BBTV

It's good, but I think the NHL needs to expand more in order to get the alignment just right. I'm thinking Birmingham, Tallahassee, San Antonio, and possibly Des Monies. Also, move the Panthers to Winnipeg and rename them the Jets, then move them to Seattle, but keep the name and colors.

Man, all those new NFL proprietary typefaces are such a waste of time. I get the idea, but it's still irritating that it has to be done. Once upon a time, every single team except the Bears used the same varsity block. Simpler times indeed. You'd think those Chargers jerseys were already kinda hard to counterfeit, wouldn't you?

I didn't find the home uniforms bland. You get so much pop between the three colors. Everything's too muddled now.

Well, technically, some teams had the Champion block, and some the Wilson (or whatever the Rams and Seahawks had (though the Seahawks had a really fat version of it.)).

I like the custom numbers - when they make sense. The Vikings, Cardinals, and Bengals (among others) just don't seem to make sense other than the fact that they wanted something custom.

I think that as long as football and basketball are comprised of the same members, it doesn't really cheapen it that much, since the average (read - me) fan doesn't know anything about any other sport anyway. The Big East does seem like kind of a cheap, patchwork organization sometimes since they roll out different teams in every sport*.

*yes, I know this is because of the 1-aa football teams that can't participate in that sport, but still.

I should rephrase my question.

Does the big 10 require that if you field a team in a sport that they sponsor, that team has to be in the big 10? So if Wisconsin decided to field a baseball team, could they join the Big East for some reason? So could Texas maintain their relationship with the big 12 or whatever leagues their lower-budget sports are in? (assuming of course that the big 12 would want anything to do with them, which they'd be foolish not to.)

Does the big 10 require teams to be members in all sports? Could they have a 12-team football league, and then 10 or 11 team other leagues?

I want no part of this. Nothing against the Big Ten whatsoever, but I like seeing teams in my region on a regular basis. I have friends and family etc. that have ties to Tech, Baylor, Gigem U and so on. I know the almighty dollar rules all in college football (hell, in life period), but the backlash UT would get due to this decision would make the powers that be rethink it. Leave it alone.

Then what about the Pac-10? Every year, UT would play Sooner and the Corps, but just replace Baylor and Texas State with Purdue and Indiana. The Purdue game would be great so we could see who REALLY has the World's Biggest Snare Drum! That intrigues me.

Hey, where's "spammy" with all his inside information since he works directly with a D-1 athletic director? ]

Guys, the Big Ten is not going to expand, period. The whole conference would have to vote on it, its just not happening. If it did, however, Missouri or Iowa State would be added, just because of geographical location. Texas will stay in the Big 12, and if Texas were to leave, the would join the PAC 11. Thats really all I have to say on this...

Geographical location is precisely why those schools probably won't be added. It's all about marketing these days, and they already sell their channel in and recruit their players from those markets.

Well most baseball teams put them on flag poles or on the outfield wall (or other visible spots in the stadium). Most football teams don't even display banners. I was more getting at the fact that I despise domes.

Though I understand your "Football belongs outside" angle, domes are meant to house other events, too.

Building the Georgia Dome was the smartest decision the city of Atlanta ever made, and the revenue that's been generated because of the Dome has been astronomical. It has allowed Atlanta to host the Super Bowl, the Olympics, the Final Four, the SEC Football Championship, the ACC and SEC basketball tournaments, and other national and international events. It has also enhanced the quality of play and fan experience for NFL games and the Peach (now Chick-Fil-A) Bowl.

And of course, the Falcons' owners now says that they need a new stadium to compete.

I don't see why the hell Arthur Blank is begging for a new stadium. They just spent money fixing the place up a few years ago, and it's less than 20 years old.

20 years = 1989. Stadium trends changed dramatically around 1998 or 1999 (when Cleveland Browns' stadium, Baltimore stadium opened around then, with Heinz, LFF, Reliant, etc. right around the corner) so the Georgia Dome may not be able to have those extra features and revenue streams no matter how much the renovate it. Note - I've never been inside it, so I don't know for sure. It's kind of like New Comisky - opened only one year behind Camden Yards, yet miles behind it and every stadium to have opened since (except for the Thunderdome, or whatever it's called now.)

I've never questioned it from a business standpoint. But as for the argument that "it's necessary to have a dome in order to play here", how did colleges and high schools play all those years before the technology to build air-conditioned domes existed? Also, why have a retractable dome when it's closed all the time? And when it's not closed, the "opening" barely exposes the whole field? Any time I've seen a dome'd game on TV, it just looks so sterile.

Anyway, back to the topic, I'm not sure what a good solution would be for teams with "traditional" outdoor stadiums. Maybe put accomplishments on the side tarp (the tarp under the first row of seats)? With the amount of thin video boards in the level dividers, the "ring of honor" thing and other accomplishment displays as permanent fixtures will be a thing of the past.

Well most baseball teams put them on flag poles or on the outfield wall (or other visible spots in the stadium). Most football teams don't even display banners. I was more getting at the fact that I despise domes.

There's just something wrong with bannars hanging from the rafters in baseball or football stadiums.

My god the slug looks horrible on those banners.

1. Sixers changed the logo on Charles Barkley's retired number banner. For some reason, they used the black-gold logo on it (even though he never wore it). They now use the original (current) logo.

Didn't Barkley sign one of those one-day/one-game contracts with Philadelphia after he left Houston?

I don't remember. Either way, he still never wore that logo.

Was at the 'Nova vs. Georgetown game yesterday, and noticed some things about the Flyers' and Sixers' banners:

1. Sixers changed the logo on Charles Barkley's retired number banner. For some reason, they used the black-gold logo on it (even though he never wore it). They now use the original (current) logo.

2. Flyers stopped hanging division championship banners. Not sure when this happened, but I just noticed that they just have one "Atlantic Division Champions" banner that just lists all of the years they've won it. They still have individual banners for Patrick Division and Western Division.

That looks much better - I didn't think they could add the middle suite level and separate the decks like that without blowing it up. That looks much closer to some of the modern arenas.

That pic makes it look really small, though I know it's a >20,000 seat arena.

It doesn't look as bad as the Igloo, but it's pretty close. Also, the seat colors are horrible!

I'll have to look at the pics for the planned renovation before passing judgement, but I can't imagine that they can really modernize that without blowing it up and starting over. Obviously in NYC that's easier said than done though!

So I've read disputing accounts of this - are they going through with the huge renovation of the current MSG after next year, or are they actually going to build a brand new MSG? I wasn't inside the sports part of MSG, and from what I could tell, it seemed like a perfectly functional (if obviously outdated) arena, but from a lot of what I've read and pictures I've seen, it really seems like the sports experience pales in comparison to the newer arenas (with the obvious exception of the intangible aspect of the arena's history, which almost always bumps it up a notch or two.)

"Western Conference Regular Season Champions"? Is there such a title? Is anything actually awarded to the 1 seed in each conference? Or are they just looking for reasons to make banners?

I think the team just does it if they feel like it?

I know the Red Wings do the same, but the Sabres do not do this (They were the "Eastern Conference Regular Season Champions" in 2007, but there is no such banner mentioning it)

What about the other 28 teams...anybody got info on what they do?

Does the NHL recognize a "regular season" champion? If not, then the team is just making up fake championships. It's kind of like how Ted DiBiase invented the Million Dollar Championship, just so he could have a pretty belt to wear around.

Yes, it's the President's Trophy.

Sorry, I meant "regular season" conference champion.

"Western Conference Regular Season Champions"? Is there such a title? Is anything actually awarded to the 1 seed in each conference? Or are they just looking for reasons to make banners?

I think the team just does it if they feel like it?

I know the Red Wings do the same, but the Sabres do not do this (They were the "Eastern Conference Regular Season Champions" in 2007, but there is no such banner mentioning it)

What about the other 28 teams...anybody got info on what they do?

Does the NHL recognize a "regular season" champion? If not, then the team is just making up fake championships. It's kind of like how Ted DiBiase invented the Million Dollar Championship, just so he could have a pretty belt to wear around.

Bleh. As (sort of) a fan, I'm not a fan. I much prefer dark arenas in basketball and hockey, so that all the attention is on the field of play. You don't leave the house lights on at movies, plays, the opera, what have you, so I see no reason to do so at sporting events, unless you're doing a whiteout or something. The Blackhawks keep the United Center house lights dim to off, but have the ribbon boards and those dopey "Madhouse on Madison" signs on, which looks a little eerie.

I'm with you. The Spectum used to be dim, except for the ice. I like watching old wrestling tapes from MSG where just the ring is lit up.

I remember my first time in the Igloo in Pittsburgh, and I was amazed that it was so bright in there. Then the Wachovia center was built, and it too is bright (though not as bright as Igloo.) I'm not sure if it's a safety / insurance thing, or just because nowadays so much of the crowd is "corporate", and is pretty much concerned with everything but the game.

Why cant we have a hockey stadium with a retactible roof. Then we would have hockey outside.

Because nobody is asking for it. Nobody would attend outdoor hockey on a regular basis. You certainly wouldn't have outdoor basketball in the majority of cities, and the other events that happen in these arenas aren't really meant for an outdoor environment. You'd be spending hundreds of millions to build a roof contraption that would get used once or twice a year.

Once upon a time the Penguins used to have a retractable roof at the Mellon Arena. Too bad they had too many glitches with the roof that they decided to close it up just like the Olympic Stadium in Montreal.

Right, but that design consideration had little (if anything) to do with hockey.

Why cant we have a hockey stadium with a retactible roof. Then we would have hockey outside.

Because nobody is asking for it. Nobody would attend outdoor hockey on a regular basis. You certainly wouldn't have outdoor basketball in the majority of cities, and the other events that happen in these arenas aren't really meant for an outdoor environment. You'd be spending hundreds of millions to build a roof contraption that would get used once or twice a year.

"Western Conference Regular Season Champions"? Is there such a title? Is anything actually awarded to the 1 seed in each conference? Or are they just looking for reasons to make banners?

You had to quote seven pictures to say that?

Anyway, cool article about MSG. I'm sure I'll be there again before the renovations start, so I'll definitely pay more attention to where I'm going next time.

Question about MSG:

I was there for the first time yesterday, but I was in the Theater part of it. I was really just in for the show and then out, so I didn't really get to see much of the arena.

Is the Theater above the sports arena part of it? It seemed like it was, but I couldn't tell for sure if it was literally like a second floor, or if it was something that was just on the side.

I worked at MSG for 4 years...

The Theater is within the arena. The basketball court/ hockey ice is on the fifth floor, and then the seats expand up from that all the way to the top floor which is the sky boxes.

The Theater is beneath all that, I believe the stage level is on the first floor and the top row of seats is on the 2nd floor.

When you say "floor", you mean seating tier, right? Not like the arena is on it's own floor, like it's an office building and it has stuff above and below it, right?

So from what it sounds like, the theater seems to be nestled in behind the first and second levels of seats, where you would normally expect something like a locker room to be?

Something like

*
  *
    *   
      *
        *     <------200 level seats
          *
            *   <----- 100 level seats
  theater     *
    theater     *
       theater    *       court / ice
          theater   ***********************************

No, he means like an office building. The floor/ice is not at ground level. MSG is 10 stories tall, the floor is on the 5th floor and the seating is on floors 5-10. I've never been to the theatre portion but from the way he describes it I think the theater is below the arena.

Now that I re-read his post, it makes more sense now. Still, it certainly didn't look like a 10-story building. I was staring at it as we walked up to it, and it didn't appear to be much taller than the Wachovia Center or any other arena. Of course, it may have been an illusion, since there's a big tower right next to it.

To get to the theater, we had to go up at least one escalator. Can't remember if more than one. We then walked through the lobby where the bars are to get to the seating, and walked down to our seats. It would make sense that we entered on the second floor, and walked down near the first where the stage is.

It seemed so small though... like it couldn't have taken up the entire floor (unless there's a huge area behind the stage.)

MSG has diagrams on its website. As you can see here it takes up about a quarter to a half of what would be the arena floor.

http://www.thegarden...verview-map.pdf

Here is the general overview of MSG diagram. As you can see the Theater is floors 2-3, and the arena is floors 5+. I think floor 1 is the lobby. I don't rally know the only part of MSG I've been in was Penn Station.

http://www.thegarden...verview-map.pdf

Has for its height it is probably a little of both. The bigger buildings around probably do create an optical illusion but Wachovia Center might not be that far behind in size. Remember MSG was built in the late 60's about the same time as the Spectrum in Philly. Layouts were different where it goes out more instead of stacked like arenas today. Thus the arena portion isn't as tall. As a comparison look at the height of the Spectrum compared to the Wachovia Center.

Cool, thanks for the info!

Question about MSG:

I was there for the first time yesterday, but I was in the Theater part of it. I was really just in for the show and then out, so I didn't really get to see much of the arena.

Is the Theater above the sports arena part of it? It seemed like it was, but I couldn't tell for sure if it was literally like a second floor, or if it was something that was just on the side.

I worked at MSG for 4 years...

The Theater is within the arena. The basketball court/ hockey ice is on the fifth floor, and then the seats expand up from that all the way to the top floor which is the sky boxes.

The Theater is beneath all that, I believe the stage level is on the first floor and the top row of seats is on the 2nd floor.

When you say "floor", you mean seating tier, right? Not like the arena is on it's own floor, like it's an office building and it has stuff above and below it, right?

So from what it sounds like, the theater seems to be nestled in behind the first and second levels of seats, where you would normally expect something like a locker room to be?

Something like

*
  *
    *   
      *
        *     <------200 level seats
          *
            *   <----- 100 level seats
  theater     *
    theater     *
       theater    *       court / ice
          theater   ***********************************

No, he means like an office building. The floor/ice is not at ground level. MSG is 10 stories tall, the floor is on the 5th floor and the seating is on floors 5-10. I've never been to the theatre portion but from the way he describes it I think the theater is below the arena.

Now that I re-read his post, it makes more sense now. Still, it certainly didn't look like a 10-story building. I was staring at it as we walked up to it, and it didn't appear to be much taller than the Wachovia Center or any other arena. Of course, it may have been an illusion, since there's a big tower right next to it.

To get to the theater, we had to go up at least one escalator. Can't remember if more than one. We then walked through the lobby where the bars are to get to the seating, and walked down to our seats. It would make sense that we entered on the second floor, and walked down near the first where the stage is.

It seemed so small though... like it couldn't have taken up the entire floor (unless there's a huge area behind the stage.)