Ferdinand Cesarano

7 minutes ago, DCarp1231 said:

They had every chance to name the conferences USFC and XFC, but just had to keep “League” in there. For what purpose?

 

Because X doesn't stand for anything.

 

 

12 minutes ago, WideRight said:

Just going to say that from a design perspective I see the Roughnecks as a major downgrade from the Gamblers.  The logo is fine, but those uniforms were pure clown show

 

I also see that as a downgrade. And I'd say that the logo is terrible, a problem compounded by the departed Gamblers logo being in the top tier all-time.

 

Also, the nickname stinks, as opposed to the Gamblers nickname.

 

I hope the NFL makes a few more legal threats, and that the UFL wises up and changes the team's identity to the Gamblers.

3 hours ago, 4_tattoos said:

LOVB Omaha Volleyball

 

Someone finally outdid the San Diego Sockers.

17 minutes ago, Anubis2051 said:

And other teams recolored it [the Yankees' NY logo]:

 

 

Even before that, the logo was used by the football Giants.

 

 

 

Here's a shot that shows that the football Giants used not only the Yankees' NY logo, but also the NY logo of the baseball Giants.  (Alongside Vince Lombardi is Tom Landry, who is at the upper left of the previous photo.)

 

12 hours ago, Kramerica Industries said:

It's one thing you never see today, probably due to far more advanced security measures but I'm also going to assume "security measures" existed in 1976 too.

 

Not really. There were nowhere near the amount of police that would be necessary to prevent fans from storming the field.

 

This changed in the 1980 World Series in Philadelphia, when police on horseback surrounded the field before the final out, so that no one from the stands could enter the field.

 

I can sort of understand it, as the risk of injury to players and fans is significant, not to mention the threat of damage to a field. But it's still unfortunate to have lost this tradition.

 

 

17 minutes ago, the admiral said:

We could use a good field-level crowd for a World Series win again. If the Cubs had done it at Wrigley, I think we could have gotten away with it. It'd be iconic.

It would indeed be nice to see the occasional return of this type of thing. Alas, it's hard to imagine nowadays.

30 minutes ago, Kramerica Industries said:

Definitely the reaction of cultured students of baseball to storm the field and make running the bases to finish a pennant-winning walk off home run completely impossible.

 

That goes to show you how "joyless" we were.

 

That moment ranks as the absolute top one for me in my life as a fan.  It's the only sports moment that can reliably move me to tears, particularly the Phil Rizzuto call.

 

 

 

 

As I type this, I am sitting under a mounted photo of that precious moment.

 

 

 

 

By the way, in case you didn't know it, I'll mention that fans storming the field after a championship was the norm at that time.

 

 

 

 

 

54 minutes ago, MJD7 said:

Feel free to disagree, but in my experience any generalization about a group of people seems bound to be inaccurate for at least a decent amount of people in that group.

 

I don't disagree. You are correct that any generalisation is bound not to apply to some. I hedged as much as I could with words like "tend to be". Still, I can only give my experience and my impression, which are as I expressed. During the Yankees' run of championships in the late 90s and early 00s, there were so many Yankee fans who said that a season that doesn't end with a championship is a failure. The word "joyless" was mentioned earlier; someone who believes what those Yankee fans asserted is bound to be joyless, and is overlooking so much of what's fun about a season.  (One of my favourite seasons was 1985, when the Yankees didn't win. But the Yankees and the Mets were in tight pennant races all season, with both teams not eliminated until the final weekend, and the City was gripped all season by excitement over a possible Subway Series.)

 

 

54 minutes ago, MJD7 said:

There are plenty of good and bad Yankees fans out there, just as there are good and bad Red Sox fans.

 

I will admit that my dislike of the Red Sox has oulived my allegiance to the Yankeees. But I acknowledge that the Fenway Park crowd did a very honourable thing twice, when they gave big ovations to Reggie Jackson and to Derek Jeter in each player's final at-bat at that park. I am all for partisanship; but knowledgable fans must be willing to look past that sometimes. (And I am aware that the Yankee Stadium crowd cheered David Ortiz in his last appearance there; but I still doubt that they'd do that during a player's career the way the Yankee fans of the past did for Seaver.)

 

 

54 minutes ago, MJD7 said:

I honestly can’t fathom ditching my team allegiance because of a perception of how other fans behave, even if I perceived them to be the majority.

 

I should be clear that I didn't really do that.  I retired from following current baseball (except for the uniforms) after 1996, becoming a purely historical fan, so I wasn't rooting for anyone anymore.  I still love my 1970s and 1980s Yankees, and will always consider 1976 to 1981 to be the pinnacle of baseball.  But I found that I had less and less in common with the Yankee fans around me, and I didn't want to be associated with what I percieved as an ugly turn (and this was well before the racial abuse that the Yankee fans directed at that guy from the White Sox last year).  I think if I had been a kid in 2002 instead of 1972, I would not have been drawn to being a Yankee fan.

 

 

54 minutes ago, MJD7 said:

General attitudes of fans can even be shown to change, as evidenced by Phillies fans’ eventual re-embrace of Trea Turner, even when the results weren’t showing early this past season (although, if you say you haven’t been following baseball since ‘96, I guess you may be unaware of that situation). 

 

I am indeed unaware of that.  But I do know that Phillies fans for the longest time gave Mike Schmidt a terrible time, even as he was highly respected around the National League.  It wasn't until very late in Schmidt's career that he became accepted by Phillies fans.  This parallels the experience of Mickey Mantle with Yankee fans; up until the big home run chase with Mantle and Roger Maris during the 1961 season, Mantle was just as likely to be booed as cheered by Yankee fans.  (This was before my time, so I can't really explain it, apart from people being irrationally resentful of the player who replaced Joe DiMaggio. However, Bobby Murcer fell far shorter in replacing Mantle than Mantle did in replacing DiMaggio; yet Murcer was one of the most beloved players for the Yankee fans of my era.)

39 minutes ago, infrared41 said:

This post would have been way more entertaining in Esperanto.

 

With regard to Kekich and Peterson, were the kids "willing participants" as well? What say the "scholars of baseball" on that part of the "phony scandal?" 

 

I'm not "too young to know better" and the whole family swap thing was pretty ed up. Even for the swinging 70s.

 

Note that kids are never willing participants when their parents break up. But that certainly doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with divorcing. If Kekich's and Peterson's marriages had ended, and then each of those guys went on to be with other people, no one would have said anything about it, as that's the result of most marriages. The fact that each one ended up with the former wife of the other makes the situation no different.

 

What's more, while Kekich's relationship with Peterson's former wife lasted only a few years, Peterson and Kekich's former wife Susanne are (as far as I know) still together. And I believe that they had more kids together, so the kids that Susanne had had with Kekich had a nice big family to grow up with. It's a happy story ultimately.

 

Kaj ĉio pli distras en Esperanto.

11 minutes ago, coco1997 said:

Some ideas a Yankees City Connect set could draw from:

 

 

There's an idea for a throwback that I hadn't considered!  While I don't go for coloured jerseys or coloured pants from an aesthetic standpoint (a stance which makes my admiration for the White Sox' City Connect uniform something that surprises even me), this is a legitimate uniform from the team's history.

 

2 hours ago, FiddySicks said:

 

Because I am comfortable with being a blowhard, I am not bothered if someone thinks my account is wanky. The important thing is that it is completely accurate.

 

 

1 hour ago, monkeypower said:

4 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

with an inconsistent Fritz Peterson and the occasionally brilliant Mike Kekich (the latter two of whom were involved in a phony "scandal" when aspects of their private lives were reported on and unjustly mocked).

 

You're just going to drop that in there partway through your manifesto? I also think swapping wives and subsequently families is something that is going to get some level of mocking and questioning.

 

The two of them were also the ones that made it public in the first place.

 

Surely you don't think that my post should have been even longer! I originally had some sentences there elaborating on the matter, but I took them out so as to stick to the main point.  Believe it or not, what you got was the short version!

 

Anyway, Peterson and Kekich made their arrangment public only because they knew that it was going to be written about.  And it deserves no mocking, as everyone involved was doing it willingly.

 

  

1 hour ago, the admiral said:

Joyless know-it-all Yankee fans still exist; they all moved to Jersey and called Francesa's show. Thank God the rest of them didn't all come here.

 

First of all, the Yankee fans of my era were far from "joyless".  We took great pleasure in our vast knowledge; even better, we used it to educate anyone who asked (and sometimes people who didn't ask).

 

Secondly, the Francesa-type fan is representative of the latter-day boor, not of the 1970s-era erudite baseball scholar.

 

 

On more substantive matters:

 

15 hours ago, schlim said:

I think we can stop with the sanctity of the Yankees uniforms. Classics yes, but there's an ad patch on them

 

That uncharacteristic move was noted.

 

19 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

the Yankees do so much right in the realm of uniforms . . .  In light of this excellent record, it's a pity that they succumbed to the uniform advertisement.

 

 

15 hours ago, schlim said:

so the hand wringing over an alternate jersey is closing the barn doors at this point.

 

Logic fail. It does not follow at all that, because the Yankees have done one misstep that harms their otherwise-classic uniforms, they should therefore do more such things. 

 

I do not minimise the abomination of an ad patch on the Yankees' uniforms. Indeed, that team deserves more criticism over the advertisement than does any other team, precisely because of the team's other good stances. But having made that error, the Yankees should definitely not give up on everything that makes their uniforms great, namely, having only white at home and grey on the road, having one cap, and having no player names.

 

15 hours ago, schlim said:

Plus, they've worn every mother's day, little league, camoflauge and other assorted merchandise MLB has offered over the years.

 

This, too, is a valid critique. Yet to follow this critique with the assertion that they should do more of that sort of thing is incoherent.

 

The one thing that should not be off the table is the one thing that the Yankees have almost never done: throwbacks. (They did it once at Fenway Park.) While delving into their own history would produce uniforms that are either very similar to their current uniform or are not interesting (such as the blank pinstripe jersey from the 1920s), they could do what the Royals do and wear Negro League uniforms.  The Black Yankees are best known for using this uniform:

 

 

 

 

Ebbets Field Flannels already sells the jersey.

 

 

7 hours ago, the admiral said:

15 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

Yankee fans in my day had a  scholarly bent

 

Yeah, bent up your own ass, what a stupid post

 

Says the guy who's too young to know better.

 

When I started watching baseball and became a Yankee fan, it was the early 1970s, and being a Yankee fan was definitely not cool. The glow of the Mets' 1969 World Championship was still everywhere; and this was only exacerbated by the team's late-season comeback in 1973 to win the division and win another pennant, before taking the mighty Oakland A's to seven games in that year's World Series.

 

At that time, the Yankees were strictly passé. They were the team best known for hyping guys who turned out to be disappointments, guys such as Rusty Torres and Frank Tepedino. Even the supposed superstar, Bobby Murcer, who was indeed a quality player, was not the generational talent that the team had been touting, and would never equal his one great season.

 

The lone actual star on that team, Thurman Munson, had yet to blossom, while the consistent and underrated Roy White was most often overlooked.

 

The Mets were dazzling with their stellar starting rotation of Tom Seaver, Jerry Koosman, and later Jon Matlack; by contrast, the Yankees were trudging along with a fading Mel Stottlemyre, together with an inconsistent Fritz Peterson and the occasionally brilliant Mike Kekich (the latter two of whom were involved in a phony "scandal" when aspects of their private lives were reported on and unjustly mocked).

 

In this environment, the Met fans were the know-nothing trend-followers, and we Yankee fans were, yes, the scholars. We were the ones who were actually familiar with the players and the teams from both leagues. When the Mets would acquire a new player, the Met fans at my school would have to ask us — the Yankee fans, and therefore the serious baseball fans — about that player. When a Met fan was about to go to a game, that Met fan would ask us for a rundown of the opposition. For we were the Yankee fans, the keepers of the knowledge.

 

Then the Lean Years ended, and we Yankee fans got our championship teams. Still, immediately thereafter, we were knocked down again by having no World Championships in the entire 1980s, during which time the Mets once again became the media darlings — and, therefore, once again became the go-to team for the empty-headed know-nothings. And so for a second time, now as an adult, I had the experience of my Met-fan friends asking me for information on new acquisitions, on call-ups, and on opposing players.

 

I retired from following current baseball after 1996, when the Yankees were nice enough to play me out with a championship. So I watched the Yankees' resurgence after that as an outsider. And what became clear to me was that the nature of Yankee fans had altered radically. While Yankee fans of my generation were arrogantly haughty, the Yankee fans of the latter generation were just loutish.

 

In the 1970s, Yankee fans would cheer for many great opposing players. Amongst the opposing players who always got great receptions at Yankee Stadium were Brooks Robinson, Andre Thornton, and Rod Carew.  This recalls the stories of Dodger fans at Ebbets Field always cheering for Stan Musial. 

 

The character of Yankee fans of my generation can be illustrated by two events involving Tom Seaver. First, after Seaver was traded from the Mets in June of 1977, his first appearance in New York came a few weeks later at the All-Star Game at Yankee Stadium. His introduction before the game elicited the biggest ovation of the night, bigger than that for the several Yankee players in the game, or for Yankee manager Billy Martin, who was managing the American League.

 

The second event came in August of 1985, when Seaver faced the Yankees at the Stadium going for his 300th career victory. During that game, something remarkable happened: the crowd turned. This had happened for individual moments, for instance, when Reggie Jackson made his first appearance back at the Stadium after signing with the Angels, and was cheered for homering against Ron Guidry. But for the first and only time in history, an entire packed Yankee Stadium turned for the whole game, rooting against the Yankees as they cheered for Seaver. After Seaver got his complete-game victory, the capacity crowd stood and roared, and demanded a curtain call.

 

This is what my kind of Yankee fandom had been about. Seaver, unlike Jackson, was not a former Yankee. Rather, he was a former Met. Yet Yankee fans, being at that time the epitome of great and knowledgeable baseball fans, ignored petty partisanship to pay appropriate respect to greatness.

 

There is a profound difference between the Yankee fans of my day and those of the current day. If the Seaver scenarios had played out at any time after 2000, the Yankee fans of today would certainly have booed a longtime Met, rather than cheer a baseball hero.

1 hour ago, coco1997 said:

How does everyone here feel about the Yankees' apparent decision to not participate in the City Connect program? I get that the team has been historically committed to the "sanctity" of their brand, but still I think they could do something tasteful and within the parameters of their identity that would make most Yankees fans happy. I don't think anyone's suggesting they wear magenta and seafoam green like the Padres. 

 

While I like some of the City Connect designs (the Angels, the Diamondbacks, and, despite myself, the White Sox), it feels very good to know that a team is just refusing to participate in that.

 

I grew up a Yankee fan, but I no longer identify as one, because Yankee fans in my day had a  scholarly bent, while today's Yankee fans tend toward the stupid and goonish. But I continue to admire the fact that the Yankees do so much right in the realm of uniforms. One home uniform (white); one road uniform (grey); no coloured jerseys; no player names; one cap; and now no City Connect uniform to go with having had no Turn Ahead the Clock uniform.  In light of this excellent record, it's a pity that they succumbed to the uniform advertisement.  (I suppose that one could also cite the Nike swoosh, but the team didn't really have a choice on that.)

26 minutes ago, throwuascenario said:

On 11/28/2023 at 6:32 PM, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

If they wanted to take something good from soccer, then they should have borrowed the acknowledgement that a draw is a legitimate result. A regular-season game tied after nine innings should go into the books as a draw; save the extra innings for playoff games that have to have a winner.

 

I completely disagree. I can't stand ties. You play the game to determine a winner. To not do so is the definition of a failure. I hate that the NFL has ties and think that they should give refunds on tickets to those that attend one.

 

You play the season to determine a champion. In order to do that, every single game does not need a winner. This is truest of all in the sport with the most games in its season.

 

Even though I no longer have time to follow soccer, as I did for about fifteen years, the one piece of wisdom that I retain from that experience is an understanding of the validity of a draw.  Overtime should be strictly for playoffs in all sports.

3 hours ago, CS85 said:

I'm assuming they'd also have to acquire the UFL trademarks and such.  It's a poor name for a league, IMO, but whatever.

 

Not only is UFL a poor name in its own right, but it's a significant step down from one of the existing names, the USFL.  The USFL name has tremendous recognition, and enjoys overwhelmingly positive associations.  To just toss away this brand equity is to create a new problem where one did not previously exist.

 

The 2024 season should rightfully be presented as the third season of the current version of the USFL, and the league's sixth season overall.

 

 

  

3 hours ago, CS85 said:

I still think they should go with LOAF:  League of Alternative Football,

 

If they can get a TV deal in Canada, then it could be:  Liaison of Inter-National Television; League of American Football, or . . .

 

LINT LOAF.

 

 

23 minutes ago, McCall said:

I'm not big on them dropping Orlando. They have a great history of spring football.

 

Who owns the AAF's IP? It would be nice if a purchase of the name "Orlando Apollos" could have been arranged. (Even if not for use right now, but maybe for a year or two down the line, if things go well.)

3 hours ago, GDAWG said:

Home run style "knockout round" to determine the winner after 9 innings.....interesting.

 

I am always in favour of independent leagues. So my first reaction was: good for this team for starting up.

 

But a home run derby to decide games is absolutely embarrassing. Indeed, I thought that the post mentioning that was a joke mocking the league.  To know that this is really the rule is nothing short of shocking. How any baseball fan could approve of this is far, far beyond my understanding.

 

I'm not fundamentally against alterations of the rules, even radical ones. But this is bad. If they wanted to take something good from soccer, then they should have borrowed the acknowledgement that a draw is a legitimate result. A regular-season game tied after nine innings should go into the books as a draw; save the extra innings for playoff games that have to have a winner.

 

This is a case where the flaw is so big that it overshadows everything else. Very disappointing.

On 11/21/2023 at 11:44 PM, BBTV said:

I don’t think it’s even remotely possible but it’d be cool for the A’s to play a gap season in Phila

 

The Connie Mack statue is still there.

 

 

 

It was an excellent game, which I heard on the radio.  (I prefer listening on radio; I do that for Super Bowls, also.  Listening also spares me from seeing the horrible monochrome uniforms that so many teams are using, such as Montreal in this game.)

 

I will admit that I am pretty disappointed that Toronto didn't make the Grey Cup, as that team had the "team of destiny" feel all season, with quarterback Chad Kelly (nephew of Jim Kelly) winning the MOP award, and running back A.J. Ouellette (who is almost as small as Joe Morris) enjoying a breakout season with more than 1000 rushing yards.  The Argos' decisive loss to Montreal last week was unfortunate. 

 

Still, Montreal's comeback in the Grey Cup game was thrilling.

2 hours ago, AJM said:

 

 

Very nice. The piping is beautiful.

 

If the only versions of this uniform were the two on the right, this would be an even better set.

 

And if the road grey had a front number (preferably in contrasting colours) and if it used the same hat as the home  uniform, then this set would be just about perfect.

25 minutes ago, 4_tattoos said:

It's a small league that needs to grow. It can't be in every significant lacrosse market on day one. If they went all in on being a NYC based team lacrosse fans in Albany, Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, etc. could start tuning out the PLL. They're all gonna have to share Atlas for now.

 

Yes, I guess that's a good point, as it pertains not only to New York, but also to California and Maryland.

1 minute ago, 4_tattoos said:

4 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

I hope that the PLL doesn't try to make "New York" stand for the state

 

They are

 

Egad. Terrible.

2 minutes ago, 4_tattoos said:

We could realistically see the Lizards brand return as the league grows. Atlas represent the entire state of New York as far as I can tell from PLL's hype material. Years from down the line,  Atlas could settle in Albany while the league brings in a new  Lizards team in Long Island.

 

I hope that the PLL doesn't try to make "New York" stand for the state, a move not seen since the World Team Tennis team the New York Buzz, which played in varous upstate locales including Albany.

 

 

 

 

Still, I'd love to see the Lizards return.  If the Atlas do settle upstate, and the Lizards come back in the New York City / Long Island area, then I hope the league realises that Albany Atlas is a better name.

23 hours ago, 4_tattoos said:

On 11/14/2023 at 2:37 PM, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

Almost as bad is overlooking the Bayhawks.

I'm a homer when it comes to sports. I supported the Bayhawks in MLL because they were the team closest to home, but that name sucked. A ripoff of the Seattle Seahawks branding.

 

Well, it's true that Bayhawks as a name is inherently kind of cheesy. So is Seahawks! But the name acquired gravitas with all those championships.  And the logo is outstanding.

 

 

23 hours ago, 4_tattoos said:

With the Whipsnakes being the PLL's first champion, there was no way they would allow that club to change [its] name.

 

The Bayhawks were champions six times!  For this league to have the ability to use that historically significant name with only positive associations, yet to choose not to use it in favour of the name of a new team that has won one championship, this is extremely hard to understand.

 

 

 

On 11/14/2023 at 4:20 PM, MJWalker45 said:

The new Atlas logo is a downgrade.

 

I disagree with that.  The simplified bull is much more attractive than the previous busier version.

 

The look of the Atlas's logos is pretty good. The roundel is excellent, and the NY that makes use of the bull horns is clever (even if the connection between a bull and the Greek god Atlas is a bit of a mystery).

 

 

On the other hand, a singular name is always amateurish.  We had the Orlando Apollos; we could have had the New York Atlases.

 

Also, it's worth emphasising the foolishness of leaving unused yet another great and beloved identity, that of the Lizards.  And in this case, unlike that of the Bayhawks, it's a great name in its own right, as well as being an identity that acquired tremendous meaning on account of a great history.

 

1 hour ago, throwuascenario said:

Isn't there being 1 sleeve stripe instead of 2 and the number font being very slightly different the only differences between the two? I don't see how you can look at that and call it classy and then look at their regular whites and act like they're garbage. They're extremely similar.

 

The Jets' regular uniforms are not "extremely similar" to their throwbacks! The current uniform is the worst one in their history, while the throwback uniform is the best one.  

 

The current uniform's flaws are numerous and serious. First, the current helmet logo is absolutely nothing. It has none of the personality of the (admittedly flawed) one that it replaced, the original logo that was brought back in the late 1990s. And it has none of the style of the throwback helmet logo, the wordmark with the jet tail.

 

Second, the current uniform includes both a black jersey and black pants. Completely inappropriate.

 

Third, the "New York" on the front of the jersey is comical. It shouldn't be there at all; but, if it's going to be there, it should be about a quarter of the size.

 

Finally, the swooshes that come in from the sleeve are not sleeve stripes. They're trash derived from that Denver Broncos uniform that was the superspreader event for bad design.

 

If you want a uniform that is similar to this:

 

 

...then you would have to cite this:

 

 

...with the black outline on the numbers, the stripes, and the helmet logo, and the use of green pants with the white jersey.  That's a significant downgrade from the team's best look, but it is definitely similar.

Whereas, the current look is nowhere near the best look.

 

40 minutes ago, Walk-Off said:

So this version of the AFL will launch with a Nashville Kats team and a Georgia Force team, huh?  I can remember when the original AFL's original Nashville Kats moved to Atlanta and became the first version of the Georgia Force.

 

Yes, but then the Kats came back a few years later, in one of those cheesy Cleveland Browns deals that spits in the eye of history, and were in the league alongside the Force.

2 minutes ago, Fowler said:

Boston Cannons 

California Redwoods

Carolina Chaos

Denver Outlaws 

Maryland Whipsnakes 

New York Atlas

Philadelphia Waterdogs

Utah Archers 

 

 

If the league now has access to the old MLL names, then it's baffling why the New York Lizards' name and excellent logo were not revived.

 

 

 

Almost as bad is overlooking the Bayhawks.

 

 

 

 

These names are synonymous with pro lacrosse, having had a Yankees / Red Sox - style rivalry in the MLL.

 

 

Those complaints aside, I am pleased to see the return of a nice old UFL name, the California Redwoods.