loogodude90

Actually its not. That RNH jersey is a counterfeit fashion jersey.

I know, and it's right on par with most authentic fashion jerseys.

Some friendly advice... Please leave this thread now. I know humans are inherently predisposed to winning, arguments or otherwise, but this is just getting ridiculous.

So why are you targeting me, then, if everyone is intent on "winning?" Could it possibly be that you can't handle the crazy idea of someone disagreeing with you?

How 'bout you "let" me stay, Mr. Armchair Moderator, and instead, you try to make a decent on-topic counter-argument for once? Or is that too much to ask for?

Actually its not. That RNH jersey is a counterfeit fashion jersey.

I know, and it's right on par with most authentic fashion jerseys.

That is the single most authentic jersey I have ever seen ever.

Make it the primary

It's actually on par with most fashion jerseys out there.

Then the FBI must suck at their job, because they sure don't "show" their caring about Chinese NFL jerseys, considering how many people get away with it.

The FBI understands that there are bigger battles to fight than Chinese NFL jerseys, which is why they don't pay as much attention to them as you'd like.

Remember when you said that?

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Federal-authorities-seize-nearly-fake-Super-Bowl-goods-020212

Now remember when "they" did this?

LOL. Andray Blatche hit 2 three-pointers this season. Does that mean he's a great three-point shooter? You can't take isolated incidents and use them to generalize. The amount of counterfeit merchandise that slips through the cracks is FAR greater than the amount of counterfeit merchandise that actually gets people in trouble - that's why it keeps showing up. Again, the FBI realizes that there are bigger battles to fight - Chinese NFL jerseys aint one of them.

But I was posting the gif of him brushing his shoulders off after I made logodude look silly again. It's just like people talking about or to you, and you just brush your shoulders of.

LOL, wow. SOMEONE is taking this internet discussion a little to much to heart. If someone disagrees with you on an issue, that's not them "talking about or to you." But if it makes you feel like a pimp, nigga, go and brush your shoulders off.

I felt super white saying that haha.

Yeah, it came across as super white, too.

Edit: Thanks to icecap and Morgo for the support and understanding of this issue. Glad we are on the same page.

You just KNOW you are losing an argument when you have to actually THANK people for agreeing with you. Jesus Christ.

I agree that buying counterfeits is not a solution because that actually means a financial loss for the team.

I disagree - many counterfeit merchandise wearers would not buy the merchandise at "regular" price. There's no financial loss for the team. You're (wrongly) assuming that everyone who wears counterfeit merchandise would be willing to buy the product at "regular" price - nowhere near true.

However, by buying replicas you lose the money yourself. I bought myself Orlando Magic replica jersey when I was in USA 3 years ago (swingman appeared too expensive for me). After wearing it a couple of times and before washing it even once, the numbers started to peal off already, meaning I cannot really use it anymore.

And of course that kind of story is going to happen now and again, regardless of whether the product is counterfeit or "authentic." Hell, numbers peel off of jerseys that the actual players wear in games, now and then.

World famous para-athlete Rick Hansen.

WHHYYYYYY!!?!?!??!

Oh god why....

Because

1) He is a grown man who can wear what he wants (does he make fun of what you wear?) and

2) Most people wouldn't think it's a counterfeit. I wouldn't have thought it was a counterfeit if it wasn't posted in this thread. Is it counterfeit? Or are you upset that he is in a Canucks jersey?

I think it looks good on him. It's a nice jersey.

But people still get traffic tickets which are not high on the crime scale.

And often, that is a manufactured "crime."

Oh, and I could easily say that Chinese NFL jerseys are not "high on the crime scale."

They might not care or be able to get each person, but when it comes to mass quanities, you are incorrect, they do care.

And a big reason they care is because they need to "do stuff" to justify their existence. Oh, and to get money.

I realize you never stated it, but it seemed the way your argument was leaning.

Yeah, you misunderstood then. I only really say what I mean. I'm not a "hidden messages within my message" kind of guy.

I don't think Federal Law Enforcement are a bunch of busy bodies or self righteous.

If you ever get in trouble for a manufactured crime, you'll see where I'm coming from. If you never have, then you might not see where I am coming from.

Oh, and I don't believe that you aren't a criminal. That's bull . If you have ever driven over the speed limit, then you are a criminal. Or do you selectively break whichever laws you want, and then complain when other people break laws that you "feel" matter?

I'm stating two facts: it's illegal and it looks terrible.

LOL, so you saying that a nice jersey looks terrible makes it a fact? I guess that fits in well with your "logic."

Cute. I think the FBI has a slightly different understanding of crime then you do.

Then the FBI must suck at their job, because they sure don't "show" their caring about Chinese NFL jerseys, considering how many people get away with it.

The FBI understands that there are bigger battles to fight than Chinese NFL jerseys, which is why they don't pay as much attention to them as you'd like.

Putting the word victimless before the word crime doesn't negate illegality or criminal behavior, which may be what you are getting at. But this a crime, and it does indeed have victims in many senses. The American workforce, those receiving profits from a product, the owners of places that sell the items legally, and so on.

I never said it was a victimless crime, which leads me to believe you didn't really read my post, and instead just want to argue for the sake of arguing.

I guess the "busybodies" in Federal Law Enforcement are "self righteous" according to you.

Yeah, I do think a lot of Federal Law Enforcement is a bunch of self-righteous busybodies. A lot of times they look to make up crimes just to justify their existence. Surely you already knew this? I would hope.

Also, I don't buy your quality argument. The appearance of a jersey is part of the quality, not just the material lasting over time. The crappy logos and words on the fake Ravens jersey and others is a sign of poor quality.

I don't think we're talking about the same jersey - that Ravens jersey looks fine, and most people on the street wouldn't give a damn. If the owner of the jersey is happy with his product, that's all that really matters - not whether YOU approve of it. Don't like it? Then don't buy it.

If I want to see Death Blow, I'll buy the DVD and not a choppy copy from Brody on the street.

Now you're making meaningless comparisons. You're comparing something whose bad quality directly worsens your enjoyment (a poor quality bootleg DVD) and something whose debatable bad quality doesn't negatively impact your enjoyment (a fake jersey). Based on the responses on this board, it seems like the fake jersey wearers are perfectly happy with their products, and the only people annoyed by it are the people who don't wear fakes - which is basically the exact opposite of the bootleg DVD example.

Nevertheless, I'll try to entertain your comparison.

I've bought bootleg DVD's before, and their quality sucked. So because of that, I'll probably never buy a bootleg DVD again. Many of the fake jerseys posted here seem fine. If I bought some fake jerseys and they fell apart within a month, I would acknowledge their quality sucked... but that hasn't happened to me. I don't have anything against people who buy fake jerseys. If I DO want to become some sort of self-righteous nosy busybody out to fight "crime," it's going to be against something that is a bigger deal and more serious than Chinese NFL jerseys.

Wow, nice quality. 6 years? I'd say you made a great purchase here. I wouldn't know that was a fake, and neither would most people.

Except that everything about it screams "fake." The jersey mesh, bubbly numbers, shoddy sleeve logo and super-tight neck.

I'm going to disagree here - maybe to a neurotic blowhard like you it would look fake, but I would be willing to bet that 9 out of 10 people (if not more!) people on the street wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Oh, and they probably wouldn't care either, if they found out. Because balanced people aren't obsessed with pointing out who of the random people they see in public are wearing "fakes" and who aren't.

I'd rather look good for a year and a half than cheap for six?

LOL, was that meant to be a question?

You are a dumb consumer, then. Congratulations on being duped and wasting your money. Have fun buying unnecessarily overpriced jerseys every year, while the more enlightened folks spend less money for a equal or higher quality product.

About the only thing I noticed was the inside collar where in would say NFL Authentic on the silver tape is worn...but for a shirt that has 180 wearings and 181 washings...I washed it 1 time before I wore it. I would say for $20 it has held up well for 6 years.

Wow, nice quality. 6 years? I'd say you made a great purchase here. I wouldn't know that was a fake, and neither would most people.

Apparently this is an unpopular opinion:

This is the best the Astros have ever looked

Players in the Wrong Uniform anyone?

Haha, yeah.

Nah, I disagree with that... he spent six seasons with the 'stros. I actually almost think of him as an Astro first and foremost because I have so many baseball cards from the years he was with them.

Culpepper

I actually got a Raiders Daunte Culpepper jersey for like 30 bucks two years after he was gone.

Wow... you got ripped off.

Ha. I didn't care, I just wanted a Raiders jersey with the number 8 on it.

And you're a Patriots fan? That makes sense.

There's a lot of weird "fans" like that on this site. There are people who have like ten favorite teams in each league, including rivals of each other, and they just like whichever of those teams are doing best at the time. It doesn't really make sense, but I guess to each his own.

That's not a "nondescript blob."

The original logo is so superior to this one in my opinion. Why couldn't they have just brought it back and be done with it? There seems to be this "thing" that happens when teams bring back old school logos and unis where they feel like they have to over modernize them (refer to: Chargers, Bills, Sabres, etc.)

Probably because if they did, then people would complain it looks too outdated. And I agree with them, for some retro looks. An old logo occasionally needs to be touched up a little bit if brought back, so that it doesn't look completely out of place.

One guy was wearing a Ryne Sandberg jersey and it looked pretty good, the only way you could tell I was a fake was the MLB logo on the back was off, and also they don't sell current jerseys with retired players' names.

Maybe I'm wrong on this, but couldn't he have gotten a custom current jersey with SANDBERG on it? I mean I'm not saying it wasn't a fake, but I don't think that's evidence of it being a fake.

I don't think so. I'm pretty sure MLB doesn't allow you to customize current jerseys with retired players' names, managers/coaches names, etc.

The NFL, NHL and MLB don't allow retired players' names and numbers on customized jerseys (the NBA does, however). Pretty sure you can get an aftermarket job done from a place like River City Sports or any of the other sites that do post-purchase customizing, though.

Seems to only apply to the NFL's website. Retired player names/numbers can be put on jerseys bought through the team shop but not NFLshop.com. Why that is, I have no idea.

EDIT: Scratch that, some teams' sites seem to allow retired players and some don't, but NFLshop.com doesn't allow any of them. Hopefully someone in the know can clear this up 'cause I'm confused.

That's really stupid, then. What if a player with an extremely common surname (like Johnson or Smith or Jones) retires? Then the only fans who can get a customized jersey for that team have to be the ones without that name? Some guy named Jim Johnson can't get his name on a jersey then?

I believe it's through licensing of the Players' Associations, which retired players would not be a part of.

Right, but it's still stupid that a fan wouldn't be able to get a jersey with his name on it just because he has the same name as a player who used to play for that team.

One guy was wearing a Ryne Sandberg jersey and it looked pretty good, the only way you could tell I was a fake was the MLB logo on the back was off, and also they don't sell current jerseys with retired players' names.

Maybe I'm wrong on this, but couldn't he have gotten a custom current jersey with SANDBERG on it? I mean I'm not saying it wasn't a fake, but I don't think that's evidence of it being a fake.

I don't think so. I'm pretty sure MLB doesn't allow you to customize current jerseys with retired players' names, managers/coaches names, etc.

The NFL, NHL and MLB don't allow retired players' names and numbers on customized jerseys (the NBA does, however). Pretty sure you can get an aftermarket job done from a place like River City Sports or any of the other sites that do post-purchase customizing, though.

Seems to only apply to the NFL's website. Retired player names/numbers can be put on jerseys bought through the team shop but not NFLshop.com. Why that is, I have no idea.

EDIT: Scratch that, some teams' sites seem to allow retired players and some don't, but NFLshop.com doesn't allow any of them. Hopefully someone in the know can clear this up 'cause I'm confused.

That's really stupid, then. What if a player with an extremely common surname (like Johnson or Smith or Jones) retires? Then the only fans who can get a customized jersey for that team have to be the ones without that name? Some guy named Jim Johnson can't get his name on a jersey then?

Don't be fooled by the pictures - a lot of those scumbags use pictures of legit jerseys and then send you crap ones.

Yep, I fell for that back in 2006 before I understood the fake jersey market. I got a Lance Briggs jersey that looked close to legit if you overlooked the bubbly numbers and the fact that the back numbers were sewn on at a 10 degree angle. The seller accepted the return, but I didn't report him to ebay for fear he would leave me negative feedback.

Don't trust ANY seller on ebay unless he provides numerous photos of the jersey from different angles. If you are unsure or see that the same photo is used for multiple postings (by that seller or others), message him and ask him for more photos, such as a close-up of the sleeve numbers. Any listing with a picture of an authentic jersey with no background to the image (just the jersey) is taking an image from NFL.com or another legit website and using it to cover for the fakes they are selling.

Yeah, but that's true for buying anything online. That's not specific to the counterfeit jersey market. If you're EVER buying ANYTHING online that you haven't seen in person yourself, you're running the risk of being screwed. Even if there are multiple photos from multiple angles, that doesn't mean . They could still be fake.

Perfect? No. But they won tons of titles wearing them. Thus they will stay.

That's terrible logic for keeping a uniform, though. You shouldn't judge whether a team should keep a set solely based on how well they played in them. There's got to be some aesthetics/fashion judgment, too.

One guy was wearing a Ryne Sandberg jersey and it looked pretty good, the only way you could tell I was a fake was the MLB logo on the back was off, and also they don't sell current jerseys with retired players' names.

Maybe I'm wrong on this, but couldn't he have gotten a custom current jersey with SANDBERG on it? I mean I'm not saying it wasn't a fake, but I don't think that's evidence of it being a fake.

As a similiar example, many people think that NFL tickets are too expensive, however at the first sight of a fake ticket a person is not getting into a game why is that practice not tolerated, but fake jereys etc... are?

Seriously? Maybe it's because someone with a fake ticket creates problems for the person who legitimately bought a ticket and finds their seat occupied by someone else? Maybe we can equate the two when buying a counterfeit jersey takes a legit jersey off of someone elses back.

I have been reading this thread with a bit of interest, sometimes impressed by and sometimes bemused by the arguments advanced. Some of the sweeping generalisations ignore the concept that not all laws are equally just; a moral actor feels perfectly fine about breaking those laws which uphold injustice.

Someone already mentioned smoking pot. When I used to smoke pot, I had absolutely no compunction about breaking the law (I had fear of getting caught, sure; but I had no moral quandary), because the law in question is itself morally objectionable. Mass lawbreaking is in such a case a social good, in the hope that the consensus eventually shifts to such a point where the law becomes so untenable that it will be overturned. Whereas, when I ride my bicycle, I obey the traffic rules, because the legal regime in that case is not morally reprehensible but beneficial to society.

It is not sufficent to make claims about the nature of lawbreaking in general (as though there is such a thing), while failing to acknowledge the great difference between just and unjust laws. Someone else's moral compass may differ from mine, of course; but surely everyone maintains this distinction, and has in his/her ethics a line past which he/she would consider the breaking of a law to be entirely morally correct. (Incidentally: my point of view on the moral questions of counterfeiting is that I am sympathetic to the argument about unfair labour conditions, but not to the one about IP protection.)

On the practical side, reacting only to the quoted material, I want to say that I am baffled by the comment about counterfeit tickets. The comparison doesn't make any sense to me because someone with a fake ticket will never get into the game, due to the fact that the fakery will be spotted. So the person who buys a fake ticket cheats only himself or herself, and gets no benefit whatsoever.

Whereas, the person who buys a fake jersey does get the psychic benefit of showing fandom of a team or a player. Most other people seeing the jersey won't notice the difference; the wearer of the fake jersey will thus get the same conversation-starting benefit from the fake that a legal jersey would provide.

In other words, the counterfeit jerseys are often good enough to function as the real thing, while the counterfeit tickets never are. For this reason, I find the comparison to counterfeit tickets a bit incoherent.

+1 - possibly the most well thought out post in this thread. I guess sometimes the quietest people really do have the loudest minds!

As a similiar example, many people think that NFL tickets are too expensive, however at the first sight of a fake ticket a person is not getting into a game why is that practice not tolerated, but fake jereys etc... are?

Because a ticket and a jersey are two entirely different types of items. A ticket is used as proof/evidence that you are allowed to "get in," just like an ID. A jersey is just something you just hang in your closet/room or wear. A jersey is not used to legitimize your right to be somewhere, whereas a ticket is. Two completely different things.

Also, I think that's a Rev30 jock tag, which would not have been on the Sonics' jerseys. The kerning on the seattle looks off.

This is the most obvious mistake to me. Not just the kerning, but it looks like the arching on the letters and the shape of the white arch are off as well.

I noticed that too, but again, $28. Is it perfect? No. But it's not ugly or off enough to stop me from wearing it. It passes the "close enough" test.

There are certainly counterfeit jerseys (hell, jerseys in general) out there that look like complete and are laughable, but this isn't one of them.

Way, way back I promised to post pictures of my Durant China counterfeit. After a long wait, here they are. They main reason that I bought this China counterfeit is because I can't find any Kevin Durant Sonics gear from any legitimate sales.

Sure, there are some obvious flaws, most notably the orange piping around the neck instead of yellow, but for $28, I'm happy with what I got.

Yeah, that's not bad at all. First of all that orange looks more goldish to me, and I wouldn't have even noticed much of a color difference if you didn't say anything.

I think that jersey looks great. For $28, you surely came out on top here.

The wavy material on the 35 is a giveaway too.

Are you sure about that? A lot of NBA jerseys in the past decade or so have had shiny/wavy material on various parts of their uniforms, including numbers. Are you sure the Sonics didn't during that era?

Just as a side note, I actually think that wavy material makes the jersey look even better.

Way, way back I promised to post pictures of my Durant China counterfeit. After a long wait, here they are. They main reason that I bought this China counterfeit is because I can't find any Kevin Durant Sonics gear from any legitimate sales.

Sure, there are some obvious flaws, most notably the orange piping around the neck instead of yellow, but for $28, I'm happy with what I got.

Yeah, that's not bad at all. First of all that orange looks more goldish to me, and I wouldn't have even noticed much of a color difference if you didn't say anything.

I think that jersey looks great. For $28, you surely came out on top here.

So how about this scenario - I know that I've posted about the guy here who got prison time for selling counterfeit jerseys. I just found out that they are now selling a group of those at a local resale shop (no idea of the price, but I think I'll stop to check it out on Monday). Interesting development that I'll have to check out...

Somebody got time? I thought we were told there is no legal issue here?

I don't think there's isn't a legal issue. I think the point is that a lot of people just don't think it's a "crime" that should necessarily be given so much attention. People break the law everyday, hell, you break the law everyday, though you don't like to admit it.

66 pages of self-righteous moralizing later, so many posters fail to grasp that this is an economic issue. Go ahead and charge an exorbitant amount for an easily duplicated product, and don't be surprised when the counterfeits proliferate.

Obviously it can't be hurting the manufacturers that badly if the prices for these things have remained the same or gone up. Once they feel it you'll see prices start to come down as it did with the music industry - Napster and Limewire brought a swift and merciful end to the days of the $24.99 backcatalogue CD. Perhaps it won't be long before the same happens to the $299.99 authentic jersey.

Moral of the thread: We are all entitled to own whatever we want and nobody has a right to set the amount you must pay them. Since it's wrong of them to deprive you of things you want, just steal anything you don't feel like paying for.

Exactly. A jersey is a luxury item. You're not entitled to one. If you think the prices of the official product is to high don't buy it. If enough people don't buy official jerseys for this reason then the prices will drop. You're capable of effecting the market without supporting illegal activities such as ip theft.

Except the thing is, you don't have the authority to tell people what they should and should not buy. Nice try, though.