rams80

Just tell me, how would divide the conference so that OSU and Michigan aren't together, but that it still makes sense geographically. North/South?

Bingo

If ND:

South: Penn State, Ohio State, Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, Northwestern

North: Michigan, Michigan State, Notre Dame, Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota

If Pitt:

South: Penn State, Pittsburgh, Ohio State, Indiana, Purdue, Illinois

North: Michigan, Michigan State, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota

If Missouri:

South: Missouri, Illinois, Indiana, Purdue, Ohio State, Penn State

North: Michigan, Michigan State, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota

I'll also add this; The Big XII ruined the Oklahoma - Nebraska rivalry when they messed around with it. Let's learn from history and not botch up Ohio State - Michigan.

They killed it because they adopted a scheduling system that lacked protected cross division rivalries. My suggested alignment that I think touched this off was going to allow for one cross division protected rivalry.

If having a championship game rematch immediately thereafter works for everyone, sure keep it at the last week of the season. The bigger issue here is we need to break up the Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State group of death somehow, and I'd like to see it done in a geographically rational way that is not like the ACC's cluster alignment that nobody really remembers and you could likely change annually without anyone noticing the difference.

If your fans need the framing device of "last week of the regular season-probably" to get it up for beating down those inbred halfwits at Archrival University, they kind of suck.

If your teams need the framing device of "last week of the regular season-probably" to get it up for beating down those inbred halfwits at Archrival University, your coaches kind of suck and need to be fired.

What's more important about that rivalry? The fact that it is played, or when it is played?

If you want to keep it as the last game in the season, that means that the rivalry that defines the Conference to many will never again be the Big Ten championship game. If we play it earlier, and split the teams up, that makes a championship matchup possible.

Well they're not going to not play the game so what's more important is when it's played and it's been played as the last game of the season since 1938. They're not going to change the schedule because there's too much tradition there. Changing the date of the game would do more damage to the rivalry IMO than reducing the importance of the game from Conference champion to division champion.

Playing the game in late november is as big a part of the tradition as the winged helmets and buckeye leaf stickers.

Somehow the SEC has been able to keep "3rd Saturday in October" working even when it is not played on the 3rd Saturday in October, and the Auburn-Georgia rivalry is still as heated as it was before divisions.

I don't buy that date is important in this situation. The game is still being played annually. Even more importantly, it keeps open the possibility of a Michigan-Ohio State Conference Championship ratings bonanza.

Then you don't know the Ohio State-Michigan game. The game will always be played annually, we know that and we aren't worried that it won't be played if they are in separate divisions. Moving the game to September or October will change the dynamics of the game. Using Auburn-Georgia isn't a good comparison because the OSU-Michigan rivalry is more like Auburn-Alabama. Those two play on the last day of the season, are in the same division and their rivalry is just as heated as it was before divisions. Ask Auburn or Alabama fans how they would feel if the Iron Bowl were moved to the middle of the season.

The Big Ten may want to see an Ohio State-Michigan championship game rematch because of the $$$, but the fans won't if it means they have to play the first game in September.

Allow me to explain it this way, OSU-Michigan's placement as the last game on the schedule holds significance in that fans look forward to it all season. If you move it to the middle of the big ten schedule then it might as well be just another big ten conference game. It's placement on the last day of the season still makes the game important even if either team is having a bad year or 6.

So there are two options, put them into different divisions which would mean that you would have to move one of the most famous college football rivalries off of the last game so that in the instance where they meet in the champ game then they won't play in back to back weeks. Or, put them into the same division, continue to play on the last day of the regular season and battle it out for the division championship.

Does it really matter when in the season a beat down of your arch rival happens, just so long as it happens?

What's more important about that rivalry? The fact that it is played, or when it is played?

If you want to keep it as the last game in the season, that means that the rivalry that defines the Conference to many will never again be the Big Ten championship game. If we play it earlier, and split the teams up, that makes a championship matchup possible.

Well they're not going to not play the game so what's more important is when it's played and it's been played as the last game of the season since 1938. They're not going to change the schedule because there's too much tradition there. Changing the date of the game would do more damage to the rivalry IMO than reducing the importance of the game from Conference champion to division champion.

Playing the game in late november is as big a part of the tradition as the winged helmets and buckeye leaf stickers.

Somehow the SEC has been able to keep "3rd Saturday in October" working even when it is not played on the 3rd Saturday in October, and the Auburn-Georgia rivalry is still as heated as it was before divisions.

I don't buy that date is important in this situation. The game is still being played annually. Even more importantly, it keeps open the possibility of a Michigan-Ohio State Conference Championship ratings bonanza.

I am not sure about splitting up Michigan and OSU.

I am. Anything that would somehow screw up "The Game" cannot and will not happen. Ever.

They'd still play every season. And this keeps the potential of having a rematch for all the marbles later on.

The writer forgets that Penn State this season was also among those teams eligible for BCS at large bids. If Iowa had lost in a last week championship setting, Penn State would have gotten a BCS bid instead.

EDIT-the 2007 season might have been a better example (IE Illinois squeaks in to the Rose Bowl), but depending on how the Divisions were set up, Illinois or Ohio State may not have played in the championship game.

What's more important about that rivalry? The fact that it is played, or when it is played?

If you want to keep it as the last game in the season, that means that the rivalry that defines the Conference to many will never again be the Big Ten championship game. If we play it earlier, and split the teams up, that makes a championship matchup possible.

I came up with a suggested alignment for the Big Ten about a year ago assuming Notre Dame came in. The schedule would be based on the SEC system, with 2 divisions and 1 protected out of division opponent. My priorities were 1) Split up Michigan and Ohio State 2) Preserve rivalries, especially trophy games when possible 3) Try to balance the divisions as much as possible

alignment (protected rivals across from each other)

North - South

Michigan - Ohio State

Michigan State - Indiana

Notre Dame - Purdue

Minnesota - Penn State

Iowa - Illinois

Wisconsin - Northwestern

Since the Land Grant rivalry has become somewhat significant, I guess we could have the MSU athletic department sell the Brass Spitoon to Minnesota swap protected rivals with the Gophers. In other words, Michigan State would play Penn State annually, and Minnesota would play Indiana.

No they wouldn't. Which means there is even more incentive to confederate with the Big Ten. Especially since the other popular source of research dollars (undergraduate tuition) is slightly less at Nebraska compared to other large state schools.

i dont see how/why a big 12 school would want to go to the big ten . my opinion may be (and probably is) biased as i live in nebraska, but it just doesnt make sense. the level of competition has proven to be much higher in the big 12 .

Look at revenues and beyond football. The conference is slowly evolving into Texas and the 11 dwarfs. The Big Ten has better revenue sharing, higher revenue PERIOD, and is not dominated by one single institution. There are old Big 8 schools that are not very happy with the current situation in the campus. Add in the academic prestige of being affiliated with these large research institutions, and suddenly the Big XII does not appear to be far superior to the Big Ten.

I would class this as unlikely, but Nebraska has apparently frequently come off the worst in challenging Texas over the direction of the Conference and doesn't have THAT much tying it to the Big XII outside of tradition. What bitter rivalry is there precisely to tie Nebraska to the Conference? Oklahoma used to be THE rivalry, but the short-sighted Big XII scheduling setup shot that one in the face. Nebraska-Kansas and Nebraska-Missouri has been very unbalanced historically to the point that well...I don't think of it as a rivalry in the traditional sense. Kansas State might have gotten it going in the late-90s and early 2000s, but then Bill Callahan and Ron Prince happened. Colorado is the closest thing Nebraska has to a division rival, and that is both a recent development and more a rivalry on Colorado's end than Nebraska's.

While I highly doubt Nebraska would be invited to, or accept a proposal to join the Big Ten, I wouldn't completely rule it out either in light of those factors. I think the biggest issue would be whether or not Nebraska thinks they can still recruit in Texas if they bail on the Big XII.

Additionally, AAU membership is merely based on invitation and a 3/4ths vote from the participating institutions. So presumably as long as Texas Tech or Florida State weren't invited, the AAU membership issues could quickly cease to become one.

Isn't there something in all the Big XII's team's contracts with the league that if they leave they must give 2 years notice and will receive no money from the league's revenue sharing... basically committing Athletic Suicide?

If Missouri's rumored complaints are accurate, this is not exactly a huge hit. The two years notice issue is slightly more problematic, but it can be worked around.

For all I know, this could be completely wrong, but this is what I have heard in the past.

Well...I can't help but suspect that if revenue sharing was significant, Dan Hawkins would be getting unemployment benefits at the moment.

If a Big XII team is snatched, I hope the replacement team is Colorado State, so I can giggle mercilessly as their annual beatdown of their cross state rival becomes a Conference game. Of course, Colorado would fight this tooth and nail for just this very reason.

Isn't there something in all the Big XII's team's contracts with the league that if they leave they must give 2 years notice and will receive no money from the league's revenue sharing... basically committing Athletic Suicide?

If Missouri's rumored complaints are accurate, this is not exactly a huge hit. The two years notice issue is slightly more problematic, but it can be worked around.

What? No love for Iowa State here?

They have the AAU credentials the Big Ten wants. The Big Ten would also get the Des Moines media market as well plus natural rivalries with Minnesota and Iowa.

But, I can only dream and I'm sure there are other reason you buzzkills will come up with.

They already have the diminutive Des Moines market. Or at least enough of it to satisfy their needs. Iowa State lacks the athletic pedigree to truly appeal to the Big Ten and their academic pedigree is lower than the entire Conference.

I think it will come down to three schools

1. Notre Dame, presuming Comcast doesn't do an act of overt evil for the first time in their existence and pulls out of Notre Dame's TV deal.

2. Pitt-geography fits, reasonably strong academics, decent in the big money sports-unfortunately it would shut other Big Ten teams out of Pittsburgh-area recruiting and doesn't really add a market.

3. Missouri-decent athletics and academics, adds St. Louis and Kansas City as markets, and Mizzou is reportedly unhappy with the relative lack of revenue sharing in the Big XII and Texas' dominance of the Conference.

I would also posit to our realignment fiends that a North-South alignment with SEC-style scheduling is more likely and workable than an East-West alignment.

Ummm...Faulk played more years as a Ram, set all those ridiculous offensive records as a Ram, won a ring as a Ram, most likely played his way into the Hall as a Ram, and will likely be remembered by most as a Ram.

Unless you specifically mean that particular uniform is the "wrong" one, I'm going to have to dispute your claim here.

they need to go back to those full time

I said it when they announced those as throwbacks. If they're going to play like the Banks-era Rams, they might as well look like them.

Ummm...Faulk played more years as a Ram, set all those ridiculous offensive records as a Ram, won a ring as a Ram, most likely played his way into the Hall as a Ram, and will likely be remembered by most as a Ram.

Unless you specifically mean that particular uniform is the "wrong" one, I'm going to have to dispute your claim here.

How is him typing "Neat topic" any different than all of you Massengills who think that posting "IBTL" is somehow still funny or makes you look smart?

He posted it three times in the same thread.

Four, actually. 3 were just outrageous bouts of pointless thread necromancy.

Neat Topic...

How many times are you going to post the exact same non-contibuting two word response?

Sorry, I'm not able to get to many sporting events. This forum is the only way I get to see such things...

http://images.google.com/

Also, just bookmark the thread.

Neat Topic...

Stop. Now.

Neat topic...

Neat Topic

Neat Topic...

Why must you constantly necro this thread?

That picture is so wrong. No one should be that happy to wear a Pirates uniform.

Isaac Bruce (#88)

Looks nice, but seems like a waste of money to me. Tropicana is only what.. 12 years old? Wouldn't renovating Tropicana be much easier than rebuilding Al Lang field anyway?

It may sound crude, but the best and cheapest way to renovate that mausoleum would be to implode it and convert it into a parking lot.