BBTV

There's a certain strain of liberals who absolutely detest hockey and all that it supposedly "stands for."

Not buying this. Not in any significant number.

I don't think that ad is too far off. What many of us would (perhaps unfairly) consider to be a "hard core liberal" might detest professional sports in general, or at the very least, consider ice hockey (in most of America) to be a sport played by senator's sons (basically a sport played by the the silver-spoon fed privileged kids, who tend to come from conservative families.)

Around here, the Flyers are big pretty much everywhere, but if I had to paint with a broad brush, I'd say that the archetypal Flyers fan is your average Havertownian (for the non-locals, it's a very conservative area and most of the super "right wing" stereotypes hold up pretty well there.)

David Wells, also as a Cincinnati Red:

December 26, 1995: Reds trade David Wells to the Orioles for Trovin Valdez and Curtis Goodwin.

I'll never understand why they put the number on the (viewer's) left side. IIRC, they eventually transitioned it to the correct side, but in the interim there was players with it in the left and others with it on the right at the same time. Sloppy.

Never noticed that the pants in the Motre Bame set had tunnel piping a-la the Braves.

Isn't the Milwaukee market even smaller than Pittsburgh, and losing jobs rapidly? Is Milwaukee even really a good 3-sport town anymore let alone 4-sports?

Please put names with the pictures. Not everyone who is well known in your world is well known to anyone else.

That is a pro athlete?

No, he's a baseball player.

Are these considered to be counterfeits? Since the NHL is not producing them at all they are not "Knockoffs" in the truest sense, but I am guessing that they do not have licensing rights to use the logos/name?

They're counterfeits, yes, but they're the only way to get a replica Barons jersey. They're one of the bastard children of the NHL that get no love from the throwbacks department. The only other way would be as mentioned above, to make one yourself but if the replicas aren't out there, good luck finding logo sets.

That was my dilemma. Can something be considered a counterfeit if the item is not produced and sold on the legit market?

Right - it's not as cut and dried (ugh) as simply saying "look at where it's from - FAKE!!!"

The question is does anyone hold the rights to that logo anymore? My guess would be yes (either the league or the Sharks or maybe the Stars?) but if not, then there's nobody to license its use, and then (I think) it's fair game.

Here's a question...what about the classic, more generic looks? The Colts for example. You can buy a jersey with the UCLA-style shoulder stripe in Colts' colors from almost any uni supplier in the country. You can buy a blue jersey with a double-shoulder stripe in white, put 18 for the number and Manning on the back. The only thing missing is...nothing, because the Colts don't even use a wordmark below the collar. And the designer and Reebok and the NFL are left out in the financial cold just as they would be if you bought a China fake, right? What crime is being committed there? In that case, is the team's design just not protected?

I think that a team could argue that even if you're not ripping off any TMd logos or proprietary fonts, you are still intending to deceive a would-be purchaser by making them think that it is a Colts jersey (especially if you put Manning 18 on the back.) I don't know what the laws are about that, but I know that people have been busted for selling shirts with college slogans on them that used the school colors because they were clearly designed to look like something that came from the school itself.

That being said, I think it'd be extremely unlikely that anyone would ever get busted for selling white jerseys with blue sleeve stripes and an 18, unless it had the NFL logo as well. This is one reason why you see teams putting their wordmarks under their collars, and logo patches on the front if there aren't any on the sleeves (Jets for example.)

My bowling team's name is "Shatter Those Pins" (yes, I know.)

Our captain got us shirts from Target that have the STP oil logo on them. I'm going to design something else. I'm thinking about something like the old EC F'n W shirts, but ST F'n P. I want a font for the ST and P that's kind of shattered or broken, but any shattered font I've found isn't blocky enough, and the font called "Broken" (see below) has really bad Ps (the top of the P is totally filled in so I'd have to modify it to make it look OK. But otherwise it's a good example of what I'm looking for.) Any ideas for a freeware font for this?

EDIT: if the font example doesn't show up, just refresh. Something's goofy.

Well, all I know is that if any of you guys who think buying counterfeit jerseys are ok, I'm going to take any logos you've ever designed, put them on t-shirts and sell them for dirt cheap. Guess how much you guys are going to make, aka, the people who own the logo or have designed it? Zero dollars and zero cents.

No one has answered my question concerning designers, how many of the current MAJOR sports logos designers are paid royalties on each jersey purchased? I am guessing 0 so I am not hurting the designers in any way.

This is not true.

Say team A is wiling to pay $50k for a great new logo and uniform design. This is based on their analysis that a new look will spur $1,000,000 in sales in the next year. The new logo is a hit, but the counterfeiters are all over it, so sales of legit licensed gear only net $500,000. This will lead to one of two things - either the team (or the next team in a similar situation) will offer the designer (or firm) $25k for the next package, or the licensees will absorb the cost and offer significantly less next time around. Either way there's less money to pay the designer, which has a trickle down effect on the industry as a whole.

It's a shame that most of the strong debaters checked out of this thread ages ago. After reading the last few pages, I'm thinking about ordering some fakes.

Not really.

I don't see how the design is worth less based on previous sales not hitting their mark.

I am NEVER going to buy a crappy replica for $80 or a slightly better authentic for $300 when I can get a good knock off for $20-25. Since I am NEVER going to do that they are not losing any sales from me buying knock offs.

1. It's pretty simple. Businesses budget certain amounts for certain things. The amount that gets budgeted is usually based on the value that the project ads. If it's considered a reinvestment in the organization, then the ROI is what's important. Cut that ROI in half by taking away would-be sales, and the design budget gets cut in half. Sure a designer could say "I don't care about your ROI - my design work is still worth $50k" and just about any company would say "well we have $25k budgeted. If you can do it for $25 we can talk, otherwise NEXT".

2. You can't say what you'll never do until you have no other options. Even if you wouldn't, there are other buyers of fakes who would. It's the same story with streaming PPVs - "I wouldn't buy the fight / wrestling match anyway, so I'm allowed to watch it for free".

I just don't see how you can possibly claim that you're not a troll. You signed up as "LoveTheFakes," post arrogant, condescending crap that shows you just don't get it, and you've never posted outside this thread. My troll radar is going off.

Can we stop with the troll talk? I'm starting to hate the sound of that word after reading it over and over again. He's not making irrational points here. I vehemently disagree with them, but certainly you can see how there are probably more people who feel that way than who don't.

Well, all I know is that if any of you guys who think buying counterfeit jerseys are ok, I'm going to take any logos you've ever designed, put them on t-shirts and sell them for dirt cheap. Guess how much you guys are going to make, aka, the people who own the logo or have designed it? Zero dollars and zero cents.

No one has answered my question concerning designers, how many of the current MAJOR sports logos designers are paid royalties on each jersey purchased? I am guessing 0 so I am not hurting the designers in any way.

This is not true.

Say team A is wiling to pay $50k for a great new logo and uniform design. This is based on their analysis that a new look will spur $1,000,000 in sales in the next year. The new logo is a hit, but the counterfeiters are all over it, so sales of legit licensed gear only net $500,000. This will lead to one of two things - either the team (or the next team in a similar situation) will offer the designer (or firm) $25k for the next package, or the licensees will absorb the cost and offer significantly less next time around. Either way there's less money to pay the designer, which has a trickle down effect on the industry as a whole.

It's a shame that most of the strong debaters checked out of this thread ages ago. After reading the last few pages, I'm thinking about ordering some fakes.

Not really.

People who buy counterfeits=inconsiderate republicans

And this is based on?

Republicans are generally for less regulation. Less regulation makes it easier to buy and sell counterfeits. I think that's what he was trying to say, although it's a pretty huge generalization, and obviously isn't completely true. But there is a bit of logic to what he was saying.

Philosophically there is probably a correlation between the beliefs of liberals and conservatives on this topic, however, once you start using party names or grouping people together you've taken the topic in a whole other direction. The debate should be between individual people who happen to be on opposite sides - not entire groups that we're sweeping people in to.

People who buy counterfeits=inconsiderate republicans

Really, ignorant generalizations are not going to help any side of this discussion. Accurate or not, just a dumb post.

This reminds me of how Nick got himself banned. Wasn't he trying to do some kind if IP masking thing to mask the fact that he was posting as "Monica"? IIRC he fessed that he botched it and that's what exposed the whole thing.

I do not sell the jerseys, I give them to my friends. If I were to be arrested I would claim I have no idea and there would be no proof otherwise except for this site. I used a burner email account and will delete all evidence once I am done. There is also the fact that no one cares except for you guys.

There's only 8000 people in your town of Doylestown, Pennsylvania -- i'm sure not many of them sell counterfeit jerseys with a lawyer father.

Wow this may have finally shut him up, thank you Chris.

I do not live in PA, why would you think that?

Only because he has the tools to look up a user's IP address, and may have already turned over what you have said to the proper authorities. They don't take kindly to counterfeiters in prison, you better have some steel underwear.

Eh, if you look at my home IP address, I think it comes up as East Rutherford or Plainfield NJ or something like that, which is no where near where I actually live (Center City Philadelphia.)

True...there are ways to beat it. But being an Eagles fan, do you really want to be associated with East Rutherford, NJ?

I'm not doing anything to "beat" it - it's just that however those things get registered isn't always accurate. Any time I'm on a site that has dynamic ads "hey there, looking for fun in CITY NAME", the city is always somewhere in central or north Jersey, or if I go to one of those Speedtest.net sites or derivitives, the default server is always in NJ. I'd never intentionally identify myself with that state.

I do not sell the jerseys, I give them to my friends. If I were to be arrested I would claim I have no idea and there would be no proof otherwise except for this site. I used a burner email account and will delete all evidence once I am done. There is also the fact that no one cares except for you guys.

There's only 8000 people in your town of Doylestown, Pennsylvania -- i'm sure not many of them sell counterfeit jerseys with a lawyer father.

Wow this may have finally shut him up, thank you Chris.

I do not live in PA, why would you think that?

Only because he has the tools to look up a user's IP address, and may have already turned over what you have said to the proper authorities. They don't take kindly to counterfeiters in prison, you better have some steel underwear.

Eh, if you look at my home IP address, I think it comes up as East Rutherford or Plainfield NJ or something like that, which is no where near where I actually live (Center City Philadelphia.)

I do believe you reserved your spot in Hell for that post. I hope you remember that when you fall on hard times and no one has compassion for you. This stuff always comes around full circle.

And if you are just a troll getting your jollies on, at least masturbate to porn instead of a sports logo community you sick .

Hey now, I've found a few of Lee's posts groin-tuggingly funny.

I LOLd at "He Ate Me".

Love these nicknames.

Per Wikipedia:

Due to Lorenzen's considerable girth, he has been given a collection of nicknames, which include:"Jumbo Giant", "Fat Jared", "Quarter(got)back", "QBese",^[6][7] "Hefty Lefty",^[8] "The Pillsbury Throwboy",^[9] "J.Load",^[10] "Round Mound of Touchdown", "Tubby Gunslinger",^[10][11]"BBQ (Big Beautiful Quarterback)"^[12] "Battleship Lorenzen",^[13] "Butterball",^[14] "Lord Of The Ring-Dings",^[15] and "He Ate Me".^[16]

Never buy knock-offs online.

Buy them at your local flea market or underhand sports store/mob front...

Agreed... if you are going to go counterfeit, you need to at least examine the merchandise before buying it.

I'm not following you.

He's rolling his eyes because you still have yet to grasp that buying bootleg jerseys, regardless of their quality or the buyer's financial situation, is illegal.

Well at least in this exchange, he did not make any comments that indicated that he doesn't recognize the illegalness of it, and it is true - IF you choose to purchase an illegally-reproduced jersey, it is a smart idea to inspect it in person rather than order from some on-line site.

My point through this whole "debate" has always been that I don't really care if you choose to do it (though I think it's just a bad idea to), it's just that people should recognize why it's wrong and who they're hurting. If someone recognizes the facts and still chooses to do it, then oh well. Just don't come on here and defend it or argue that you're in the right.

quote name='charger77' timestamp='1304692502' post='1537893']

Dominick Rousell must have been a big Resch fan!

Vanbiesbrouck used a variation of the reverse-wing also. I've always thought that it was the best way to treat the logo on the helmet, even if it reverses the "P". Pretty sure at this point that nobody sees the "P" anyway - it's just a logo.

EDIT: Wayne Stephenson too:

Do they have multiple versions of each letter available for whatever position it falls in the arc? So are there like 4 "U"s? Or are they custom-cut?

Chico Resch

Why the hell does the Auburn ring have the Lombardi trophy on it?

As a Sox fan, this is painful to see.

This didn't even matter:

I'm sure some Indians and Phillies fans will have a comment about Thome in black.

I'm a phillies fan and couldn't care less about seeing Thome in black.