long. if Belichick stays in Cleveland and the Browns don't move, does that mean Cleveland is celebrating their 4th SB win tonight? To quote the great prophet Madden, at some point we just have to decide someone is the best. In my book, Brady is the best of his era. All the hypotheticals you can throw at me won't change my opinion on the matter.

Peyton Manning.

Put Manning on the Bengals, he has no rings.

[WSU151]

That's counter-factual. Maybe Phillip Rivers the undisputed GOAT if Eli doesn't demand to be traded from the Chargers. It's all a lot of guesswork and nothing really substantial.

Brady has the rings and the statistics to solidify his status as the best of his era. His only competition is a guy who got steamrolled by the same defence Brady went toe to toe with. You don't have to like him but Brady ended up on top.

You're fighting a losing battle, Mike. Back when the opinions around here were a little more nuanced, we might have been able to discuss this. These days? Brady is either the GOAT or he's a hack who did nothing but benefit from coaching and a system. There is no in between.

NO that's not it and it's a discredit. Tom Brady is very good, but I don't honestly believe he's the best quarterback of this generation.

Put him on the Bengals and he has 0 rings. It's why the rings argument is stupid.

Ok, then who is? We can play hypotheticals all day long. if Belichick stays in Cleveland and the Browns don't move, does that mean Cleveland is celebrating their 4th SB win tonight? To quote the great prophet Madden, at some point we just have to decide someone is the best. In my book, Brady is the best of his era. All the hypotheticals you can throw at me won't change my opinion on the matter.

Peyton Manning.

Peyton's a phenomenal passer. But he struggles against good teams in the playoffs. How many one-and-done playoff seasons for Peyton? Nine? 9?

[Seadragon76]

The funny thing is, if the Seahawks score on that last pass, everyone's commending Carroll for outcoaching Belichick at the most critical point of the game.

Agreed. Instead, it's going to be scrutinized for weeks now.

*sigh* Oh well, At least Seattle won a Super Bowl. I can at least die happy knowing that my loyalty towards the Seahawks wasn't in vain. Hell, they can go 0-16 next year and I'll still be happy.

[PSUcelticsWON95]

I don't know why people are saying the Patriots didn't win this game themselves. Had they lost the game, it would have been their fault. Those 2 interceptions were killer and Seattle did a good job capitalizing. The Patriots outplayed the Seahawks, in my opinion. I feel that the better team won.

[Kramerica Industries]

Relax, I wasn't referring to you or your post. My point was that 90% of the posts around here seem to go to the extreme (see my reply to Kramerica calling us enormously stupid for even having this discussion.)

Maybe I should've been more clear, who knows, but I was referring to the broad discussing of "all-time great QB rankings", not this specific conversation, mostly because I haven't been following it very closely. The hand-wringing is always the same, and here we are now discussing whether a game where Tom Brady leading his team from two scores down against the "vaunted" LOB defense in the 4th quarter actually did anything to change his purported legacy or not.

I just hate this conversation topic because I would give my left nut to have had a QB half as good as Tom Brady in Tampa Bay for the past 15 years. Ditto for Peyton Manning. Or ditto for anyone who wasn't the motley crew of QB's the Bucs have had in that time frame.

[Brass]

Please dont compare Tom Brady to Joe Montana its like comparing Nickleback to the :censored:ing Beatles

When the 49ers won Super Bowl XIX

They played LT's Giants in the Divisional Round

The 1985 Bears in the Championship Ganme

Then they beat the the 14-2 Dan Marino best season ever for a QB in the Super Bowl

The Pats would lose to each of those teams by 40

Oh, please. The Patriots had solid defenses for their first three championships and that's what usually wins you the big one. You could not be any more butt hurt at this situation. Comparing Joe Montana and Tom Brady is a legitimate argument. If you can't see the similarities in the two, then you are a complete, blind fool.

[Sport]

That's counter-factual. Maybe Phillip Rivers the undisputed GOAT if Eli doesn't demand to be traded from the Chargers. It's all a lot of guesswork and nothing really substantial.

Brady has the rings and the statistics to solidify his status as the best of his era. His only competition is a guy who got steamrolled by the same defence Brady went toe to toe with. You don't have to like him but Brady ended up on top.

You're fighting a losing battle, Mike. Back when the opinions around here were a little more nuanced, we might have been able to discuss this. These days? Brady is either the GOAT or he's a hack who did nothing but benefit from coaching and a system. There is no in between.

NO that's not it and it's a discredit. Tom Brady is very good, but I don't honestly believe he's the best quarterback of this generation.

Put him on the Bengals and he has 0 rings. It's why the rings argument is stupid.

Ok, then who is? We can play hypotheticals all day long. if Belichick stays in Cleveland and the Browns don't move, does that mean Cleveland is celebrating their 4th SB win tonight? To quote the great prophet Madden, at some point we just have to decide someone is the best. In my book, Brady is the best of his era. All the hypotheticals you can throw at me won't change my opinion on the matter.

Peyton Manning.

Put Manning on the Bengals, he has no rings.

Probably not, which is why the rings argument is stupid.

[BBTV]

That's how sports work. If they don't get the TD with 6 sec left in first half, Carrol is an idiot. You can only evaluate what actually happened. It's fun to ponder "what if", but when actually judging or ranking, only facts should count.

[IceCap]

That's counter-factual. Maybe Phillip Rivers the undisputed GOAT if Eli doesn't demand to be traded from the Chargers. It's all a lot of guesswork and nothing really substantial.

Brady has the rings and the statistics to solidify his status as the best of his era. His only competition is a guy who got steamrolled by the same defence Brady went toe to toe with. You don't have to like him but Brady ended up on top.

You're fighting a losing battle, Mike. Back when the opinions around here were a little more nuanced, we might have been able to discuss this. These days? Brady is either the GOAT or he's a hack who did nothing but benefit from coaching and a system. There is no in between.

NO that's not it and it's a discredit. Tom Brady is very good, but I don't honestly believe he's the best quarterback of this generation.

Put him on the Bengals and he has 0 rings. It's why the rings argument is stupid.

Ok, then who is? We can play hypotheticals all day long. if Belichick stays in Cleveland and the Browns don't move, does that mean Cleveland is celebrating their 4th SB win tonight? To quote the great prophet Madden, at some point we just have to decide someone is the best. In my book, Brady is the best of his era. All the hypotheticals you can throw at me won't change my opinion on the matter.

Peyton Manning.

The guy who got steamrolled by the same all time great defence that Brady just went toe-to-toe with? Manning put up the gaudier numbers, but Brady won when it mattered. No QB who goes one and done nine times is best QB of an era. Much less of all time.

[infrared41]

That's counter-factual. Maybe Phillip Rivers the undisputed GOAT if Eli doesn't demand to be traded from the Chargers. It's all a lot of guesswork and nothing really substantial.

Brady has the rings and the statistics to solidify his status as the best of his era. His only competition is a guy who got steamrolled by the same defence Brady went toe to toe with. You don't have to like him but Brady ended up on top.

You're fighting a losing battle, Mike. Back when the opinions around here were a little more nuanced, we might have been able to discuss this. These days? Brady is either the GOAT or he's a hack who did nothing but benefit from coaching and a system. There is no in between.

NO that's not it and it's a discredit. Tom Brady is very good, but I don't honestly believe he's the best quarterback of this generation.

Put him on the Bengals and he has 0 rings. It's why the rings argument is stupid.

Ok, then who is? We can play hypotheticals all day long. if Belichick stays in Cleveland and the Browns don't move, does that mean Cleveland is celebrating their 4th SB win tonight? To quote the great prophet Madden, at some point we just have to decide someone is the best. In my book, Brady is the best of his era. All the hypotheticals you can throw at me won't change my opinion on the matter.

Peyton Manning.

Why? Because he's managed to choke with two different teams? Just kidding...mostly. Manning has trouble in cold weather, bad weather, and sometimes just in general. My argument for Brady over Manning comes down to who I have more faith in with the game on the line. In my opinion, Manning is shaky in the "clutch" more often than Brady is. Rings have nothing to do with my opinion on that. Having the benefit of being old enough to have seen all four of them play, Manning is Marino to Brady's Montana.

[DarkJourney]

Tom Brady is great in his era. Joe Montana was great in his era.

[CS85]

1985 BEARS, THAT'S ALL I'VE GOT TO SAY

[OnWis97]

I don't think anyone is criticizing Brady for playing for the greatest coach ever and in a great system. That's not the point. The point is that winning championships is, to a large degree about circumstance. Therefore playing in six Super Bowls and winning four is not a "case closed" argument. I don't think we are at "'Brady is the G.O.A.T' vs. 'Brady is horrible'". We are at a discussion on where this ranks Brady. Ultimately, it's a funny game. Without the Tyree catch, the Brady crowd is even louder. Without the Wisconsin QB blunder (Bevel's playcall and Wilson's pass), then he's 3-3 and that talk is tempered.

Good for Brady. Teams don't sustain the long-term relevance that the Pats have without a great QB. And he is. I just don't know that this makes him the best.

[Xist2inspire]

Can we just leave it at this?

Peyton Manning = Most Talented QB of this generation

Tom Brady = Most successful QB of this generation

Because "Greatest _____" really all comes down to what you perceive "great" to be - is it mostly about skill, or success?

[CS85]

The internet never lacks in haste.

Edit: Also there's no question, NONE, that Peyton Manning has sold more pizzas than any quarterback in football history.