troy_3223
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Posts posted by troy_3223
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The last figure skating event at Key Arena that I can find was the Stars on Ice tour February 25, 2012.
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I wanted the Coyotes out of Arizona but not in the half-assed fashion in which it seems to be proceeding. Key Arena will possibly become home to an NHL franchise in just about 2 months with the preseason and the rumors are that it WILL be ready? Bettman and his cronies are turning this league into a bigger joke than it already has been for a few years.
Yeah, and Seattle's mayor is a bumble:censored:, too, seeing as he basically confirmed that they are getting the Coyotes while the NHL is hush hush and still claiming they are committed to Glendale. What a joke, the whole damn situation.
bumble:censored I will agree with, but he never confirmed the Coyotes are definitely coming to Seattle.
My gut tells me that he didn't say anything about it publicly until the NHL wanted him to, and the NHL wanted him to in order to put the screws on Glendale City Council. I don't think many people see this as anything other than using one city to leverage a situation in another.
The irony in this situation is that while I don't think the NBA was truly using Seattle to get a better deal in Sacramento, that was the ultimate outcome. I believe the NHL is using Seattle only to get a better deal in Glendale, but the Coyotes are more likely to move here than the Sacramento Kings were.
But yes, McGinn is a complete bumble:censored:
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Serious note... Are coyotes in Seattle/Washington?
Yep. Ran by a dead one on the side of the road the other day.
Cottage Lake? I think I ran by the same one.
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Another case of where "playing the percentages" overcedes raw numbers.
In a city of 1 million, the Quebec City NHL team would be cared by 1 million people.
In a city of 3 million, the Seattle NHL team would be cared by 150,000 people. The other 95% would be split by the Seahawks (25%), Sounders (25%), Mariners (10%) and Sonics* (35%).
*Seattle is a basketball-first city, and despite losing the Sonics to Oklahoma City 5 years ago, they still have the largest sports-attention draw in the city
This seems to be based on an erroneous assumption that people only care about one sport, which is ridiculous.
True and (somewhat) false. Based on the people I've met who align themselves with Seattle sports, on seeing TV reports from news shows and sports-related media on YouTube, and on other sports blogs and forums I've read articles on, these are my rough estimations of what percentage of their pro teams people in the Northwest tend to show the greatest interest towards.
Given the saga of the whole Sonics relocation and their (failed) efforts of acquiring the Sac Kings, I tend to believe Seattle is a basketball city (also helps that their only pro championship was won by their 1979 NBA team). There is so much anger and hostility those people have towards Stern, Bennett and Schultz for their treatment of their NBA team, that anything they do gets the attention of the local media and the people running the whole "Sonicsgate" campaign.
The Seahawks are picking up steam with Pete Carroll and Russell Wilson running the show, while the Sounders have opened up the Northwest region as a very viable one for MLS and all of North American soccer (also the fact that the Sounders picked up casual fans distraught by the Sonics relocation in mid-2008 when their team was promoted to MLS status for the 2009 season). So they both have the next share of interest. The Mariners (as Kramerica or whoever else pointed it out) have been mostly an abyss for their franchise, who are the remaining AL franchise to have never won their pennant,* so they get the last share of attention.
But the whole "people only caring about one team in multi-team cities" does have some validity. For example:
-Detroit has four teams, yet it relies on the Red Wings first and foremost for success (although the Tigers come in a close 2nd).
-Los Angeles is a Lakers/Clippers town; even with the Kings/Ducks and Angels/Dodgers, the talk of this city (especially of the media) is all related to basketball, from the absurd trade "proposals," to the drama off the court between the players, to the even-more ridiculous comparisons to legendary players (Kobe vs. Jordan/LeBron/Magic/Bird).
-Dallas' allegiance is with the Cowboys first, followed by the declining Mavs, the Rangers and the scrappy Stars seeking attention.
-In Miami, LeBron has transformed that city into an NBA city. All the sucking the Dolphins have done has alienated those customers, there's the screw job Loria has done with the Marlins, and who in Miami pays attention to the NHL's Panthers on a nightly basis?
*I don't count the Astros in this factoid, since this is their first year in the American League. But even so, they do have a 2005 NL pennant, which means they have one more league championship flag than the Mariners
I will concede that there is some validity to the argument. But loyal fan allegiances are usually built on championships. Every instance you cited is due to a winning tradition. Seattle hasn't had that yet, outside of the 79 Sonics, which may explain the nostalgia and anger surrounding the Sonics.
Another factor that makes the Seattle sports scene different is our perception that we get shafted in national media coverage.
Therefore, our fan base is a little more fluid. There are some who stick to one team in one sport, but I'd venture to guess as high as 70% will throw in with whichever team is doing the best. Most of the sports fans I know in the area are like that. We have our favorite teams and sports (Mariners and NHL for me), but we'll show up to support whichever team is winning (because it's usually only one team at a time).
I've seen Key Arena packed for Storm games over the last few years. In person. Because as much as I hate to admit it, I'm a fair-weather bandwagoning Seattle fan just like the rest of them. But can you blame me for just wanting to get caught up in the excitement of a winning team? If the Mariners start winning on a pace that will put them in the postseason, the Sounders attendance will start declining. If the Coyotes come to town and make the playoffs, they'll have solid attendance. If they make it deep, the fanbase will even give them a two year grace period like we did with the M's after the 2001 116 win season.
There just hasn't been enough of a winning tradition with any one of our sports teams to foster the same rabid loyalty other cities have.
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Another case of where "playing the percentages" overcedes raw numbers.
In a city of 1 million, the Quebec City NHL team would be cared by 1 million people.
In a city of 3 million, the Seattle NHL team would be cared by 150,000 people. The other 95% would be split by the Seahawks (25%), Sounders (25%), Mariners (10%) and Sonics* (35%).
*Seattle is a basketball-first city, and despite losing the Sonics to Oklahoma City 5 years ago, they still have the largest sports-attention draw in the city
This seems to be based on an erroneous assumption that people only care about one sport, which is ridiculous. I'm not going to argue that the NHL will outdraw the Sounders or the Seahawks, but I would have to assume there would be some overlap.
I'm not sure why the NHL believes Seattle is a better destination than Quebec. But if the definition of success is that the Seattle team outdraws the current iteration of the Phoenix Coyotes, it could easily be a success, even in Key Arena.
However, five or six years down the road, this thread will likely be re-opened. Likely landing spots for a failed Seattle NHL franchise will include Atlanta, Phoenix, and Kansas City. People will be arguing that Phoenix and Atlanta would be preferable to Kansas City because of their "rich hockey histories".
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Then just say "It's a dumb idea", give an explanation why, and then I would take it as constructive criticism.
It's a dumb idea. And I'm not comfortable with the idea that you are somehow entitled to an explanation why. Opinions can be wrong. in this instance yours is.
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Arena capacity doesn't have much to do with corporate support. Especially if the NHL considers all tickets allocated or given away towards attendance, as I believe they do.
Sure, selling those suites is nice. But ad revenue is nicer.
Time for another Vern Fonk Power Play brought to you by Bing!
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First google result for George Gosbee reveals that he's so patriotically Canadian he has a maple leaf tattoo.
This is sooo the kind of guy who's gonna pay out of his ass to fund the continued existence of desert hockey.
What if is true intention is to move the Coyotes to Abbotsford?
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Aaron Ward @aaronward_nhl
Further to @DarrenDreger #PHX relocation.NHLPA source,expect decision to come before start of playoffs.Gone is Glendale $25M subsidy. #TSN
Just saw this on the twitter-box.
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It's as if a bunch of people were roofied and stuffed into jerseys before being plopped into seats at the arena.
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You sadly need a 34th team. 33 teams equals an odd number, which would make the playoffs almost impossible.
Sorry I didn't make this clear enough - I'm running under the assumption that Phoenix is going somewhere, whether that is Markham, Seattle, or Quebec City. It's 32 teams, and I would hope that expansion would happen after the relocation of Phoenix to one of those three destinations.
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He would have gotten away with it if not for those meddling kids. Jinkies. I hope someone proves that Mr. Fallar is also BigMac12.
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I think I've figured out a realignment for the NHL that makes some sense, given the screwy geography and potential relocation of the Coyotes and eventual poorly thought out expansion.
Conference 1 - Pacific/Smythe/Gretzky conference
Vancouver
Edmonton
Calgary
Colorado
San Jose
Los Angeles
Anaheim
Phoenix
Eventually Seattle by relocation or expansion
Conference 2 - Great Lakes/Norris/Howe Conference
Winnipeg
Minnesota
Chicago
Detroit
Toronto
Buffalo
Ottawa
Eventually Markham by relocation or expansion
Conference 3 Northeast/Adams/Orr Conference
Montreal
Boston
NY Rangers
NY Islanders
New Jersey
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh
Eventually Quebec City by relocation or expansion
Conference 4 - Southern/Patrick/Hull Conference
Columbus
Washington
St. Louis
Carolina
Nashville
Dallas
Tampa Bay
Florida
Once the relocation/expansion is done, each conference could be split into two divisions
The Pacific into North and South divisions
Great Lakes into East and West
Northeast into North and South
Southern into East and West
The purpose of the divisions would be for seeding and keeping travel costs down with an unbalanced schedule.
Top team in each division would get an automatic playoff berth, with the top two remaining teams in each conference getting the remaining playoff berths.
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I think they had to be on public property, so no Westgate. I think they sat outside a library or a pool or something. They also had a Coyotes fan club harassing them and prospective signatories.
There's the problem right there. Didn't they have the libraries or pools or somethings closed down to pay for this ludicrosity in the first place?
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I disagree with the bolded statement though. Glendale was/is trying to market and project itself as something much larger than it is in reality. I think any other legitimate big league city wouldn't play these stupid games with a team. There are situations similar to Glendale/Coyotes in the sense of city's team playing in a suburb (Auburn Hills/Pistons, Arlington/Cowboys-Rangers, etc) but I can't off the top of my head think of any time a suburb tried to make themselves equal to its counterpart (and don't anybody try to turn this back on me with any Anaheim/LA comparisons. Anaheim/Orange County has always been a destination unto itself unlike Glendale). This whole thing (budget cuts/losing jobs/cutting of services/putting up the damn city hall as collateral) started because of Glendale's mighty aspirations. There are plenty of fingers to point, but the biggest one is right back at Glendale.
If something happens once, it can, and probably will, happen again. If any of the proposed deals to potential owners (Jamison's proposed deal included) were to happen then it would allow other teams, across all leagues and sports, to point to it and try to leverage as much as they can out of a city, possibly even to the point of determent to that city. You can say that the circumstances in Glendale are unique. I disagree. You'll find no shortage of municipal leaders who can be blinded by the "prestige" of pro sports.
There are other ways this has a negative effect on other cities. You can bet that people in Seattle and Quebec City are carefully watching this unfold. Chris Hansen has been very careful in trying to bring the NBA back to Seattle, trying to minimize the investment necessary for the city and county to get his arena built. There are members of the city and county councils who are opposed to it, and seem to be looking for any reason to oppose it (it seems like "because sports" works both ways). I suspect this will add to their opposition, and I imagine there are similarly-minded people in Quebec.
It would be reasonable to craft an argument that the NHL has used the city of Glendale, that Gary Bettman has allowed the city to be used to fund the league, and that the NHL does not partner well with municipalities. It's more of a reasonable argument that keeping the Coyotes in Glendale without an owner is financially motivated than the argument that it feeds his ego. I think in the long run, while the Coyotes provide the most hope for people in Seattle or Quebec to get the NHL to their cities, the city of Glendale's monumental idiocy will offset that hope.
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I say we take after Vancouver and head down to Glendale to start a riot. NO JUSTICE NO PEACE!
No need. If this thing passes, it'll be such a tragedy I'm sure the Westboro Baptist church will show up and picket.
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Community Development, six employees.
Parks, recreation and library, 15 employees.
Management and budget, one employee.
Field operations, 20 employees.
Police, 5 (non-sworn) employees.
Transportation, one employee.
Human resources, one employee.
"So be sure and include playoff tickets in their severance packages - make sure you save one for yourself"
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This still relies on the city giving away money they don't have and wouldn't be allowed to give if they did have it. This sounds like another dog and pony show, just like when Hulsizer was "just about" to buy the team. Great seats still available.
Yeah, that and the fact that Jamison's name was tied to the deal before Jamison himself was, this whole thing sounds fishy. Also that the timing of the moves have coincided with pushes to sell more (no doubt highly expensive) playoff tickets - it's all very reminiscent of the Hulsizer nonsense during the last playoff run.
One wonders who is safe and who is not safe from being the sacrificial lamb. Someone should list from least likely to most likely - I didn't really see the Thrashers going until it happened last year.
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He said getting a final deal still could take one or two months. Jamison declined to go into too many details about his bid or where his money is coming from and how much more he needs.
"We?re not at 100 percent yet," said Jamison, referring to the financing intricacies.
Didn't these jokers get enough time yet? I guess not.Can't believe the COG is going to pay them anything. But it looks like the floor is 11 million which is what the mayor is offering. The team still wants 20+.
Besides, nothing is serious until we see Jamison in a Coyotes jersey in a luxury box. I'm not normally this cynical, but this really feels to me like a ploy on the part of the team to sell some tickets so the league's team can appear less of an embarrassment on television. Much as the Hulzinger ploy was last year.
Either way, there's no way the CoG can pay to keep this going. That cynical part of me thinks this may be one last ploy by the league to extract one last payment from an entity that has proven effectively that they couldn't afford what they paid last year to keep the anchor tenant for their strip mall. This is almost not entertaining anymore.
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The Canadiens cancelled their preseason game at the Colisee. Another piece of the puzzle.
They also fired Pierre Gauthier, and Patrick Roy wants to get back into the NHL. Questionable piece of the puzzle.
The politician and the bureaucrat are leaving behind a debt of almost $1-billion (all currency U.S.) for the city of 250,000, much of it created by the decisions to build an arena for the NHL?s Phoenix Coyotes (and to spend more than $50-million propping up the team) and a spring-training complex for Major League Baseball?s Los Angeles Dodgers and Chicago White Sox.I was thinking, "whoa, that's not good," then my eyes caught something on the sidebar:
Anthony LeBlanc and his group of businessmen once known as Ice Edge Holdings are back in the Phoenix hockey picture.I don't think this bodes well for Les Coyotes
Anthony LeBlanc and his group of businessmen once known as Ice Edge Holdings are back in the Phoenix hockey picture.Only this time it is not to make an ownership bid on the financially moribund Phoenix Coyotes but to manage Jobing.com Arena in suburban Glendale and try to bring in a minor-league hockey team if the Coyotes move to another city this summer.
Perhaps this also doesn't bode well for the Abbotsford Heat...
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Ten minutes later, Gil Stein returned to Larson and MacFarland with strange - indeed, downright disturbing - news: Ackerley had introduced himself to the BOG, then informed them that the Seattle group was withdrawing its bid for an NHL expansion franchise. Ackerley gave no reason for the about-face. Ackerley and Lear then left the boardroom through another exit, so as not to cross paths with Larson MacFarland.
MacFarland and Larson were afforded the opportunity to make their presentation, despite having no formal bid expansion application before the BOG with their names on it. NHL expansion franchises were ultimately awarded to Ottawa and Tampa Bay, though neither group ever came up with the $50 million fee that the Seattle group had said they were prepared to pay in full.
This story I do know well (and the seattletotems.org website has a lot of articles worth reading on it for people interested not only in the history of the Totems, but in the history of the PCHL/WHL). Ackerley certainly left his mark on the Seattle sports scene. He's also the one responsible for Key Arena being remodeled to exclude NHL hockey.
I'll give you another story of Seattle hockey heartbreak in return.
"The Seattle fans went berserk. "The lexicon of sport," wrote the Seattle Daily Times, "does not contain language adequate to describe the fervor of the fans." But if the Seattle faithful were expecting to catch a glimpse of the fabled Stanley Cup, they were disappointed. Not only had the Montreal Canadiens left the chalice at home, but the Mets would have to put up a $500 bond before the NHA would relinquish it to their possession. It would be another three months before any of the Seattle players could hold the Cup aloft as world champions.
Even though the physical symbol of their victory was missing for a short time, the players took pride in the fact that they had done what no other U.S. team had ever done--etched their name on the base of the Stanley Cup"
excerpted from Gary Bernklow's essay on the 1917 Seattle Metropolitans - a great and very thorough resource http://www.narhist.ewu.edu/pnf/articles/bernklow.html
It's hard for me to be objective in this whole thing, this is the first time since Ackerley that the NHL in Seattle is possible (though in all honesty remains unlikely). When it comes to hockey, we've gotten screwed time and again, from the Canadiens leaving the cup in Montreal in 1917 to the WHA debacle to Ackerley - even down to the Thunderbirds leaving for Kent.
Columbus signed a new long-term lease agreement at their arena with the specter of Seattle looming over it. Phoenix is ready to go now and Quebec is next in line for a franchise, and deservedly so. If the Islanders do stay in New York or New Jersey, that leaves only the Florida Panthers as a candidate for relocation - and that is only based on consistently poor attendance. The ownership group isn't showing much signs of faltering. As I see it, there's about a three or four year window for two or three teams to relocate, given the history of the NHL as a whole.
But barring a miracle (or, perhaps likelier, a huge bungle made by the league) the Coyotes are going to Quebec, so relocation to Seattle is off-topic for now. Carry on
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Your timeline is messed up. Isles were '72, Scouts moved to Denver in '76 (and then the Meadowlands in '82). I don't doubt that the NHL has wanted to get in on Seattle for a long time, but that failed Seattle/Denver expansion was well after they set up shop on/squatted on Long Island, so it's not really a matter of them "coming home."
Isles aren't leaving the region, though. They'll play in the Barclays if they have to between the Nassau Coliseum and a new arena. Bruce Ratner was on during intermission of a game I watched last week, wildly gesticulating about how much he wanted to help keep the team around. I'm sure the team's various ownership/broadcast overlords wouldn't have him on TV for nothing.
It may be that I am off, I got obsessed with the old WHL/PCHL a few years back and as I remember it the Totems were still active when Seattle was promised an NHL franchise, and I had the Totems as going belly up in 73 on one of the spreadsheets I did (I see no need in hiding my obsessive/compulsive nature on our sports logo and uniform message board). I see now that it was 75, so I am probably off. As I was writing that last message, I had also nearly put down that the NHL tried to relocate the Isles and the Penguins before remembering that it was the Seals.
Perhaps wishful thinking got in the way a bit.
I know it's an outside shot for the Isles to leave the region (though leaving Nassau is almost a certainty), and that Seattle's role in the Islanders future is little more than a bogeyman to scare up some much needed support (I remember back when Jeff Smulyan used Tampa Bay in a similar manner against the Mariners), but this is the NHL, and seeing the latest shenanigans with Phoenix compared with the seemingly inept front office in New York, it's not completely outside the realm of possibility.
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You know, Seattle would've been a fine place for the NHL to go. Unfortunately, the old owner of the Supersonics led an expansion bid just so he could sabotage it at the last minute (Miami or Anaheim got it instead) and keep the Sonics from having competition. Then he had the Seattle Center Coliseum renovated to be basketball-specific so that an NHL counterpart would be untenable. And you know where he is now? Dead!
There was also supposed to be a Seattle/Denver expansion in the '70s, but it was cancelled because the Scouts moved to Denver instead. Poor Seattle.
:censored:in' KC Scouts...
Actually, the WHA beat the NHL to the punch and installed the Denver Spurs before the NHL could. KC didn't move to Denver until 1980. The Spurs identity was promoted from the Western Hockey League (or whatever it's name was at the time), the same league that had the original San Fransisco Seals and Vancouver Canucks. The NHL had sought to expand to Seattle and Denver, but were forced to expand to New York to keep the WHA from using the Nassau stadium. It would be fitting if, after the Coyotes move north to Quebec City, the Islanders finally come home to Seattle.
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I don't think the Canucks have the rights to Seattle. They sort of squat on the American Pacific Northwest by airing a limited slate of Canucks games on one of the RSNs, but I'm not sure it's a full-fledged claim of the region, nor does the region fully claim the Canucks.
As far as I can tell, the Canucks' reach goes about as far south as Mount Vernon, which is also about as far south as most Vancouverites go on weekends to outlet shop. Once you start getting into actual Seattle suburbs, there might be a lot of Canucks merch for sale or at least up in the windows, but they're still pandering to the tourists.
If you let me know where in the suburbs around Seattle there is any Canucks merchandise for sale, I will let my wife know where she can finish her Christmas shopping.
Didn't these jokers get enough time yet? I guess not.
NHL Anti-Thread: Bad Business Decision Aggregator
in Sports In General
Posted
Is this like one of those spambot posts that just pulls random words from the thread and strings them together in something that seems like sentences?