NatsFan2004

At best, this set is weak and lifeless.  At worst, it's sloppily executed.  There's nothing to be proud of here, I'm not sure why Charlotte Athletics would be crowing about this.

Love love LOVE this new Frisco set. Putting Teddy in there is great IMO. Although the bat-swinging logo reminds me of this:

I was thinking along the lines of cornering the Missouri market since they didn't add Mizzou. Also, the Kansas basketball team has such a national presence, that it could make up for the lack of State population.

Yeah, I could see that...but first, adding Kansas doesn't allow the B16 to add the BTN to Missouri cable/satellite subscribers at the higher in-state rate. So any gains there are mitigated. Kansas basketball's renown would be a good addition to bolster the B16's hoops side, but then none of these changes in the college landscape are really about basketball. It's football and the TV cash that comes with it that is driving the B16 here.

Something that I think may be understated it North Carolina's football program is constantly under investigations or subject to sanctions. With Penn State and Ohio State already in trouble with the NCAA, would they want to add another program that is littered with questions?

True, and that may be why we have heard GT over UNC to the B16 lately. On the other hand...a.) does the conference really care all that much about what the NCAA thinks of them, and b.) in the long-run, wouldn't UNC's cache and prestige mean much more to the conference than adding anyone else?

Anyway, when it comes to the B16 TEN, has is pretty much been stated or determined that the they are strictly expandind down the east coast? I am assuming that Virginia is a lock at this point, as is Virginia Tech to the SEC. But is it a foregone conclusion that #16 is either Georgia Tech or North Carolina? I feel like Kansas would make more sense, not in terms of households = dollars, but its contiguious, its a member of the AAU, the basketball following speaks for itself, and it has 50,000+ football stadium.

I'm not sure what Kansas gains the Big Ten in the area that matters most, which is TV markets and overall state population. Here's a quick thumbnail sketch of what the B16 would get if they added each of the rumored schools:

Virginia - share of DC TV market (#9 TV market), Norfolk/Virginia Beach (#43), Richmond (#58) | Population: 8.1 million

UNC- Charlotte (#24), Raleigh/Durham (#27) | Population: 9.7 million

Georgia Tech - Atlanta (#8), Savannah (#96) | Population: 9.8 million

Kansas - share of KC TV market (#31), Wichita (#69) | Population: 2.9 million

By those metrics alone, any of the 3 ACC schools would be a better 'get' than Kansas.

Also, Notre Dame. I don't want them in the Big Ten-they wreck every league they are in solely because they are hellbent on looking out for themselves alone; their loyalties within the league would always be suspect; and they make unreasonable demands that would instantly cause the league to fly apart.

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner.

Hint: In this modern college landscape, every school is looking out for themselves. No one wants to be left behind in the also-ran conferences that will exist when the dust settles. Notre Dame is no different than any other school that's not tied down in this regard.

ESPN reporting the ACC has voted to accept Louisville beginning in 2014

UNC AD: School wants to stay in the ACC "for another 60 years at least"

UVA AD: "We firmly stand behind the Atlantic Coast Conference"

Will the big 12 grab Houston like they did tcu from the huge east/America??! It would be only to reestablish south Texas and keep up with super conferencing

Only if they suffer more defections. Another thought, why isn't the ACC going after West Virginia. Is WV locked in some kind of contract?

The ACC rejected WVU after the SEC did.

Yeah but I think things have changed. I think the ACC would be a lot more receptive to adding them now since they lost Maryland and the loss of Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina, NC State are all very real possibilities. If the ACC could grab Louisville to replace Maryland and then extend an invite to Cincinatti, they could make a move back at West Virginia say hey, we are the first real super conference. Even if we lose 1 or 2 members, we'll still have more or equal members than the rest of the conferences.

Morgantown is a very small TV market. Even if you expand WVU's "market" to the entire state of WV and part of southeast PA (a generous assumption), you're not picking up that many TV households. And we know that the $ that comes from those is what this whole realignment situation is all about. Louisville, Cincinnati or UConn would all be better choices.

Edit: Navy to the ACC is a hot rumor today. Obviously a Notre Dame push. If it is true, that is.

I'd consider adding Army too. Adding the east coast service academies would keep some of the "prestige" associated with the top-level academic institutions in the ACC, plus would give a presence (though muted) in both the NYC and Washington/Baltimore area markets. And of course, Army-Navy would be a conference game, adding more meaning to an already meaningful game.

Assuming you added Army/Navy and UConn/Louisville:

Army

Boston College

UConn/Louisville

Clemson

Florida State

NC State

Syracuse

Wake Forest

Duke

Georgia Tech

Miami

Navy

North Carolina

Pittsburgh

Virginia

Virginia Tech

* Plus Notre Dame for all other sports than football.

That's not half-bad, honestly. The question is, would it allow them to compete with the B1G and Big 12 when all is said and done?

Tulane to the Big East. ECU for football only.

Seems like the Big East's desperation to stay afloat is continuing. Maybe with the knowledge that they're going to lose 1-2 more schools in the coming days...?

ECU is kind of a "get", but Tulane? Really?

I see Texas as the next domino to fall. Texas and another solid academic school like Kansas would give the Big Ten 16 teams and plunge realignemnt into chaos for one final time. I just don't see Virginia and UNC going to the Big Ten. No huge TV market!

It could be argued that by taking UNC and UVA, you bracket the DC market as well as Raleigh Durham (#27 US market), Norfolk/Virginia Beach (#43) and Richmond (#58) and lock them all down as Big Ten territory all in one fell swoop. Plus by bringing UNC on, you get the benefit of boosting the conference's basketball cachet.

I know it's just a blog, but there is an interesting analysis of the ACC's members and how they're likely to play this situation here:

http://fromoldvirgin...rmy-waters.html

I can't say I disagree with his analysis, in general.

There is a lot to be disagreed with when it comes to his analysis. He makes some decent points, nothing new or profound though. His default answer is either BIG 10 or SEC. My only issue is that he completely disregaurds the possibility of an Eastern/Atlantic Coast conference surviving. It is very possibly that the ACC and Big East can work together and form a super conference.

Well, I think you missed his point. He was coming from the perspective of which schools are going to be the lynchpins in keeping the ACC together, and looking at what their other options are.

I think the idea of a ACC/Big East "super conference" just plain nutty. Sure it'd have some excellent basketball, but if the football side still trails the other super conferences, you're going to have schools like FSU, VT and NC State looking for a better deal and you're right back where you started. Because at the end of the day, the revenue that comes from football is what this is all about. Also, the whole "conference of convenience" thing hasn't exactly worked out for the Big East - in fact, it's been an unmitigated disaster. Why should a ACC/Big East merger be any different?

I'm hoping that the ACC survives. Honestly, as a UVA fan, I am. But here's the thing...if VT and NCSU get serious invites from the SEC and UVA and, say, UNC get the chance to jump to the Big Ten... the writing is going to be on the wall. At that point, every school in the ACC is going to be looking for a lifeboat to escape the sinking ship.

I know it's just a blog, but there is an interesting analysis of the ACC's members and how they're likely to play this situation here:

http://fromoldvirginia.blogspot.com/2012/11/stormy-waters.html

I can't say I disagree with his analysis, in general.

Seems to me the winning strategy for the ACC would be to lock down Notre Dame for football and add UConn and Louisville.

I don't think so. You don't cede television rights in the modern era as that's where a large chunk of your revenue comes from.

1.) There's precedent in the Washington/Baltimore situation. It's been done before.

2.) New York might be the one market where even a 40% stake in TV rights would be worth more than a 100% stake in TV rights elsewhere.

3.) If it's the only way to get a third team in the New York market and MLB/Yankees/Mets want it to happen (ie, it's profitable for all parties), they'll likely find a way to make it happen.

Nevermind that it's in the Mets and Yankees territory and they'd never allow it... Enjoy the Cyclones because it's the only team Brooklyn is going to be getting.

With money, anything is possible. Suppose a new team in Brooklyn would cede a majority of broadcast rights to the Mets/Yankees (a la MASN in Washington/Baltimore). This would allow the existing teams to either make their current broadcast deals more valuable (YES/SNY) or create a new sports network to broadcast the Brooklyn team's games (from which they would receive the majority of the proceeds).

That's not to say it will happen, merely that it's possible. IMO, more possible than seeing an MLB team in one of the half-dozen small-time markets that keep getting mentioned.

I know the wheels started in motion for the Expos' demise around 2001 or so (if not with the 94 strike), but do you think Bud regrets pushing the Expos to Washington now?

Not in the slightest.

MLB got a team in a major American market with disposable dollars, extorted the DC government out of a $600 million showpiece ballpark and kept Congress at bay all in one fell swoop.

You have to remember how bad things got in Montreal and how unwilling the provincial government AND local businessmen were to support the Expos (or even the general concept of Montreal baseball). This is precisely how Jeffrey Loria got his dirty paws on the franchise in the first place...NO ONE in Montreal was willing to step up to save the thing.

Also recall that Stade Olympique was (and is) like playing baseball in a giant cave - and this was not going to change because when push came to shove, no one wanted to build a new ballpark.

Given all that, just about ANYTHING would have been an improvement over Montreal. The fact that MLB got all of the goodies out of DC in the process was just gravy.

I do hope Montreal gets back in the baseball game, but it would have to do quite a bit to convince anyone who was paying attention to the Expos fiasco that Montreal can support a professional team - including building a new, modern outdoor facility. I've always advocated that they should go after a AAA team, build a park that can be expanded to MLB size at a later date, and develop the fan/corporate support necessary to take that next step up at the appropriate time. Either way, I hope that they can get baseball back, but I won't hold my breath.

Where's TCU in all of this?

Good point. Maybe TCU would stay in the new Big USA, but I suspect they'd jump to the Big XII and either Memphis or Southern Miss would stay in B*USA. No idea how you could set up divisions that would make sense that way, though.

A C-USA title game will never be played in JAX. Nobody wants to go there and they could never sell it out. When they palyed the title game in a more desirable city to visit (Orlando), they could only get 52,000 there and that was when UCF was in the game. It would look worse then when ACC title games there. It will be on-campus.

Good points overall. You're probably right, it'd probably continue to be a campus affair.

The way the tea leaves are reading now, it appears that we'll be left with an 8-school Big XII and a 14-school SEC (as well as the Pac-12 and B1G Ten staying with what they've got).

The possible C*USA-Big East merger is an interesting possibility, but IMO not all the schools in C*USA will stay there, especially if they have a chance to jump to a Big XII Conference that almost certainly will be actively seeking members. Imagine the following:

Big XII Conference

North Division

Iowa State

Kansas

Kansas State

Memphis

Oklahoma

Oklahoma State

South Division

Baylor

Houston

SMU

Southern Miss

Texas

Texas Tech

Championship Game: Cowboys Stadium - Arlington, TX

Big USA Conference

North Division

Cincinnati

Connecticut

East Carolina

Louisville

Marshall

Rutgers

West Virginia

South Division

Central Florida

Rice

South Florida

Tulane

Tulsa

UAB

UTEP

Championship Game: EverBank Field - Jacksonville, FL

Beebe's out, Big 12 may yet survive:

http://tinyurl.com/BeebeOutBig12

Basketball isn't COMPLETELY irrelevant... and neither is Academics to a couple of the conferences. But they are about as close to completely irrelevant as something could possibly be.

Not true on either point in certain cases. While football controls the discussion in college athletics, men's basketball and academics both are a decent part of it for certain conferences (ACC for both, Big Ten for academics only, etc).

All good points. OTOH, FBS would give ODU a chance to play in a serious bowl game, which can help with recruiting as well as the school's national profile (both athletically and academically). The only way for schools like ODU to continue growing is to take the step to the next level - if they're ready to cover the increased costs involved.

Yes! Yes! Think of the prestige that comes from losing a million dollars playing in front of 10,000 shivering people in the MagicJack Who Gives A Bowl in Random Southern Crumbling Stadiumsburg, USA.

Playing in the FCS National Championship game is much better?

FBS is always better than FCS, even if you have to deal with playing in the Champs Sports Bowl or whatever for a decade or more.

What I mean by national profile is this: Virtually no one outside of the east coast knows what or where ODU is currently. Playing at the FBS level could put the school on national TV, giving the school a chance to make a name of itself through advertising both its athletics and academics. It'd let people all across the country know who they are. This is the reason why some FCS schools are hot to trot to make it to the FBS level (ie, Charlotte, Georgia State, UTSA, etc.).

I think ODU would need more seating capacity, if I'm not mistaken. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Probably so, but that could easily be accomplished by adding on to the north end zone bleachers. Further expansion could be accomplished by building decks over the current (historic) east and west stands.

I believe ODU made their football team with the intent to play in the CAA for the foreseeable future. ODU has big rivalries in-state with JMU and W&M which would be lost with a unilateral move to FBS. Also the non-AQ FBS options aren't particularly attractive to ODU right now. C-USA would be a lateral move in basketball and the travel costs would be a huge drawback.

All good points. OTOH, FBS would give ODU a chance to play in a serious bowl game, which can help with recruiting as well as the school's national profile (both athletically and academically). The only way for schools like ODU to continue growing is to take the step to the next level - if they're ready to cover the increased costs involved.

UNC-Charlotte, on the other hand, has made it clear they are going all-in with their bid to get into FBS. I think they're aiming to join C-USA to give East Carolina a travel partner and a conference rivalry the Pirates currently lack.

Could be, but remember that Charlotte isn't going to start playing until 2013 and even then they're only going to be at the FCS level. There's no specific date at which they'll move up to FBS and their stadium will only hold about 15,000 in the short term. It may be 5-7 years from now before they actually take the next step.

SEC denies that Mizzou has been invited to the conference:

http://espn.go.com/blog/sec/post?id=28515

At a glance, Robins Stadium seems to be somewhat difficult to expand to 20,000+ to qualify for FBS football. The stadium is boxed-in by a road on one side of the field and by a building/tennis courts on the other side. Not saying it couldn't be done, but it might be better to relinquish the stadium back to the soccer/lacrosse/track programs and build a new facility elsewhere if they are looking at joining the Big East for football.

Good luck with that. They just built Robins Stadium two years ago.

Very true.

I think JMU or ODU would be more likely to move up to the FBS level, in all honesty. Both have facilities that would qualify. The question is whether there is the will at either school to compete at that level.