gosioux76

1 hour ago, daniel75 said:

Just awful, ads need to stay off of uniforms. They look terrible.

I get it. From a purist’s standpoint, this is a logical take. But most uniform purists don’t have any skin in the game. And we’re also the types to collectively mock these spring football leagues that fail after a season or two. 
 

If convincing Bud Light to fork over thousands of dollars to stick a small logo on the back of a helmet helps keep XFL around a bit longer, I’ll deal with it.
 

Looks won’t matter to a dead league.

3 hours ago, MJWalker45 said:

The other end zone says Cougars. they also have the cougars logos so that would require pulling them up as well. 

I know nothing about modern turf technology, but doesn't it seem more than reasonable to make turf in which design elements can be interchangeable? Like, replaceable endzone designs, etc. I might be asking too much. 

1 hour ago, Volt said:

 

I am now officially off the XFL bandwagon.

What a debacle.  Vince just couldn't help himself.

 

I mean, this isn't the greatest design, but I'm not sure it's enough to just outright dismiss an entire league. Seems kinda harsh.

On 12/21/2019 at 8:22 PM, Hat Boy said:

Is there any metric or statistical evidence that demonstrates one way or the other the impact of the Angels using "Los Angeles" in their name? 

I think this debate stands to illustrate one thing: that whichever regional identity the Angels use doesn't really make a difference. 

Using the name "Anaheim" means more for the city than it does the team. Using "Los Angeles" likely means more for the team than it does Los Angeles, at least when it comes to global brand recognition. 

Maybe it's the my nostalgia kicking in, but I'd be in favor of splitting the difference and going back to California Angels. 

15 hours ago, Brian in Boston said:

I'll grant you the "whimsy" factor insofar as the Pickles and Gherkins branding is concerned. That said, I don't know that I'm ready to label the organization "the West Coast equivalent of the St. Paul Saints" just yet. They've been around for a grand total of four seasons, while the modern incarnation of the Saints just completed its 27th campaign.

Don't get me wrong... the Portland Pickles have put together a well-run summer collegiate operation over their first four seasons. That said, so have the Savannah Bananas... a team that, in addition to being no slouch in the "whimsy" department itself, has averaged 4,083 fans per game, put together an 88-game sell-out streak over three consecutive seasons, and captured the Coastal Plain League's Petit Cup Championship in its inaugural year. And the Bananas have done it in a city and metro area much smaller than that which the Pickles can draw from. 

As far as West Coast League operations are concerned, the organization that impresses me is that of the Victoria HarbourCats. No, there's not a lot of "whimsy" on display at Royal Athletic Park, but talk about a team that's created an impressive following. Over the course of seven seasons, the HarbourCats have built-up their average attendance to over 2,300 fans per game, which - again - is pretty amazing given the fact that the city and metro area population in the market is a fraction the size of that which exists in Portland.

But, when it comes to identifying collegiate summer baseball's "equivalent of the St. Paul Saints", the closest you're going to find are the Madison Mallards. In 2001, their inaugural season in the Northwoods League , they finished fourth in attendance, drawing just 1,039 fans per game. In their second season, the 1,973 fans per game that they averaged was good enough to lead the league in attendance. Since earning that honor in 2002, the Mallards have yet to cede the Northwoods League attendance crown to any other ball club. In the 2003 and 2004 seasons, the Mallards drew over 4,400 fans per game. In 2005, they exceeded 5,000 fans per game, pulling in an average crowd of 5,738. The 2006 Northwoods League season saw the Mallards average crowd size rise to 6,056. Over 11 of the next 13 seasons, the Mallards' attendance would exceed 6,000 fans per game. The high mark over the past 13 seasons was 2015's 6,358 fans per game. The "low" was an average of 5,884 in 2010. In all, the Madison Mallards have averaged 5,474 fans per game over their 19 years of existence. On the field, the Mallards have won four division titles, qualified for the playoffs eight times, advanced to the Northwoods League Championship Series on four occasions, and won the league championship twice. Any way you slice it, that's impressive.

I'm not ready to label them that either.

You're pretty good at parsing language, so it's worth pointing out that I merely said the "Portland Pickles are evolving into the West Coast equivalent of the St. Paul Saints," not that they are, definitely, absolutely, THE west coast equivalent. Those words matter, especially when you're trying to undercut a point that this organization -- yes, even at the mere "grand total of four seasons" -- is doing things pretty well. As someone who grew up in Minnesota during the early days of the Saints and watched the Pickles evolve in Portland, I can see some early parallels in how they're building their organizations in their markets. 

Also, I wouldn't dismiss the Portland market's size as some disqualifier. Portland's a NBA and soccer town with big-league baseball aspirations. AAA baseball was considered surplus to the needs of the market a decade ago, yet there's still a fondness for the swashbuckling nature of the old Portland Mavericks. There's a lot more going on there for sports entertainment. I remember receiving the press release about the Portland Pickles' launch and thinking it was a joke. So launching a wood-bat collegiate league in that city and making it a draw, in my mind is a far more impressive feat than thriving in places like Madison or Savannah -- minor league markets where you're probably the only game in town.  

1 hour ago, monkeypower said:

 

I don't know if I fully explained the difference because I didn't know you didn't know.

 

Independent league baseball is semi-pro baseball. It's professional baseball, just leagues not affiliated with the MLB or MiLB.

 

Summer Collegiate wood bat leagues are for college players to continue to play baseball over the summer. They are amateur leagues made up of college players who are recruited and signed by the wood bat teams, but are not paid because of college eligibility reasons. 

 

 

I think it's still just a weird move considering how these summer leagues typically work. I don't know how big of a draw it is for players to sign with a "minor league" summer team that only plays exhibition games when there are, according to the summer collegiate baseball Wikipedia page, 64 other leagues across North America. I understand not everybody's going to want to/can move away just to play baseball for a summer, but the added bonus of potentially making the Pickles roster isn't really a bonus when players don't really tryout to play for summer teams.

Here’s my theory, which I’m totally winging: it’s possible the Pickles had more interested local players than roster spots and found a creative solution to the problem that doubles as a novel branding and merchandising opportunity. 
 

The other thing to know about the Pickles: they’re remarkably good at what they do. I spent  the past 10 years in Portland — closer to the Hillsboro Hops side of town, so I never made it out to a Pickles game. That’s one of my big regrets after leaving. Everyone I know whose attended a game raves about it; fun, inexpensive, family friendly but with decent local food and a diverse beer selection. 
 

They’re somehow lowbrow and professional at the same time and it just seems to work. 
 

Knowing that, taking a flier on a so-called “farm team” with a cute name and all local players doesn’t seem too out of character.

12 minutes ago, monkeypower said:

 

Summer collegiate wood bat is different than independent minor league though...

 

Yeah technically, any baseball team that isn't in the MLB or the MiLB is "independent" and "unaffiliated", but that's not what independent, unaffiliated baseball means. Independent, unaffiliated baseball is semi-pro baseball. The West Coast League isn't an independent minor league, it's a summer collegiate wood bat league. And since the Pickles are a summer collegiate wood bat team, they can't even be a professional team or else any players attending an American college couldn't play for them.

 

Back to the original topic, what's the point of the Gherkins? Is there really a need for a summer collegiate team to have farm team of sorts, especially when they are going to be playing out of the same stadium at the same time? I don't really understand the thought process here. 

I get the difference now. Thanks for taking the effort to educate me. 

As for the Gherkins, I think it's just a novelty. Another opportunity to watch inexpensive baseball, but with primarily local talent, and the added bonus that they could make the Pickles roster. It's something to fill out a summer schedule and put some people in seats when the Pickles are out of town. Add to it the novelty branding, and it's nothing more than a brand extension. 

4 minutes ago, Brian in Boston said:

Unless something has changed with the Portland Pickles' operation, the team is not an independent, unaffiliated minor league franchise. Rather, the Pickles are a collegiate summer baseball team that competes in the summer wood bat West Coast League.

So, it would appear that one collegiate summer baseball team has elected to operate another collegiate summer baseball team as an "official farm affiliate". Said affiliate will be operating in the same market... out of the same facility... playing a schedule comprised, at least in part, of games against teams from the same league as the parent club.

Interesting.   

Nothing has changed, and the words I used were exactly what I meant. The terms "independent, unaffiliated" is not to say it's some random barnstorming franchise, but a professional club that isn't an affiliate of a Major League Baseball franchise. Therefore "independent" and "unaffliated." 

As such, the West Coast League is an independent minor league — as in, independent of Major League Baseball, in much the same way as the league in which the Saints play: the American Association of Independent Professional Baseball. 

But you're right, what the Pickles have done here is create another wood-bat collegiate team, but one that operates more as a barnstorming developmental club made up of primarily local players vying for the opportunity to suit up for the Pickles. They'll play other clubs in the same league, but I don't get the sense that they're competing in the league. Just playing to develop up-and-coming talent. 

The Portland Pickles, the independent minor league baseball team in Portland, Oregon, today announced the formation of a collegiate wood-bat farm team they're calling the Portland Gherkins. It's so ridiculous and fantastic and I love everything about it. 

https://www.portlandpicklesbaseball.com/news/2019/12/10/press-release-pickles-baseball-announce-farm-team-the-portland-gherkins

Here's my bold, outlandish statement about this club: The Portland Pickles are evolving into the West Coast equivalent of the St. Paul Saints. An unaffiliated minor league franchise run so professionally, and with such whimsy, that it becomes competitive, if not preferable, to the MLB experience. 

6 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

Looks like weird shading on the back and sides of white jersey and sides of white pants. 

Is it possible that the shading just denotes a different fabric type and not an actual color change?

39 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

The exact quote was “Las Vegas or somewhere else.” That was a carefully-selected word choice, given the Raiders moving to Las Vegas.

Exactly. I wouldn't read into this as an endorsement for Las Vegas. It's just that Las Vegas is top-of-mind already in Oakland for any conversation related to relocation. The broader point was, "this happened to the Raiders, it will happen with the A's, too." 

2 minutes ago, mkg74 said:

Turn the Battlehawks logo upside down and it reads..... STL

I'll be damned. It does.

38 minutes ago, GFB said:

My knee-jerk takes:

 

As someone who cares about the helmets more than almost anything (which is where I think the original XFL did fairly well), I think St. Louis and DC have the most potential to give us a really cool helmet design. 

I don't know. I think that St. Louis one could be problematic. Certainly, you can apply the wings to either side of the helmet, but that's hardly unique anymore. And they'd probably sully it by trying to cram that sword down the middle, just like the logo.  Or worse, they'd just stick the logo as its on the side of the helmets and call it a day. 

I think that Gladiators could be wrapped to the back of the helmet, sort of like the old Michigan Panthers of the USFL. I'd like to see a Renegades helmet that employed those red eyes at the front of the helmet. The bottom third of the helmet would be blue to mimic the scarf and the top could employ some markings to illustrate the hat. 
 

I'm just spitballin' here.

11 minutes ago, pitt6pack said:

For anyone speculating that they needed to update the website, specifically having merchandise ready the day of the team names and logo releases, nothing is for sale with the new team names and logos until Saturday ...

 

https://shop.xfl.com/password

 

You'd think that's one of the more important things to have done. Capitalize on people making an impulse buy as soon as they see all the logos and such.

Yeah, they're totally giving people too much time to realize just how much they DON'T like their team's names and logos.

Someone earlier was posting in defense of the BattleHawks name. Here's my problem with it. It's not only that it's generic and uninspiring, I hate any name whose root needs to be modified to make it seem more aggressive. Adding "Battle" to the name isn't a workaround. It's a sign that the name Hawks itself doesn't work on its own.

Give Houston the Dallas colors and it's a straight up parroting of the Oilers, and I love it.

15 minutes ago, daniel75 said:

Seattle Kraken

Washington Artillery

Houston Roughnecks

New York Sentries

Dallas Night Hawks

Tampa Bay Pythons

St. Louis Aces

Los Angeles Archangels

If they go with Houston Roughnecks, and then give them Oilers colors, I may have to actually like this league. 

18 hours ago, Quillz said:

Oh, so Vince was just riding that "'Murica" wave. Got it.

I think XFL came out with that strategy at the outset when it was competing with a rival spring league. Now that the AAF is dead, I doesn't really need a gimmick to set itself apart.

The assumptions made by the Rays ownership group in this story are mind-boggling:

• They believe cutting the number of games in half will improve revenues because demand for the remaining games will increase.
• They believe this scheme could create some weird economic development symbiosis between Tampa and Montreal
• They believe it will make the team a tourist draw (from vacationing Quebekers, I presume?)
• And despite all of this, they seem to believe that the fans will somehow embrace all this. Because if they don't, the whole idea falls to pieces. 

Just mind boggling.

33 minutes ago, Wings said:

The Montreal Ex-Rays. 

Absolutely brilliant.

Beyond the physical logistics of this hair-brained scheme, how would you even start the branding discussion? You've got two cities each with legacy franchise brands. Would Montreal really support a team not called the Expos, if it came to that? This whole thing is just mind-boggling.

2 minutes ago, GDAWG said:

 

Once Tampa solves their stadium issue, MLB isn't going to expand.  They won't until Oakland solves their own stadium issues.

From the sounds of it, Oakland is on far firmer ground than they've ever been. Their waterfront ballpark plan still has skeptics, but it's gaining in public support. 

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/philmatier/article/Oakland-council-taking-its-time-wants-answers-13969521.php?psid=aQkeR

21 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

The telling thing here is that MLB is saying baseball in Tampa Bay can't work out even with a new stadium.  Yikes.

My suspicion is that neither the Rays ownership nor Major League Baseball actually expects this scenario to play out as described. It's a long and complicated scheme to solve the league's Tampa problem, bring baseball back to Montreal, and finally start Manfred's long-awaited league expansion process. 

This is so transparent, and also pretty creative.

This is just a fresh application of a club using another market as leverage for a new stadium, only this time they're hoping to do it while becoming the anti-Kroenkes.

The Rays have yet to come up with a suitable stadium situation that they can finance. So instead of threatening to leave, the come up with this completely bonkers two-city scenario in which they'd have to develop not one, BUT TWO new stadiums. When the Tampa one inevitably fails to materialize, they'll at least be able to say "we tried our best, Tampa." 

It's crazy and brilliant all at the same time.

5 minutes ago, Davidellias said:

 

Sam Cassell started off as a Houston Rocket.

To me, that's the jersey he should be remembered for wearing. Won two titles with Houston.

XFL Commissioner Oliver Luck on Tuesday gave a timeline for when the league will release branding details: 

Quote

 

"We’ll have our team colors, our team names, our team logos in January, February, March of next year." 

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/news/2018/12/11/a-pretty-easy-decision-xfl-commissioner-on-why-st.html