ADW77

Wow, nice quality. 6 years? I'd say you made a great purchase here. I wouldn't know that was a fake, and neither would most people.

Except that everything about it screams "fake." The jersey mesh, bubbly numbers, shoddy sleeve logo and super-tight neck.

It's lasted 6 years. You put a replica through a fourth as many wash cycles and it's destroyed. And people wonder why anyone would buy fakes...

I've got 5 or 6 replicas that I've washed 30 or so times that look like they are brand new still.

I have something like 15 replica NFL jerseys, and a few I've had for six or more years and they've been through 50-100 washes a piece. They all look fantastic and two of them have very minor wear but they've held up and I still wear them.

So take that $50, double it for your average retailer markup,

Really? That's a heck of a profit margin.

Perfectly decent replica jerseys cost 30-40 dollars ten years ago. Perfectly decent replica jerseys no longer exist. Intentionally awful replica jerseys now cost 60 dollars. It's a shirt with some designs screenprinted or sewn on it.

While NFL replica jerseys are now at $80, they're MUCH better than they were 10 years ago when they were $45. The quality difference between the replicas from ten years ago (I have several) and now (have several of those too) is immense. I absolutely love the NFL replica jerseys now, and I've never paid full price for one.

As for NBA jerseys, the swingman is by far superior to the replica. Also, if you're smart, you can get ahold of a swingman for around $50... $75 at most. I paid <$40 for all four of my swingman jerseys.

I am positive that the wavy material used on the 35 is the wrong material.

That's the easiest way to spot counterfeits. If they have shiny numbering/lettering, they're fake. The actual twill material used for jerseys is expensive, so they counterfeiters can't use it and sell them for so cheap, that's why they use a lesser quality material, which is usually shiny.

went to the bears/broncos game on sunday and I was shocked to see the amount of counterfeit jerseys at the stadium worn by both sides...I honestly think 40-50% of the jerseys that were worn were total fakes with the absolute worst offenders being the m&n throwbacks that had about a 10% authenticity rate.

I knew fakes were out there and they had a share of the market but the nfl has a real problem on its hands, especially if they keep taking their prices up on replicas, fakes will outnumber legit product.

Chicago ssems to be a hot bed for fakes with jerseys from the four major leagues.

That was actually in Denver, and I know exactly what he means. Same deal as I mentioned earlier when I was at the Bengals/Broncos game.

I wonder what the NFL is losing by continuing to push the terrible screened jerseys at $80. For the average user, if you go to NFL.com, your options are $80 for crap, or $300 for "authentic." You go to eBay, and you see tons of sewn, nicer jerseys (certainly compared to the screened) for $50-$75. If you're not aware of the illegalities, you'd be dumb to go for the screened version.

Yes, there is such a thing as too good to be true, but I think (as I've said before in this thread) the NFL is in part creating this second-hand marker by the way its official items are priced.

Note: I'm not making a moral or legal argument; only an economic one.

Don't they still have their equivalent to the NBA's old swingman? I got a Bears one last year and I believe it was $100. Numbers and names are sewn on one layer with the other layers screenprinted on top of that.

Yes, they're called premier jerseys, and they are most definitely still available.

I don't understand what's so bad about the screened replicas. I never pay full price for them (got several at the Broncos team store for half price on black friday) and the material is actually quite durable. I've never had issues with them. Only when I was younger and thought nothing of throwing them in the dryer like other clothes.

So far not one of you defending the IP view on this has shown any examples of a designer getting paid less because they are making counterfeit jerseys in China.

Designer working for Reebok/adidas/nike/ccm/russel/etc. designs jersey/logo

Reebok/adidas/nike/ccm/russel/etc. doesn't make jersey sale.

Sale not reflected in overall profits

Designer gets less profit sharing or less bonus

I know not every person that buys a counterfeit did it over the real deal, but there is a number of people that were going to buy the real deal but decided to get the cheaper one. Or they got a sewn counterfeit instead of a screened replica because of the perceived value.

OECD did a study in 1998 about the economic impact of counterfeiting. I know its not the most up to date but I couldn't find anything else with numbers on sportswear. Plus if anything we can all agree counterfeiting has only gotten worse.

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/11/11/2090589.pdf

Counterfeit sporting goods counted for 10% of all goods seized in 1994 (page 14)

"Industry world-wide loses billions of dollars every year to counterfeiters." (page 23, this is not just sportswear this is including perfume, airplane parts, software, movies, everything)

"beside direct losses of sales and goodwill, one should not forget the expenditure involved in protecting and enforcing intellectual property rights. The right owner becomes involved in costly investigations and litigation when combating counterfeiters and may also have to spend further sums on product protection." (page 23)

"Ultimately, it is the consumer who pays the cost of unfair competition. Although many consumers believe they are getting a bargain when they buy counterfeits, the actual value of the product is normally much lower. Hence, they end up paying an excessive price for an inferior product." (page 24)

"Counterfeiting is a severe problem and the common perception is that it is increasing. However,it is virtually impossible to find accurate statistics to substantiate these perceptions, not least because of the clandestine nature of the activity. The overall costs of counterfeiting in the world today are normally estimated to be 5-7 per cent of world trade. There is no substantial aggregated data to support the high percentages, but the figures are now accepted and used to illustrate the extent of the counterfeiting problem." (page 24)

"Estimates in the United States and Europe imply that more than 200,000 jobs are lost due to counterfeiting in these two regions alone." (page 25)

Even the OECD admits is nearly impossible to gauge how much money counterfeiting costs industry exactly. Mainly because you can't treat every sale as a "loss" for the manufacture/league. You also can't track the number made or sold because...well its illegal so nobody keeps books on it. All of these are estimates so you'll never hear how much its cost the leagues. But it has cost them in some way unless you truly believe that 100% of people that buy a counterfeit would have never bought the real deal instead.

I think we all can agree by going to your average US sporting event that 5-7% of all jerseys being counterfeit is a VERY conservative estimate. I'd say its somewhere around 20%-30%. And when it comes to "sewn" I'd bet its closer to 50%.

I would like to point out that when I went to the Broncos/Bengals game this season for every true authentic jersey I saw, I saw at least five counterfeits. This isn't including replicas into the matter. When I went to the rally they had to start off the season for the Broncos, the percentage was much higher.

I would say that now, that about 75% of all sewn jerseys worn at events are counterfeit.

Basically, it's impossible to even make an argument with some of the stubborn people in this thread. A typical exchange goes as:

Person 1: If I can get a jersey for cheap, I don't care that it's illegal and I'm going to buy it.

Person 2: You're saying that there is no legal issue with buying counterfit jerseys, you are entitled to a jersey at a lower price, and doing things illegal isn't bad. It is also ok to kill people. That is exactly what you're saying.

Wow, that's so far off you have no idea.

BTW, one of the members on your 'side' is the one that started comparing one illegal activity to another with his, "well, you speed so you're just as guilty because you commit crime too."

Yeah but they're cheaper and he deserves one or three.

Once again, no one is saying that they deserve a fake.

The thought process is that they can get a high priced item at a low price, and really don't care what a group of people over the internet think of their descision.

Actually, they get what they pay for. A far inferior quality product that's essentially a piece of and looks horrible.

I have NEVER seen a great fake, ever. I've seen maybe two DECENT ones, but you could even tell they weren't great.

My thought is if I want a jersey and can't afford a M&N product, I'll make it myself, which by the way is perfectly legal, look it up. However, I like the replica/swingman jerseys just fine. They're a cheaper alternative and if you know how to take care of your jerseys, they'll last a long, long time... unlike cheap fakes.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Seattle-Sonics-35-Kevin-Durant-Classic-Basketball-Throwback-Jerseys-Yellow-L-/180767115239?pt=US_Basketball_Fan_Shop&hash=item2a168f47e7#ht_5352wt_1208

I do so want. Probably fake, but still.

That's not fake, that's a swingman, and is 100% NBA authentic.

I've noticed recently that private sports stores owned by individuals (i.e. not corporations like Champs, Finish Line, Sports Authority, etc.) are frequently selling Chinese knockoffs. There are a ton out here in the Midwest. Anyone else see this, too?

I've heard it but haven't personally seen it.

Even a big place out here like Denver Autographs has the knockoffs for sale with autographs on them. It's more the throwbacks than anything current, but it's really a problem that's getting bigger.

Here's a question...what about the classic, more generic looks? The Colts for example. You can buy a jersey with the UCLA-style shoulder stripe in Colts' colors from almost any uni supplier in the country. You can buy a blue jersey with a double-shoulder stripe in white, put 18 for the number and Manning on the back. The only thing missing is...nothing, because the Colts don't even use a wordmark below the collar. And the designer and Reebok and the NFL are left out in the financial cold just as they would be if you bought a China fake, right? What crime is being committed there? In that case, is the team's design just not protected?

What you're talking about is actually just fine. You forget that there are a few 'key' components missing. The NFL Equipment Shield, the Reebok logo on the sleeves and the NFL Equipment Jock Tag. The only way this would be illegal is if they were made with trademarked logos AND sold.

Some people with the proper skills can actually make their own jerseys, which are thousands times better than the counterfeiters and isn't illegal because they're not being sold to anyone. You can actually buy team embroidered patches online and at stores that can be used in making the jerseys. I've used Equipment patches and jock tags from pulled apart jerseys to put on the ones I've made.

My father is a corporate lawyer who deals with international business contracts, he has an extensive knowledge of these types of laws. Nothing is happening to me, if I were selling for profit or personal gain I could be but since I am not I am good.

It is illegal, ILLEGAL to sell ANY type of counterfeit merchandise, period. The fact that you're not selling it 'for profit' makes no difference.

The fact of the matter is you're knowingly purchasing counterfeit goods (which is illegal itself), then you're turning around and selling them to other people, which is even more illegal.

You have to be a troll, there's no way you can be this stupid.

Yeah, because it's SO possible for third-world children to do that without an education.

Especially when they're being forced against their will to work.

The bottom line is people will continue to buy from China, and nothing will happen to us.

No, the bottom line is that you're a pompous, selfish, egotistical windbag who doesn't know when to quit.

I've been called worse. I'm sure you are a model citizen who has never done wrong.

The typical defense for a man who has no defense. Flip it around on the other person, deflect it from yourself to another.

Why would I admit to knowing it was counterfeit if I was busted?

You said...

I am not doing anything illegal.

The fact of the matter is, you are. Not to mention the fact that you're a complete idiot.

It is not illegal to purchase and I do not sell the jerseys, I give them away to my friends after they lose $30 to me in a friendly poker game

Try again. Knowingly purchasing counterfeit goods is against the law.

I was directed to this thread by one of the guys I get jerseys for, we both think you are all hilarious. I have several china jerseys and they have all stood up to multiple washes and look great for the price. I feel no shame depriving the leagues of my money in this case. I go to several games a year, pay for center ice, sunday ticket ect... The way players change teams and teams change designs I will continue to do this.

Might want to revisit this bit of info from a shop owner in my town who "got jerseys" for other guys...

http://www.justice.gov/usao/mn/press/apr022.pdf

Hope that works out well for you

I don't make any money off selling the jerseys, my friends pay what I pay. I just do the ordering. The case you referenced is irrelevant to me, I don't make a nickel off my friends, and I do not operate any sort of store. I am not doing anything illegal.

Knowingly purchasing counterfeit merchandise is illegal; selling counterfeit merchandise is illegal.

I read through most of this thread and I wanted to let you guys know that I love ordering jerseys from China. I just placed a 20 jersey order this evening and as I ordered each one I thought of you idiots. I can afford to buy the authentic crap the leagues put out but why would I when only the biggest nerds out there would notice any differences. Also I would advise against talking to someone wearing a fake, none us care, and if you bothered me at a game I would probably dump my beer on you. I am a Bills season ticket holder and if they didn't let me in the stadium because I was wearing a fake I would cancel all 4 of my seats immediately. I am sure they would rather take my $2000+ each year then worry about what the hell I am wearing.

I smell... I smell... I smell a TROLL.

Am I the only one that thinks the actual fabric on the NFL replicas is better than that on the authentics? IMO, the mesh is far better quality on the replicas, and I like the nylon used for the 'dazzle' part of the jersey, but quality on that is about equal to the authentics.

I've also gone the route of making my own jerseys before. Nothing current, because I like the replicas better. Just throwbacks and stuff I don't want to pay $300 for, so I can make them myself.

I'm honestly surprised more people haven't made their own, since it's not illegal (at least not that I'm aware of), most people who frequent these boards would know all the correct details and would know how to put them together and use quality materials so they're hundreds of times better than any fake you can find out there.

I've, sort of, got an interesting twist to this. My father was a big Ray Nitschke fan as a kid. They have a few counterfeit Nitschke jerseys, and I'd like to get one for him. He's never cared about whether a jersey is authentic. In fact he only owns one jersey, an authentic Panthers hockey jersey that has the #1 and DAD on the back with a captain's "C" on the front. My brother and I gave it to him for Father's Day. Otherwise he'd never buy a jersey for himself.

Seeing as he wouldn't care if it's authentic or not, should I get him the Chinese counterfeit? If he ever found out I spent $300 on an authentic jersey for him, he'd return it because that's how he is. He doesn't want people going out of their way for him. If he knows I only spent $30, he's much happier (weird, right?). Thoughts?

If he doesn't care about the authenticity of it, then here's a much cheaper and legal solution: http://cgi.ebay.com/PACKERS-FOOTBALL-JERSEY-REEBOK-REPLICA-BLANK-LARGE-/140502312641?pt=US_Football_Fan_Shop&hash=item20b69726c1

Get the blank one and have it customized.

now its time for the "Luck"y 49ers

#12 is retired for John Brodie.

THAT'S what you noticed was wrong with that image?

This reminds me of the "professor" was trying to argue that the Vikings' uniforms were meant to be worn purple over purple, and insisted that was the case even when factual evidence proved him wrong.

Look rams29jackson, producing counterfeit jerseys is illegal. It violates intellectual property laws. This isn't a hard concept to grasp.

and what I am saying for all intents and purposes is, I dont have a counterfit and got it for cheaper than the ridiculous prices they want to sell them for here.

I really dont give a damn what angle brass and bringback are trying to argue.

The original Question is- Thinking about getting- and I think you should because you can get a decent product not paying an arm and a leg and its better than Americas stupid idea of a replica football jersey thats made like a hanky with iron on numbers.

all the rah-rah USA- its against the law argument is pointless and doesnt mean crap because they have been doing it for ever in plain site and the NFL and M&N cant do crap about it.

Your jersey is fake. Mitchell & Ness jerseys are made in the US. The only NFL jerseys not made overseas.

Could someone identify the font used for "VINTAGE" and "CHAMPIONSHIP" in this image?

I know I've seen this somewhere before, but whatthefont didn't help any...

Didn't Forsberg get his start with MoDo, his hometown team? And if I recall, he played for MoDo during the lockout. How is it the wrong uniform? Unless you think he looks wrong in anything but an Avs jersey.

It's not the team, it's how he looks in the uniform, which is very odd...

I didn't include the Flyers when he actually played for them, just after he was drafted.

Ummm...Faulk played more years as a Ram, set all those ridiculous offensive records as a Ram, won a ring as a Ram, most likely played his way into the Hall as a Ram, and will likely be remembered by most as a Ram.

Unless you specifically mean that particular uniform is the "wrong" one, I'm going to have to dispute your claim here.

I'm gonna have to agree with rams80 on this one. Faulk won Super Bowl XXXIV in those uniforms for goodness sake!

I do mean that specific uniform, not a Rams uniform in general, I do believe he only played one season in them.