no97

So how about this scenario - I know that I've posted about the guy here who got prison time for selling counterfeit jerseys. I just found out that they are now selling a group of those at a local resale shop (no idea of the price, but I think I'll stop to check it out on Monday). Interesting development that I'll have to check out...

Whoops, worded that incorrectly there. My mistake I had a couple more windows open, and had to re-read what had gotten posted, anywho...

Actually the Aeros were extremely well-supported when they were in Houston, more so than the Rockets, though the Rockets took a long time to get good. Even with their NBA Finals run in 1981, fans didn't start coming until the Hakeem and Ralph era of the mid-1980's. One of the main reasons for the Aeros not merging with the NHL which would later lead to the Molson Boycott by the Canadian cities like Edmonton, Winnipeg, and Quebec that were trying to get into the league, was the initial merger agreement in 1977. As a result, during the merger discussions it was revealed that those three cities would be included, as would other hockey teams, instead of an earlier proposal that could've guaranteed those three cities, as well as Cincinnati, Hartford, and Houston all a spot at the table. Basically it was proposal initially made by then-commissioner Ziegler, and later stated by Cincinnati Stingers owner Bill DeWitt Jr. When Harold Ballard and some of the other owners he was close with, voted down that proposal, which would be a key in triggering the boycott, some the folks with both leagues with detailed information of the negotiations told the Aeros owner Kenneth Schnitzer the final team would be the New England/Hartford Whalers instead of the club in Houston, he basically told both leagues to go themselves and soon attendance plummeted with this news and he closed up shop the following year. He also tried to ask that the Aeros be put in as a pure expansion franchise or to relocate another failing club to Houston to replace the WHA Houston Aeros, but once again the NHL refused.

I think you misunderstood my point. I'm not debating pro hockey's viability in Houston in the past. I'm debating its viability in the present. The Aeros are long gone. Any NHL team in Houston, even if they use the Aeros name, will have to start from scratch. They'd have to compete with the Rockets for fans, ticket sales, merchandise sales, tv ratings, and local corporate dollars. The Rockets, being the more entrenched of the two teams, would have a marked advantage in all of these areas.

Um, what? I mean, I know what you're getting at (the loss of the WHA Aeros) but it's not like there isn't a current team that's top-10 in the AHL in attendance named Aeros playing an an NHL-ready rink right now (Toyota Center opened in 2003 with 17,000 seats for hockey). The rest of your premise is correct - that they'll have to battle with the Rockets for market share - but, and this is a big but, they are also in a top-10 media market in this country with a track-record for supporting hockey. It's not like putting a third team in Atlanta, or replacing a failing Coyotes team with another franchise. I honestly think Houston could give it a go, if, and only if, the NHL put some contingencies on it, like they did in Winnipeg. And that may be the new norm - guaranteeing a certain level of ticket sales. Maybe not as high a level as the 'Peg was required to support, but maybe a place like Houston would be required to sell 7,000 season tickets with 1-3 year commitments.

Using a flat 3% inflation figure, I got $251 from 1990 through 2011, not $222...

Inflation is not flat (hence the "~"). I used this:

http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

And put an 2 in there rather than a 3. Sorry - should be $232. I'll edit my post.

For all you that are freaking out about price for authentics, Rivercitysports.com has them reg $269 on for $149 right now.

Assuming they wouldn't sell them at a loss, maybe we should all be "freaking out" about the price of authentics since this indicates just how huge the league's markup really is. At least $100 profit on a $250 product? Must be nice.

Let's look at this logically, shall we?

First, let's take a look at inflation. I bought my first NHL authentic in 1990 for $135. Inflation is ~ 3%, and over the last 20 years, that means the cost of a $135 item would make that purchase roughly $232. $269 isn't that much of a stretch with that perspective now is it?

Now consider the other big factor brought up - profit margin. Sure, making $100 sounds nice, and we could all get rich if we sold authentic jerseys all day long. The problem is that not a lot of them are sold - just like cars - so that when they are sold, the dealer has to turn a decent profit. See, the dealer is taking the risk of spending $150 by buying them from Reebok. Then has to have them sit around in his showroom or store until someone wants to buy it. Let's say he buys 10 authentic jerseys at $1500 from Reebok and sets the price at $269. Sure, if he sells them all, he's going to realize a nice profit of $1190. But what if only 3 sell at full price because Joe Thornton got traded from the Bruins to the Sharks? Suddenly he's got $807 in the bank, and is still $693 from breaking even. Selling for cost still makes that owner a profit, but how many people post trade are going to want a Bruins Thornton authentic jersey at that point? Maybe he can sell them for $100 and just eek out a profit. Maybe he has to sell them to TJ Maxx at $50 a piece and never gets out from under it. Or, maybe he gets lucky - in that he doesn't buy Thornton jerseys. Maybe he buys Steve Yzerman jerseys. Still, it may take that guy a whole year to sell those 10 jerseys. And in that time, he's out the $1500 until he can sell ~ 6 of them.

I was directed to this thread by one of the guys I get jerseys for, we both think you are all hilarious. I have several china jerseys and they have all stood up to multiple washes and look great for the price. I feel no shame depriving the leagues of my money in this case. I go to several games a year, pay for center ice, sunday ticket ect... The way players change teams and teams change designs I will continue to do this.

Might want to revisit this bit of info from a shop owner in my town who "got jerseys" for other guys...

http://www.justice.gov/usao/mn/press/apr022.pdf

Hope that works out well for you

A guy here in my town just got sentanced to 6 months in FEDERAL PRISON for selling Chinese fakes at his store:

http://www.bemidjipioneer.com/event/article/id/100027639/

Note, from the article:

Following Friday’s sentencings, Mike Feinberg, Special Agent in Charge of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s Homeland Security Investigations in Bloomington, Minn., said, “The creation, smuggling and sale of counterfeit goods are not victimless crimes. Products that are produced and sold illegally are a threat to the health and safety of the public, harm trademark holders, are distributed by organized crime groups and are then sold to the detriment of local businesses and communities who derive no financial gain from illegal sales. ICE HSI is committed to an aggressive approach toward enforcing the nation’s intellectual property rights laws.”

Want to know the definition of "complete 'effin moron"? THE EXACT SAME MALL that this clown sold this crap at now has a new store selling NBA China rip-offs. This story has been all over the news here for the last month, yet this guy can't wait to join him... These people deserve what they get.

I was at Hawk Quarters in Chicago today and, no kidding, a guy walks in in the worst knock of and asks "hey, take a look at this, how much do you think this is worth?" and without missing a beat the girl behind the counter goes "nothing, that is a piece of garbage knock off. Needless to say, the dude goes absolutely ballistic because he is convinced that he's gotten the best deal on Earth when in fact what he got was, well, junk.

anyone really concerned about a knock off is/must be young and worried about trivial crap like what other people think. Or if youre older,you possess no wisdom and worry about really stupid crap. I have a couple knock offs and they are fine. The numbers are a tad big but its obvious what team is being represented and they are better quality than over priced pseudo replicas sold in America.

Sure its nice to have what is considered the real thing but paying 300 for a football jersey is pretty stupid....I do hope to get one eventually, but for now knock offs are fine.

One day I'd like to buy my own cable. But for now stealing my neighbors is fine.

One day I'd like to have my own Porche, but for now, I can't afford one from the authroized retailer so I will just buy one on the black market from a chop shop. It's the same thing, right? I mean, I don't care whose intellectual property is being respected or paid for or anything, I just care that I can hit my pricepoint on the things I want, because gosh darn-it, I am entitled!

I'll post the quote from last page again and the guy who got 6 months in the federal pen for selling this stuff:

Following Friday’s sentencings, Mike Feinberg, Special Agent in Charge of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s Homeland Security Investigations in Bloomington, Minn., said, “The creation, smuggling and sale of counterfeit goods are not victimless crimes. Products that are produced and sold illegally are a threat to the health and safety of the public, harm trademark holders, are distributed by organized crime groups and are then sold to the detriment of local businesses and communities who derive no financial gain from illegal sales. ICE HSI is committed to an aggressive approach toward enforcing the nation’s intellectual property rights laws.”

But that's OK, you totally deserve that "cheap" shirt... Don't worry at all about the drug dealers or terrorists that are profiting off the sales, or the guy next door who owns the legitimate sports store thats going to lose his house since he lost all his jersey business to the counterfeit guys... Again, it's all about you, deserving a cheap shirt...

A guy here in my town just got sentanced to 6 months in FEDERAL PRISON for selling Chinese fakes at his store:

http://www.bemidjipioneer.com/event/article/id/100027639/

Note, from the article:

Following Friday?s sentencings, Mike Feinberg, Special Agent in Charge of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement?s Homeland Security Investigations in Bloomington, Minn., said, ?The creation, smuggling and sale of counterfeit goods are not victimless crimes. Products that are produced and sold illegally are a threat to the health and safety of the public, harm trademark holders, are distributed by organized crime groups and are then sold to the detriment of local businesses and communities who derive no financial gain from illegal sales. ICE HSI is committed to an aggressive approach toward enforcing the nation?s intellectual property rights laws.?

Infared, that makes no sense. Those are my logos that i have made and havn't given the rights away to.

With the NFL and such, the artists already made their money.

But you own the rights, correct? And that allows you to use them as you see fit (like telling Infared he can't make t-shirts or bumber stickers, etc. and sell them), right? 'Cause then you'd want a cut... And if you sold the rights, whoever bought the rights would deserve a cut too?

Why does it have to be about the artist? How about the investment if I decided to buy your logos? Why sholdn't that be protected?

I hated when this store opened, as they sold the crap posted in this thread, so I'm glad the owner got his:

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/190887/group/homepage/

Isnt Tropicana Field relatively new? And they talk about renovating it....for what? Who is going to use it if the Rays move into a new ballpark?

Re-read the origional article. They aren't talking about renovating the Trop, rather tearing it down, selling the land and using the money generated from the sale (where that land (the land the Trop currnetly sits on) is turned into retail space).

The renovation you're refering to on the Trop are renovations that have already been done just to get the Trop even close to modern standards for a MLB ballpark... As others have noted, for a stadium that's barely 20 years old, it was outdated the moment it opened...

Moose