Two Illini Basketball Players In Wreck

[STL FANATIC]

http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/200...in_car_accident

Sophomore Jamar Smith (the driver) and freshman Brian Carlwell (passenger), were in a bad wreck late last night. I saw unofficial photos and the car is seriously beat up.

Jamar Smith was released with a concussion. Carlwell is in critical condition in the hospital. Right now we don't know much more than that.

Please don't speculate as to what caused this right now, I don't think that's fair, and I'm not sure your first thought has any involvement here anyways. I will say classes are canceled today because of a heavy snowstorm, and last night around 1 AM when this happened, the snow had been coming for a few hours.

I've never met Smith. Carlwell lives on the floor below me, and I've met him a couple times.

Please keep both in your thoughts and prayers.

[Taylor R.]

Thats terrible that happened hopefully they will be better and back on the court soon

[NJTank]

Wow thats bad news I hope they can both recover

[Jigga]

http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/200...in_car_accident

Sophomore Jamar Smith (the driver) and freshman Brian Carlwell (passenger), were in a bad wreck late last night. I saw unofficial photos and the car is seriously beat up.

Jamar Smith was released with a concussion. Carlwell is in critical condition in the hospital. Right now we don't know much more than that.

Please don't speculate as to what caused this right now, I don't think that's fair, and I'm not sure your first thought has any involvement here anyways. I will say classes are canceled today because of a heavy snowstorm, and last night around 1 AM when this happened, the snow had been coming for a few hours.

I've never met Smith. Carlwell lives on the floor below me, and I've met him a couple times.

Please keep both in your thoughts and prayers.

I hope your boys get well soon, I really do. Carlwell's condition has been upgraded from critical to serious, so that's a step in the right direction.

However, I just want to say how much the phrase in bold just grates me. Maybe it's because I have a visceral inclination to knock anything you say. Maybe. But please spare me this wholier-than-thou, "please don't speculate as to what caused this" bull:censored:. Newsflash, Justin, you're thoughts don't have any damn involvement either.

I will totally send up a couple prayers for Jamar Smith and Brian Carlwell, but an otherwise great sentiment was contaminated by your usual Justin-knows-best, self-appointed Lord High Chancellor blather and I can't just let it go.

[Guest]

I'm gonna dare to speculate: it's really hard to drive in snowstorms.

[harperdc]

all I know is that the passenger side of that Lexus got devastated. (pics were on Deadspin earlier today) thoughts and hopes out to the University, the team and the players involved.

[STL FANATIC]

Thankfully, Brian Carlwell's condition has been upgraded to fair now.

There's some interesting information coming out, but there's still more that needs to come out. One being that Jamar Smith apparently drove back to his apartment, went in, left Carlwell in the car, and that's how authorities found him.

What we don't know yet is who called the police (Jamar, a neighbor), and what Jamar was thinking (one thing is he definitely had a severe concussion at the time).

So we'll see what comes out about that.

But I'm just thankful they both seem to be on their way to recovery.

[Jigga]

Please don't speculate as to what caused this right now, I don't think that's fair, and I'm not sure your first thought has any involvement here anyways.

Smith faces felony DUI, other charges.

So, your boy Jamar Smith gets charged with aggravated drunk driving and leaving the scene of an accident (both felonies) because he believed Brian Carlwell was dead in the passenger seat and drove more than a mile to his apartment, leaving Carlwell in the f'ing car! Guess there was really no need to speculate because the alleged truth is worse than anything I could have speculated.

See, Justin, this is why the whole holier-than-thou stuff doesn't work.

Anyway, he should be kicked off the team immediately, expelled from the University of Illinois if these reports are proven factual, and get some jail time so he can truly understand the gravity of what he did. How do you leave your boy in the car like that, man? I understand he suffered a "severe" concussion--though he was able to drive home apparently--but I mean damn, come on!

[EatSleepJeep]

What a DB.

Fixed the link too

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=2772512

[STL FANATIC]

There's still more to come out of this too. Like Jamar apparently had gone back into the apartment with other players...what were those other guys doing (and I mostly mean why didn't they get help for BC...but also, what were they doing in the apartment)?

Jigga, I agree about holier than thou stuff being bad, I even PMed you about that, but I guess you have to do all your criticisms in the public domain.

Regardless though, I don't think this result means speculation is okay. Just because it turns out right doesn't mean it's fair or right to do. I stand by that.

We'll have to see what happens. Certainly a serious of huge mistakes by Jamar, and they all kept compounding on him. (He drank which helped him make the stupid decision to drive, he added a concussion to the mix which helped him make the stupid decision to go home and leave BC in the car. But because it all starting with drinking, he doesn't really have a defense for himself).

The only things I can say in his favor, are (1) I can't pretend I know what I'd do if I thought I just killed my bud with such a stupid mistake. I'd like to think I'd try and get him help as fast as I could, but I'd be such a wreck (in addition to his drinking and concussion) that I don't know. (2) We need more info on who/how/and when help was called for. Because, Brian Carlwell is a huge kid. And you aren't supposed to mess with head and neck injuries. The emergency workers had to cut him out, so Jamar couldn't have removed him. He obviously could have called for help, and he didn't, two girls who saw the car did. But right now we don't know whether Jamar knew someone had called or not.

It's messed up for sure. Still I'm glad they're both physically alright.

I don't think Jamar should be expelled. And I don't believe he should be kicked off the team for sure either. Suspend him for at least half of next season and let the legal system take its course (likely he'll get about 2 years probation, loss of his license, and maybe a couple weeks of jail time).

And I don't feel that way because he's "my boy". I'm always into second chances. He can understand his mistake (and so can others) without totally and completely derailing the track of his life. Yes, being in that car he could have derailed his, BC's, or someone elses, but he didn't, and at some point I think he deserves a second chance. (And this is my nature. Ask the other mods.)

We'll see. What a mess this is. It's no secret the team drinks. Rich McBride got a DUI before the season (he's of age, not that that makes it a whole lot better). And to be honest, it's not that big of a deal that they drink. But they've gotta stop making such stupid choices.

[Jigga]

Jigga, I agree about holier than thou stuff being bad, I even PMed you about that, but I guess you have to do all your criticisms in the public domain.

Yeah, I do. I learned that from Braden. Honestly, I think you're a good dude, Justin, I just don't believe in private criticism when the comments I'm criticizing are made in the public domain as well.

I don't think Jamar should be expelled. And I don't believe he should be kicked off the team for sure either. Suspend him for at least half of next season and let the legal system take its course (likely he'll get about 2 years probation, loss of his license, and maybe a couple weeks of jail time).

And I don't feel that way because he's "my boy". I'm always into second chances. He can understand his mistake (and so can others) without totally and completely derailing the track of his life. Yes, being in that car he could have derailed his, BC's, or someone elses, but he didn't, and at some point I think he deserves a second chance. (And this is my nature. Ask the other mods.)

Look, I'm all about "second chances" when applicable. However, there comes a point where there should be consequences to these 'alleged' actions. A scholarship is a privilege that he lost when he left his teammate for dead. Being a student at the University of Illinois is a privilege he lost when he grossly endangered the life of another student. He 'allegedly' committed two felonies. If the allegations are truthful, he deserves to lose his freedom for a little while.

Jamar Smith has a lifetime of second chances ahead of him, but staying on as a scholarship baller at Illinois and just getting a slap on the wrist punishment isn't a second chance, it's a gift. A gift of which Smith has more than proven that he is unworthy, based on his behavior that night.

[harperdc]

daaaaaamn. looks like I missed the news (or didn't put the two and two together, or didn't want to believe it or something). hopefully the truth comes out and the guilty parties are punished appropriately...

hopefully Carlwell is all right in the end and can play again. that's what matters most importantly.

[STL FANATIC]

Both Jamar and Carlwell were at the game last night, apparently still buddies. While the rest of the team went in for the halftime talk, they remained and watched the Chief's dance.

[Guest]

"Come play basketball at the University of Illinois, where your friends will conspire to leave you for dead!"

STL FANATIC, if you were not a student at the University of Illinois, would you argue that a guy whose BAC was over twice the legal limit and left his teammate for dead in a crashed car should be able to stay on the basketball team, to say nothing of staying in school at all? Be honest, please.

[STL FANATIC]

"Come play basketball at the University of Illinois, where your friends will conspire to leave you for dead!"

Still having a candlelight vigil for the Chief, U of I guys?

Yes.

And excuse me if I'm getting holier than though again, but this speculation that he left him for dead is ridiculous.

While Jamar wasn't brought in for about 2 hours, help was on the way shortly after they arrived back at the apartment. We don't know the thought process of any of the guys there including Jamar. We also know there was essentially nothing they could do to help Carlwell once help was on the way.

Apparently Jamar thought he killed him.

But even that is not leaving him for dead.

Dumb, stupid mistakes to be sure.

But why act like a dumb kid is cold-blooded when he's really just dumb?

"Come play basketball at the University of Illinois, where your friends will conspire to leave you for dead!"

STL FANATIC, if you were not a student at the University of Illinois, would you argue that a guy whose BAC was over twice the legal limit and left his teammate for dead in a crashed car should be able to stay on the basketball team, to say nothing of staying in school at all? Be honest, please.

Honest to God, I would TCR. I'm really big on second chances. I think you can effectively punish him without completely derailing his life.

Honestly, I feel that way about many things regardless of whether I have a tie to them or not.

When I hear about guys getting kicked off for repeatedly beating their girlfriend, I wish you could give them another chance, but usually they've already screwed up multiple behavior, and it is action with a mindset of intent to harm.

But when I hear about guys who get DUIs and other such mistakes, I understand the severity their actions could have resulted in, but feel they should eventually get a second chance, because their action was just plain dumb. A mistake.

You don't have to agree, but I can promise that is how I always feel.

[Guest]

Generally, if you're in a serious wreck, you don't go upstairs with your buddies to play video games. And what's the "speculation" here? He crashed his car and abandoned the scene of the crime. Pardon me as I go into Dan Bernstein mode here, but

that

is called

leaving him

for

dead.

[STL FANATIC]

He left the scene of the accident WITH Carlwell, he didn't leave him there.

Until we know more about what he did and what he knew others were doing, it is speculation about whether he left him for dead.

If he knew help was coming, is that leaving him for dead? If he went in to try and get help, is that leaving him for dead?

There's still a lot of things we don't know. This is pretty messed up for sure. I'm not sure it can get worse. But it doesn't have to be so slanderous.

And the video games...talk about your speculation. We have NO idea what he was doing inside the apartment other than we're told he was very upset.