leafs13 Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 I want to know what you guys thnk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL FANATIC Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 Any single stat is worthless without the support of many other stats and observation.I won't pick just one. JUSTIN STRIEBEL | PORTFOLIO | RESUME | CONTACT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leafs13 Posted September 5, 2005 Author Share Posted September 5, 2005 Well, what do you think proves a players skill more? Average or On Base Percentage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL FANATIC Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 Well, what do you think proves a players skill more? Average or On Base Percentage? My statement still stands.I also believe it depends on the situation.For instance, if your looking at a leadoff hitter, OBP might be slightly more important than average. You need that guy to table set.However, if your looking at a 3-4-5 hitter, you probably want to check a players average just before you check OBP, because walks don't usually drive in runs.But like I say, and as you can partly take from my short analysis, all the stats have to be looked at as a whole, then with observation, and analysis of the situation, to really figure out the skill of a player.That said, I can tell your looking for a specific answer. So, though I don't think it means much looking at the stat by itself, I will say I generally put more weight in a players average than OBP. (And I'll go ahead and place a vote that way.) JUSTIN STRIEBEL | PORTFOLIO | RESUME | CONTACT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leafs13 Posted September 5, 2005 Author Share Posted September 5, 2005 ...However, if your looking at a 3-4-5 hitter, you probably want to check a players average just before you check OBP, because walks don't usually drive in runs... I don't know about you, but I'll take a walk from my 3, 4, or 5 hitter. And last time I checked, RBI drive in runs not avg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJTank Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 Its batting average nobody rembers who finishes with the highes OBP. www.sportsecyclopedia.com For the best in sports history go to the Sports E-Cyclopedia at http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL FANATIC Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 ...However, if your looking at a 3-4-5 hitter, you probably want to check a players average just before you check OBP, because walks don't usually drive in runs... I don't know about you, but I'll take a walk from my 3, 4, or 5 hitter. And last time I checked, RBI drive in runs not avg. I'll take a walk too. As I said, it's all gotta be looked at.RBIs are what a player gets when he drives in a run, but more often than not he's gonna get that RBI via a hit, and average is based on hits.Really, take my answer of AVG with a grain of salt. Like I said, one stat is meaningless without plenty more stats, observation, and analysis of the situation. JUSTIN STRIEBEL | PORTFOLIO | RESUME | CONTACT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leafs13 Posted September 5, 2005 Author Share Posted September 5, 2005 ...RBIs are what a player gets when he drives in a run, but more often than not he's gonna get that RBI via a hit, and average is based on hits... Walks get people on base. Then they get driven in.And OBP is also based on hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL FANATIC Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 ...RBIs are what a player gets when he drives in a run, but more often than not he's gonna get that RBI via a hit, and average is based on hits... Walks get people on base. Then they get driven in.And OBP is also based on hits. That's why in the original post I specifically noted the 3-4-5 hitters. Walks are good for them if the hitters behind them can drive them in. However, if you assume that the 1-2 hitters are getting on base via walks fairly often, a hit by the 3-4-5 guys is more likely to drive them in than a walk.And yes, OBP is based on hits, but it's also based on walks and HBP. You can tell more about how good of a HITTER (not player, not even batter, but HIT-ter) a player is based on average than you can based on on-base percentage. JUSTIN STRIEBEL | PORTFOLIO | RESUME | CONTACT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schwep76 Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 Out of average and OBP, it's NO DOUBT OBP...but there are much, much better stats to use than either one of these...VORP is just one that comes to mind.Sabermetrics is awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leafs13 Posted September 5, 2005 Author Share Posted September 5, 2005 And yes, OBP is based on hits, but it's also based on walks and HBP. You can tell more about how good of a HITTER (not player, not even batter, but HIT-ter) a player is based on average than you can based on on-base percentage. That's true.OPB shows a player's patience at the plate. So you can tell if a player is willing to take a walk to get on base.So I'm guessing you would rather have Mark Teixeira than Jason Giambi.Teixeira .290 .361 .548Giambi .277 .445 .539 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leafs13 Posted September 5, 2005 Author Share Posted September 5, 2005 Out of average and OBP, it's NO DOUBT OBP...but there are much, much better stats to use than either one of these...VORP is just one that comes to mind.Sabermetrics is awesome. Yes, VORP is great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL FANATIC Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 leafs, I wouldn't necessarily rather have Texiera, and certainly I wouldn't base it on average.I'm trying to make it clear to you that I won't let just one stat tell a story. I'll look at loads of stats, observation, and the situation before I take a side.You however asked me to choose between average or onbase percentage. Reluctantly (because I don't think either can stand on its own) I choose average.I'd never use just one stat though. JUSTIN STRIEBEL | PORTFOLIO | RESUME | CONTACT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leafs13 Posted September 5, 2005 Author Share Posted September 5, 2005 leafs, I wouldn't necessarily rather have Texiera, and certainly I wouldn't base it on average.I'm trying to make it clear to you that I won't let just one stat tell a story. I'll look at loads of stats, observation, and the situation before I take a side.You however asked me to choose between average or onbase percentage. Reluctantly (because I don't think either can stand on its own) I choose average.I'd never use just one stat though. Okay, have it your way bk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsfan39 Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 hey look its the billy bean question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrdevil Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 I have to agree no 1 stat can tell you the true measure of a players skill. The closest thaing is a combo of many stats. If you were to build a team the best way to measure a players skill is your own 2 eyes. Watching the player play is the best way to measure a players skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audiodrama Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 Honestly, the only hitting stat that really matters is OPS. It measures pretty much everything except "clutch-ness." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leafs13 Posted September 5, 2005 Author Share Posted September 5, 2005 Well, of AVG and OPB, which proves a player's skill more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audiodrama Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 Well, of AVG and OPB, which proves a player's skill more? What I'm trying to say is, the poll is pointless. Neither one of them definitively proves a player's skill at all. They're equally obscure independently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leafs13 Posted September 6, 2005 Author Share Posted September 6, 2005 What I'm trying to say is, the poll is pointless. Neither one of them definitively proves a player's skill at all. They're equally obscure independently. It doesn't prove a players skill at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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