bosrs1

57 minutes ago, WSU151 said:

 

I think it was to create urgency for the city to approve rather than getting a better deal financially.  If the city didn't approve it this summer, it could be another year before it was approved.  

That and trying to get them to hone in on Howard Terminal. The city still wants them to consider, and choose, the Coliseum site. 

23 minutes ago, rams80 said:

In fairness to the Penguins, the old Igloo was really in bad shape by that point.

I mean the Coliseum is literally falling apart. So it's not like the A's aren't justified in playing hardball with Oakland. Particularly since they're not asking the city to build the stadium or pay for it outright.  Especially given this is year 26 of their stadium search. 

3 hours ago, Sodboy13 said:

The AHL had some Reel Line Mints news today, announcing the divisions will be a 9-team Pacific, 7 in the Central, 8 in the Atlantic, and 7 in the North for 2021-22. They also announced they will finally achieve a league-wide standard of a 72-game season... for 2022-23. For next season, the special snowflakes in the Pacific get a 68-game schedule, while each team in the rest of the league gets to choose how many games it would like to play; either 72 or 76. This means that the Central Division will have three teams playing 76 games and the other four playing 72, so if you liked points percentage before, hoo-boy, what a treat!

 

If the NHL is a garage league, the AHL is an attic-above-the-garage league.

Hey at least they finally got around to forcing the Pacific to play as many games as the rest of the league, and standardized the rest down to 72. It's a step in the right direction if nothing else. 

27 minutes ago, TBGKon said:

Being second tenant to the Sharks might've been a downside.  At the Oracle, they were primary tenant so first dibs on dates.

Bingo. Plus if you're able to swindle your current land lord for a new arena (which frankly was what they got as nothing but the outer shell of the old Coliseum Arena survived the rebuild into the New Arena in Oakland), why would you give that up to go be second tenant in a now older and somewhat simpler arena that was built primarily for hockey in San Jose? Not to say it was the right choice, obviously the "new" arena in Oakland was only good enough to keep the Warriors for a little more than 20 years before they bolted anyway.  

2 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

 

Given all the TV deal stuff that I’ve detailed earlier and Lurie’s willingness to loan money to the local group, I was pretty sure that letting the Giants actually move (even to Santa Clara County) was never in the cards. Lurie made it clear in statements that public funding measures for stadiums were unpopular with Bay Area voters, with two SF referendums failing along with the Santa Clara County and San José ones. Since SF business folk didn’t take the bleeping hint about Lurie’s goals, he went to the desperate folks in Tampa Bay to really deliver his message
 

Bob Lurie really knew how to play some suckers. He knew how to stir up a storm. Both Santa Clara/San José politicians (e.g., Mayor Susan Hammer) and the desperate St. Pete folks were the perfect marks for his plan to give the Giants good local ownership to solve the Candlescheisse problem. 

 

You could even argue that he played Haas with the San José deal, even though Haas was arguably trying to get one-up on him.

 

Indeed. The A’s got complacent and missed the boat to gain even a slight edge in the market. 
 

That post is gonna need a bunch of primary source literature, which will be quite the dive.

Eh I've never bought the argument that the Haas family were trying to play the Giants. Even if the Giants had moved to San Jose I think it's pretty certain they still would have had more drawing potential from SF than the A's would have had. You saw a microcosm of that with the Niners when they moved all but to San Jose and it having no impact positively on the Raiders in Oakland. Sure the dynamics would have been a little different given it's baseball and not football. But fact is East Bay teams other than the Warriors (who were east bay only in location not in practice) have never had much appeal in the city proper. Or anywhere else in the Bay Area for that matter. Other than a few unsustainable years at the close of the 80's, the A's were always second fiddle when on even and even superior footing stadium wise to the Giants. And a San Jose Giants team in a new ballpark would have still had a leg up on the A's all these years financially (maybe even more so not having to pay off a ballpark presuming San Jose would have provided some form of public assistance on an SJ ballpark). And the Giants would still have had the lion share of the draw for most of the last 30 years both in person and on TV due to San Jose being primarily a Giants market even before they had the territorial rights to it (I grew up in the South Bay when the A's were at their absolute peak as a franchise during the Bash Bros. era, and outside my family I didn't need any hands to count how many A's fans I knew). 

1 minute ago, FiddySicks said:

This is pretty much it. Sucks for the A’s, but they basically made their own bed on this one. They had a full decade to submit the paperwork returning the rights to them, and just never did

Worst part, came out very recently that the Giants apparently had no interest in moving to St. Petersburg, or the South Bay for that matter. Which means all of the A's efforts initially to help them stay in the Bay Area by offering to forego the rights on Santa Clara County... were really even more wasted than we already knew.

https://newballpark.org/2021/06/02/ghost-of-blue-ribbon-panel-speaks-out-in-favor-of-the-coliseum/

I mean again, I'm in awe of how much the Giants then owners played everyone. But again, the A's allowed themselves to be played, and then as you say didn't move to rectify it when it became clear the Giants were full of :censored: about moving to the South Bay. 

3 hours ago, Skycast said:

 

Same here, I’ve been hoping that if the CFL and XFL merge the majority of CFL rules stay, but the XFL PAT rules added a great element of strategy to things. I dug them as well.

 

Not sure if I read it here or elsewhere, but saw someone mention that all these spring leagues (AAF, XFL, now USFL) should just quit trying to go it alone, pool their money and resources and make a go at it together. Certainly would have deeper coffers and a better chance to survive that way.

That's been one of the biggest head scratchers with these alternate football leagues. Rather than pooling resources and putting something together with all of those resources that might have a chance of surviving, they keep coming at it separately completely under capitalized, splitting interest in a scattershot group of cities... and seem shocked when they run out of cash a year in. Rinse and repeat... You put the money that was blown on AAF, XFL 2.0, XFL 2.1 and USFL, and they'd likely have had a great league. 

Same could be said for minor league soccer for that matter. At least there, there's a somewhat established league with USL. But rather than join up and support it you get numbskulls like the guys hemorrhaging money on NISA. And now MLS is going to be throwing their hat in the ring just to further fragment the Division 3 level. 

28 minutes ago, WideRight said:

29 minutes ago, WideRight said:

Only because the XFL's Seattle team drew very well, so there may simply be a good portion of the Seattle fanbase who are Seahawk fans but don't care about the Mariners.   The AAF was predicated on the fact that a large number of people polled basically say they follow football and no other sport (I follow football and soccer, but not baseball, NBA or NHL, so I likely fit in this group) and that group may be large enough to support a USFL in areas where it is a dominant feeling. 

 

I agree, avoiding MLB cities may be as important as avoiding NFL cities, perhaps more, but there may be some outliers where spring football can draw well.  If we look at the AAF and XFL 2.0, I think we saw this in places like Seattle, San Diego, DC, Houston, and St. Louis.  

 

 

Yeah I think with Seattle it's just a case of them being a split fanbase type thing where it's Mariners fans and Seahawks fans with less overlap, same likely in Houston. San Diego and St. Louis were obvious "eff yous" to the NFL for cities recently screwed out of their football teams and no real replacement to root for. San Diego now has the added benefit of a beautiful new stadium to use as a draw as well replacing the decaying SDCCU Stadium. DC I've got no explanation for. 

22 minutes ago, GDAWG said:

The CFL-XFL thing has a lot of issues to be hammered out.  Die hard fans of Canadian football don't want the XFL to ruin their game.  

Honestly the XFL would do well to adopt as much of the CFL's rule set on American sized fields as possible if they want to jump interest. CFL football is IMO far more exciting form of football. And it helps off set some of the deficiencies in the overall quality of the players. 

3 hours ago, Skycast said:

Here we go again...man, I’d love to see the return of these old brands updated for today with some entertaining football, but obviously another long shot.

 

https://www.foxsports.com/presspass/latest-news/2021/06/03/united-states-football-league-returns-2022

 

https://www.foxsports.com/watch/1904371779924

So which lucky cities do we think will get teams? I'm thinking San Diego might be in the loop this time with a right sized brand new stadium opening in fall 2022 that will be in need of tenants to help pay for its construction cost.  Not to mention it's a largely blank NFL market right now with the Chargers gone and having scorched the earth behind them. 

18 hours ago, waltere said:

I may be wrong, but isn't the case with MLS that their preferred option is an SSS, but they'll allow otherwise as long as there's ownership crossover between the team and the stadium, because it's about not having their teams be tenants of somebody else. Hence how Arthur Blank's Atlanta FC are allowed to share Megatron's butthole with the Falcons, NYCFC sharing with the Yankees, and I assume the Sounders must therefore share owners with the Seahawks.

I'm not even sure it's ownership cross over so much as its control of their revenues. In so many rental situations the team has to split revenue with the landlord which is why rentals are usually not preferred.  But there are exceptions.

Also shocked no one remembered the longest such non-SSS situation in the league up in New England. 

50 minutes ago, the admiral said:

 

If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle. It wouldn't be cramped if they hadn't built it where they built it, but the waterfront was the point. It's great. I just wish the team could give up the ghost on trying to sell the naming rights and call it Willie Mays Field. 

 

Candlestick was bad for the Giants but a lot better for the 49ers than Lego Stadium has been. They really should have built a new stadium on that parcel and barnstormed around the Bay for a few years till it was ready (Stanford, Berkeley, Oakland, aforementioned Willie Mays Field). 

Nah, the Candlestick site sucked. Coldest place in California in mid-summer you could ever watch a night game. That was the one thing that's ok with the move. Yes they hemmed themselves in and built a tiny, cramped and dreary ballpark by modern standards. But the location alone was miles better than Candlestick, and about 15 degrees warmer any given summer night. 

2 hours ago, TBGKon said:

True, but Inter Miami build this on the site of old Lockhart Stadium in Fort Lauderdale, but still wants their own stadium in Miami proper.

 

What's wrong with that stadium that they want to bail on it already?

On 6/1/2021 at 3:00 PM, GDAWG said:

 

Oracle Park is a beautiful stadium.  Better than that monstrosity the Rangers are playing.  

Honestly I've always felt Oracle is overrated. If it hadn't been built on the water it's an otherwise cramped and somewhat pedestrian park. I went to Coors Field for the first time recently and was shocked how similar they feel, just with Coors being bigger, better sightlined and more spacious (and thus better IMO). That said, Oracle is still a nice park, and it's far and away better than it's nearest competitor across the Bay. 

And yes it's better than the Rangers new Paul Bunyan sized grill. 

2 hours ago, dont care said:

So that means even more water available for Vegas, I fail to see what your argument is?

Not really. California's piece of the water rights to the Colorado River will still be utilized due to CA's own growing need and it's agricultural needs. And as they are senior to Nevada and Arizona's, California will continue to take priority. That's not going away even if CA takes some pressure off the water system in coming years from the cities from desal.  

3 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

If anything, the Tampa Bay threat was the best thing that could’ve ever happened for the Giants.

 

Hear me out, without the deal from the Naimoli group, the local group doesn’t by the team. No local group, no Bonds. No Bonds, no resurgence. No resurgence, no new stadium in China Basin.
 

That stadium (financed privately and with back door subsidies) made the domination of the Giants possible in that market, since the stadium was now a destination instead of a monument to Horace Stoneham’s immense stupidity. Without a “destination” park, the A’s fell behind for good. Add on the A’s failure to sustain success or make a big splash in free agency (like Bonds) and it’s no wonder why they fell behind.

I don't think you'll find anyone who disagrees with that assessment. The Giants as they exist today are a direct result of that near move to what is now Tropicana Field. 

Just now, dont care said:

Vegas (and the rest of the states that tap from lake Meade) have made vast improvements in water conservation and recycling. If they do run out it won’t be due to water usage but instead massive drought but by then the whole world would be ending because nothing would be getting water in the entire country.

Speak for yourself. We've just opened a giant desal plant near San Diego and have a couple more planned for the area. SoCal may be in the near desert and desert, but we've got direct access to the largest body of water on Earth. 

1 hour ago, TrueYankee26 said:

Was this before or after San Franciscans gentrified Oakland? Seems Alameda is not so much an oasis of A's fans in a desert of Giants fans after all.

Before. Though SF emptying out into the east bay hasn’t been helping matters. The Giants made major inroads in the Bonds/roids era, sealed the deal with the World Series runs, and stuck the knife in the A’s locally when they killed San Jose. I mean more power to them as it was well played and the A’s owners have been clueless off field for 30 years now. 

1 minute ago, SFGiants58 said:

...if only because the A’s wanted to be the closest team to downtown SF. Nothing is ever as pure as it’s made out to be.

Never heard that particular take. Not that I imagine it holds much water. Oakland teams have never had much appeal in SF or the peninsula. 

24 minutes ago, dont care said:

They’ve been saying that do 2 decades now. Sure there are lulls and casinos go out of business, to them be demolished and build an even bigger resort but vegas has adjusted with the times and will continue to be successful until the businesses in Vegas stop adjusting and it’s no longer adult Disney in America.

Eventually Vegas is going to bomb out. There just isn’t enough water to support Vegas and there never has been. They’ve been living on borrowed time for decades. A same for Phoenix. And being in the middle of the desert, there’s no other source of water for either other than the Gila in AZ for Phoenix. Vegas lacks even that.  

21 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

So yeah, sorry about not giving you guys the San José rights back. My big question is, how’d the A’s even get them in the first place?

The teams used to share them, which made sense. The A’s did the Giants a solid in he 90’s. Let that be a lesson to you, never help anyone, it’ll just blow up in your face. 

On 4/1/2020 at 7:42 PM, Cujo said:

Oakland fans after the Warriors, Raiders and A's all dip out

 

Nah they'll be fine. They all still root for the Warriors. And most of them were Giants fans already, which has been part of the problem. 

On 5/22/2021 at 8:21 PM, GDAWG said:

Nice to see Las Vegas is continuing it's delusions of grandeur when it comes to pro sports.

Going to be even more fun to watch it blow up in their faces in a few years when Vegas bombs out as a city. 

On 5/29/2021 at 4:46 AM, Walk-Off said:

Yesterday, an anchor of the morning newscast on the Bay Area's Fox station interviewed Dave Kaval:

 

https://www.ktvu.com/video/938385

 

Kaval talked up the Las Vegas option so much in that interview that I have come away with the impression that Kaval, A's principal owner John Fisher, et al. are now to MLB, Oakland, and Las Vegas what Anthony Precourt was to Major League Soccer, Columbus, and Austin, respectively -- people who are eager to try to move a big-league pro sports team from a fairly large city that seems to be too boring for their tastes to an area that has noticeably fewer residents but also a considerably more exciting image (be it the hip, socioculturally cool, "weird" reputation of Austin or the hedonistic glitz of Las Vegas).

Honestly that's the feeling I'm getting as well. Last week I thought Vegas was in play but was the backup. Now it's pretty clear it's their preferred choice and will be their only choice if Oakland's city council doesn't give them everything they want on July 20. 

On 6/29/2020 at 5:32 AM, Dynasty said:

I'm hoping it's something that will stand out compared to the other state flags (no blue flag with a seal).

 

It probably won't.

Since it's required to have "In God We Trust" I wouldn't look for it to be any good. Best we can hope for I think is that they don't pull a Georgia and try to adopt another Confederate Flag in place of the battle flag. 

Honestly I'll be shocked if they don't go with the Bicentennial flag seeing as its the one they're already unofficially using now that the old flag was finally taken out behind the woodshed. It's boring but not blue field with seal boring at least. And it has the In God We Trust.