FiddySicks

Perfect solution to this mess? Put em in Snowflake, Arizona! Sure, it's still in the sunbelt, but it's got the word snow in the name!

Yeah, it may be somewhat out of place, but not THAT out of place. Too bad they're not in the NBA where recoloring logos and keeping names like the Lakers after a big move is sort of common.

Or they could just keep what they have and change the name. Panthers is a pretty flexible identity.

The NHL isn't letting Phoenix get away from them now with 2016's #1 overall pick coming out of Phoenix youth hockey. I expect this year's deux ex machina to be the announcement of a new Suns/Coyotes/ASU arena out near Tempe or Scottsdale.

I was talking this morning to a friend about how if they REALLY wanted to keep the Yotes, they would team up with ASU and either renovate or completely rebuild Wells Fargo Arena on campus. It's damn near the perfect spot, right on the light rail line, is a good alternative to downtown, and ASU would have the motivation and justification to use their subsidies because it'll help their basketball team AND their new D1 hockey team.

But, no. Instead they'll just waste away in BFE using tax money that the county doesn't have until they're forced to move. Good riddance.

Thought this would get more notice/traction in this thread.

From DarkJourney in the NFL Merry-Go-Round thread:

From Field of Schemes:

San Jose could be about to approve $100m+ in lease breaks for Sharks in exchange for diddly-squat

Posted on May 18, 2015 by Neil deMause

The San Jose city council is set to vote tomorrow on a lease extension for the Sharks on their current arena while talking about whether to build a new one. You can read the proposal here; its a bit convoluted and I havent made sense of it all yet, but Marc Morris of Better Sense San Jose has sent along his analysis, which is this:

1. The Sharks get immediate relief from previously obligated rent payments (total reduction is $7.25M = $2M for the Arena and $5.25M for the Ice Center, where the Sharks and their new AHL farm team practice).

2. Starting in 2018, the Sharks stop paying any rent at all (thats $0 per year) for the city owned Arena, down from roughly $5M per year.

3. The City in the short term kicks in $6M and then, starting in 2018, pays $2.6M for capital and modernization needs for the Arena. That of course will be financed by the $0 a year rent.

4. The Sharks get to spend a lot of this capital money for revenue enhancing improvements; for its efforts, the City gets precisely none of the enhanced revenue.

5. Just to rub it in, the agreement also explicitly prohibits the City from getting any new revenue from its own Arena, like maybe adding a ticket tax.

6. It appears that the City will take on the interest rate risk for the bonds on the Ice Center, making the current ultra-low rates the new baseline for the rent calculation. After all, theres little to no probability that rates will go up in the next 10 to 20 years.

7. And, although this never gets mentioned, the City will continue to pay over $10M a year in interest on the bonds that paid for construction of the Arena in the first place. In the best case, the net loss to the City from the Arena is over $8M a year.

Like I said, I havent done the math on this myself, but if Morris is correct, that could easily be more than $100 million in concessions that the city would be providing to the Sharks all for a team that doesnt have an immediate alternative option to play in, and which isnt even agreeing to a long-term lease deal in exchange. (Theyd have to stay put through 2025, but its unlikely they could get a new arena built much before then anyway.) Thats the kind of thing you might think youd want to have a hearing on, or even a financial study, before voting on whether to approve it, but thats apparently not the way the San Jose city council rolls.

So the Sharks would pull a Red Wings and stop paying rent in 2018, all while essentially getting an extra $100 million out of the city, all the while trying to edge for a NEW arena?

A lot of things wrong with this, most of all that Tank needs a replacement. I mean, I guess they're talking about 10 years down the road. But besides it's sterility and brightness, the Shark Tank is a fine facility.

I'm pretty sure this is a sign from the city of San Jose showing just how scared $h!tless they are of losing the Sharks to San Francisco. I'm not sure the new arena for the Warriors is going to be big enough to fit a hockey rink, but you've gotta think the idea has at least been thrown around once or twice.

PENCILSTACHE!!!

Yeah I was expecting a total disaster, because the ones I've seen in Person looked like trash. My jaw about hit the floor when I opened the box.

I'm probably gonna give it to my mom this Sunday to add to her Giants shelf, but this makes me wanna order the 2012 and 2014 versions, too.

The High Desert Mavericks have work this black jersey for literally every single game of the season so far:

From what I've heard, they got these midway through last season, along with solid white pants. So apparently they fell in love with the solid white pants and ended up ditching the home pinstripes as a result. The red alts, meanwhile, are nowhere to be seen.

They more or less alternate between just two caps: the solid black former "alternate" with the cowboy logo known in inner circles as "the dude":

...and its solid red Diamond Era equivalent. The classic "M" cap and the faux blast-from-the-past "HD/sun/mountain" cap are also MIA. The "dude" cap, from what I've seen and been told, was rarely used in the past. What gives?

Strange things happening in the High Desert...or is it all just a mirage?

I went to a Mavs game a few summers ago with Cujo and really wanted one of those red HD caps, but they had almost none left. Same with the classic M cap. They had a ton of "The dude" caps, though. I assume that this is a shift they've been planning for quite some time now.

So a few weeks ago I decided to take a risk and snag one of those Chinese made championship rings off of E Bay. I know that counterfeit merchandise is always a risk, but the price was pretty low and I wanted to see just how jacked up these things are.

It's not perfect, but I gotta say, it's pretty damn impressive for $25.

Mine as well.

2010 was almost too cutesy.

2012 had WAY too much white gold

This one? Just about perfect. Still wish they used orange stones on the SF logo, but the balance is nice otherwise. LOVE the three trophies on the side too. A little out there, but in a good way.

Giants new World Series ring.

What a beauty

Yeah, ASU hockey has the potential to get REALLY big out here. The Phoenix area has a surprisingly big hockey following, and if they could get an arena on campus or work something out with the basketball arena downtown (not even sure what it's called anymore) they could end up filling a void WAY better than the Coyotes ever could. Plus, it's basically a spot where the Juniors version of Shane Doan can come to keep his head down and just collect those sweet, sweet pay checks

I liked the teal and navy better for them, but I LOVE that they paid homage to those classic rainouts (woah, it autocorrected Rainiers to that. I'm gonna keep it because it's fitting for that area) team with the red set. Definitely better than the boring set they used to use.

I liked these

Yeah, I miss those too.

is there any pics of these against a home team wearing a cream based jersey? maybe vs San Fran? the colors are kinda similar so im interested to see a matchup of that.

I went to a good handful of Padres Giants games at AT&T when they wore that set, and it was never a problem. That sand color, especially from a distance, was VERY pronounced.

I liked these

Yeah, I miss those too.

The colors are a little strange, but I actually really like it.

The Rink in a Stick logo completely fails because it doesn't look like a C. It's as simple as that.

The inner white part is clearly a C. The blue part is an ugly C, but it's still a C.

It is a C in the deformed possible sense. Honestly I've never looked at the white part, but it looking like a rectangular c doesn't justify the logo's existence.

Ok, what justifies a logo's existence?

Being good.

So we can agree the stick in rink's existence is justified then.

Nope. That stick in rink logo is AWFUL.

(Sorry in advance for large photo sizes) I'm having a hard time deciding if the High Desert Mavericks (Single-A Rangers affiliate) need to rebrand, or if they should stick with what they've got and run with it proudly.

Because at first glance, this...

...looks incredibly dated. But when you look at their ballpark atmosphere...

...the logo and identity package's desolate datedness actually fits in pretty well with the very remote setting in the Mojave Desert. The stadium is on the very outer reaches of Adelanto, CA, a "suburb" of the larger city of Victorville.

Man. You're a long way from the Show here.

A long way from anything. I'm not agoraphobic but those pictures make me want to be.

The pictures are kind of misleading. There is a lot of urban stuff like a mile over. To defend the team a little bit, my wife and I went on a little vacation and hit up a few minor league games on the route. The people at the Mavericks game were so nice. Way better than any other minor league game I've been to. They had the biggest group of fans that were there for a random Tuesday night. Lots of them wearing jerseys and stuff. It was strange.

The logos definitely fit the team/city/location. Thought they were kinda funny before, but they fit very well.

It does look really nice though. I do enjoy remotely located minor league fields like that.

I actually just passed through Adelanto last week while heading from Phoenix to Reno. The Park is pretty much right at the very southern start of highway 395. It's definitely remote, but it doesn't even compare to some of the little s**t:censored: towns you run across heading north along that route (Like Bridgeport or anything near Mono County). It's actually not that far from Los Angeles, and sits just above San Bernardino. Games there are a bit strange because the park feels like a 1980s public swimming pool complex, but I enjoyed it nonetheless. The starkness and age of the park actually gave it some real charm. Makes you feel like you're REALLY seeing guys pay their dues in the minors. I actually went to a game there with fellow board members Acme Packer and Cujo a few summers ago when both were living around that area (I don't wanna speak for them too much, but I know that both of them are VERY happy to not be stuck out there any longer).

If you're ever around the Southern California deserts and are bored (OF COURSE you'll be bored), California League games are a ton of fun and are usually really cheap.

I'm pretty sure Sacramento's new downtown arena is going to end up housing an AHL team eventually.

Not so much sanctity as common sense. And sure, a little bit of integrity when it comes to one team playing a 76-game season, another playing a 64-game season because they're in the Cool California Kids Club, and calling it the same league.

If there's going to be a AAA league for western states, fine, whatever, have fun with it, but it shouldn't come at great expense to the small-town northeast, where hockey is kinda their thing. I honestly don't care one bit about losing Norfolk or Oklahoma City, and I'd be pleased as punch to see Charlotte drop off the map as well, but I feel bad for the good folks in New England and upstate New York where there's not a lot going on but get to have this tradition. And actually, of all the franchise relocations I'm still pissed about, Peoria is in the lead on that.

Yeah but at least the people in upstate New York or New England (even more so) are all within, what, two hours of a pro team? I think they'll be fine. And, if hockey up there really is so strong, this may signal a shift of more east coast based teams moving their AHL operations up there to compensate, rather than having to follow prospects who will ultimately end up on the other side of the country anyway.

And the only way to build a strong fan base anyway is to move a team to a non traditional market and let the fanbase grow after pouring government money into their building... Oh my God I'm officially in Cototes fan speak mode.

Maybe this really is a stupid idea.

You guys are putting way too much thought into how the AHL and ECHL should function.

As Admiral keeps pointing out (upon deaf ears, apparently), the point of minor leagues is to get practice time and develop as a player in game situations, and to keep costs down. It's not about playing equal schedules or seeing every team or even winning a championship (and a parent team will never admit that last point publicly). It's getting their younger players ready for the top league and helping players rehabilitate and get back in game shape.

It's not really a necessity to have your AHL team located near the parent club when you have an allowance of carrying three extra skaters.

I think I should clarify a few things. While the point of the AHL, for the most part, is to develop players for the parent team, that doesn't mean that it should be a slapdash operation where teams just get games in whenever it's convenient, however many games that may be from team to team. While I certainly don't advocate the Calgary/New Jersey model where every possible corner is cut in terms of running a minor-league operation, I also wouldn't want a whole league full of tweener superstars where quality prospects get their minutes where they can, because that doesn't serve the NHL well, and like everyone except that CHRDANHUTCH weirdo who pops up around the internet, I am an NHL fan first and foremost. Affiliates should be in harmony with their parent teams in terms of running systems, maintaining a clear line of communication about who gets and needs ice time, but at the AHL level, there still has to be an effort to present the teams as engaged civic entities that want to provide a quality product at an affordable price. Maybe I'm crazy, but I think there can be an amenable middle ground where affiliates make the most of their talent without running mere scrimmages.

As for a league footprint, it should be obvious that keeping everyone in close quarters means cheaper travel and more time to practice. Let's face it: minor-league hockey is never going to exist on fat profit margins. Being able to drive a prospect from Rockford to Chicago, Allentown to Philadelphia, or one street in Toronto to another street in Toronto are luxuries of geography, not entitlements. We can't have a minor league that looks just like the NHL with all the dots on the map moved 75 miles in one direction or another. For most cities outside the northeast/midwest, tough crap. To me, the biggest irony of the Sharks claiming that they can't properly monitor their prospects in Worcester, besides the fact that their prospects are generally hockey's answer to the Putty Patrol, is that we live in a world that has never been smaller. To hear it from these Silicon Valley whiners, of all people, you'd think they were relying on telegrams to hear how their kids were looking. DEAR DOUG WILSON STOP TOMMY WINGELS CANNOT CEASE SCORING STOP PLEASE REQUEST HIS PRESENCE BY CONESTOGA AT YOUR SOONEST CONVENIENCE STOP. I find it very hard to believe that the Sharks were monitoring their prospects any worse than anyone else. But while information travels quickly and easily, hockey teams don't. That the Sharks need to have their prospects right in their own building because flying them from the Northeast Corridor was slightly inconvenient was born of the same kind of spoiled empty-headedness that gave us sweaters without stripes to be 2% faster.

This California thing is inefficient, indulgent, and compromises the integrity of the league. I don't like it and won't ever like it. The scale of minor-league hockey makes it foolish to run more than regional circuits: preferably one in the northeast, one in the midwest.

THEYRE RUINING THE SANCTITY OF EAST COAST BUS TRAVEL, DAMMIT!!!

I'd be cool with the Devils finally having a bona fide superstar forward as long as Jurassic Lou gets bounced before the draft. I don't trust him not to trade the first overall pick for goddamn Patrick Marleau.

I'd be cool with that.

I don't see why the Coyotes need a West Coast team when they won't be in Arizona in a few years.

A move to Seattle would fix this problem.

Not a "change" per se, but something a little different: the Salem-Keizer Volcanoes (Short-season A affiliate of the Giants)...

...have this cap (charcoal gray/black) as their home cap:

...with a jersey that's white with red script and trim.

And they wear this cap...

...with a road gray vest that has black sleeves and a red script. Any other MiLB/indy/collegiate teams that have their caps and jerseys almost "backwards" like this?

Actually, another Giants affiliate, the Richmond Flying Squirrels, wear black caps at home and red caps on the road. I always thought that was somewhat strange.

Ottawa does seem like the kind of town where a big parcel of downtown land could sit undeveloped for fifty years. "Hey, can we put some condos here?" "Condos? Oh, I don't know if we're ready to think that big."

This reminds me so much of the tour guide I had on one of those double decker bus tours in Victoria, BC earlier this year.

"If you look to the left you can see the original capital building of Vic-Tor-Yah, which is has now been turned into condaminyums. To your right, you'll see the first courthouse, which has recently been transformed into Vic-Tor-Yah's second newest set of condaminyums. Now we're passing through the oldest China Town in North America, which is the home of Vic-Tor-Yah's newest set of condaminyums. Just beyond the capital building is the oldest tree in Canada. It used to be in an open field, but it now sits in the courtyard of brand new, you guessed it, condaminyums."

Condaminyums as far as the eye can see, I tell ya.