tigerslionspistonshabs

Yeah I know he's a Detroiter- I used to love the Jr. Red Wings/Whalers. Never really read into the guy but heard some shady stuff about the Hartford move. Never heard about the Auburn Hills thing, but it probably would've been more successful than Carolina. TONS of money in Oakland County. Plus the Palace is a great hockey venue. Used to go to Vipers games at least 10 times a year.

You keep citing those phony attendance numbers for the Hurricanes. They've been reporting tickets distributed just like the rest of the league has been for years. I'm willing to believe the 10,000 people a night in Hartford were actually 10,000 people a night. The Hurricanes' 15,000, much less. Sometimes much, much, much less.

That Raleigh and Hartford are both marginal markets is clear. Anywhere this franchise would go, whether it's Hartford, Raleigh, Milwaukee, Las Vegas, Seattle, or up my mom's ass, would be a low-end market, because that's all that's left: medium-sized but overextended cities, boutique markets that can go all in on the NHL but still not compete with the big boys, and then stupid mistakes like Raleigh. The team only wound up there because Karmanos and Rutherford weren't allowed to move the team to Auburn Hills nor a converted aircraft hangar in Columbus. I don't think either market is ever capable of being above mean or median revenue (that's about where Quebec City, at best, could do), but the ceiling for a reinvigorated Hartford/Southern New England still seems higher than the one for Raleigh.

Hartford can't work now because the arena is a dump. No wonder the attendance was bad; it looks like a lousy place to see a game. But if they had a modern arena that seated around 16 and a half for hockey, that, combined with a great TV deal (all of New England minus Fairfield) and the don't-know-what-you-got-till-it's-gone mentality could make Hartford at the NHL level a winning proposition. And, of course, non-Karmanos ownership, because as far as hockey operations goes, he's one of the most incompetent owners in the league. Just a bunch of flimsy Europeans and crappy dudes from Michigan who are loved for being from Michigan.

They tried to move them to Auburn Hills?

Carolina actually has fans though, Extremely fair weather, but they're there.

Following Bettman's logic, the next expansion shall be... (drum rolls)

San Juan, Puerto Rico

TAKE THAT MLB!

Ftfy

Right...the KHL would put a team in Havana.

If I'm not mistaken, isn't MSG going bye-bye at some point in the foreseeable future? What would be the odds of the Isles and Rangers building a shared arena ala Jets-Giants or Lakers-Clips? Knicks would have to go too.

I thought it would cause some issues. They could always go with an NHL shield at centre ice, sort of what like the Jets and Giants do. The ads are probably easy enough to switch, but then you have two storied franchises which probably want their presence known. Nevermind.

If I'm not mistaken, isn't MSG going bye-bye at some point in the foreseeable future? What would be the odds of the Isles and Rangers building a shared arena ala Jets-Giants or Lakers-Clips? Knicks would have to go too.

Oh..fair enough.

So the Isles are playing their best hockey in quite some time. Last night's game against a division rival, the Flyers, garnered only 12,409 fans. I understand the fans woes for the past 2-3 decades, but with a decent team out there now, what's the deal? Just a protest/statement for their pending move to Brooklyn?

SLU... note the typo

Things like this always boggle my mind. Someone had to write up what was going on that banner, then submit it to someone else for approval, then send it off to the banner making company, who sends it back to the team, who puts it up in the rafters...all with a typo.

The blizzard was a product of weather-manipulation by Gary Bettman.

If Vegas gets into the NHL wouldn't that mean that the Sun Belt would have more teams than all of Canada?

That just seems a bit out of whack to me unless there is something I'm missing then please explain it to me.

It already does if you count San Jose.

So instead of working to fix the failing franchises in non-traditional markets, just add more.

A pro hockey team in Las Vegas will make the Arizona Coyotes look like the Montreal Canadiens.

WOW

This quote is humorous. A lack of attendance (effect) is a symptom of the main problem, the NHL placing a franchise in a doomed market (cause). No matter how much the 'Hawks, Bruins or Pens suck (three teams this individual poster called out), fans will always come out because hockey is a well-established sport in those areas (not regarding the legacy of the franchises).

I take it that you haven't been a hockey fan for very long... The Blackhawks and Penguins had horrible attendance numbers before the lockout.

...as did the Bruins.

I distinctly remember the Thrashers out-drawing the Blackhawks and Bruins in the few seasons leading up to the first lockout. Possibly the Penguins, too.

My brain cannot comprehend this statement.

Florida Marlins vs. Montreal Expos, 2004

Considering where that pic was taken, that IS a rare matchup. That pic was taken at US Cellular Field in Chicago. Marks one of only two times the Marlins have played a home game outside of Miami.

Why?

I actually just got used to Kunitz in a Pens uni. Always associated him with the Ducks.

This hurts my heart and brain as a Sabres/Vanek fan...

oh and dude, your sig says Playoffs and theres a picture of a Sabres logo. Must be a couple of years old.

mind = blown

Does anyone else find it weird that they actually wrote 'Philadelphia 76ers' at the bottom of the Iverson banner? I mean, isn't it obvious?

Pistons' Motor City jersey.

I went to Montreal for the first time this past summer and fell in love with the city. Beautiful downtown, all types of people, a large corporate presence.

While yes it's true that even the second coming of Christ would play second fiddle to the Habs, a baseball team would have very minimal direct competition with them.

A well placed downtown stadium close to the Bell Centre, where Labatt Park was proposed could work very well. A lot of foot traffic, you can get downtown from anywhere in the city in half an hour or less due to a very efficient public transit system.

I was there in July and the city was absolutely booming. Anywhere you looked at any point of the day or night, there's something going on and there are hoards of people walking around.

There is a huge diversity in age, culture, interests.

It's really tough to call it. The Expos yearly attendance was very sporatic. They were drawing 28,000 fans in the early-mid 80s, and then it varied from 8,000-22,000 until the axe swung.

I think at this point, it still may be a bit risky.

Has anyone mentioned Vancouver? I think it may be worth a look.

- Population of 2.3M.

- Not much direct competition other than the spring/fall hockey/baseball lap-over

- BC Lions on the odd Sunday in late summer/early fall and then the Whitecaps

- It's very much a sports town (so much so that they riot when their team loses ) and very diverse in every way

- it has the highest net worth of any city in Canada, meaning a lot of disposable income

- Massive media production centre (2nd in North America outside L.A.)

It all weighs on whether BC Place could host baseball. It's just been renovated, including the addition of a retractable roof and pretty much new everything else. The place is state-of-the-art. It's mixed on whether it can be properly utilized for baseball however.

Other than that, I mentioned Portland but there seems to be hiccups there as people have said.

I might take some flak for this, but what about Norfolk/Virginia Beach? It's always flirted with whenever relocation comes up in any league. The Kings looked at it last year, Grizzlies and Hornets in 2001-02, the Expos in 03. It's got a metro pop of nearly 2 mill and growing, with no other major league team.

Obviously there would need to be a solid plan on a stadium, but who knows?

They, and the A's, need to get this whole stadium situation sorted out. Both are viable markets in the right conditions. Barely 20 year old stadiums are getting replaced just because, while these two perennial contenders play in absolute s#itholes (in the A's case, literally)

As for New Orleans- it's a one horse sports town and they've already got 2 horses.

Memphis- the Grizzlies seem to be just getting by. It's a market completely dominated by college sports. Pro will always play the second fiddle.

Don't understand how Jersey is always in the mix.

The Devils have always had attendance issues and they've been among the most successful teams in the league for the past 2 decades (even now that they're out of the swamp, still relatively low)

The Nets had trouble drawing 14,000 fans when they were a title contender.

Now bring in a team that requires at least 25,000 a night to stay viable into a territory where the Yanks and Mets already have their claws dug in.

Makes sense.

I think the only viable option at this point is Portland. A good sized city with no other summer team and only one other team period (sorry, I still don't count MLS).

Montreal, as much as I'd love to see it, I just don't see it working out. At least not yet.

Tampa Bay Rays of Orlando?