Ireland Football Unis

[coggs]

Hey guys, I have recently gotten into making custom McFarlane figures. An idea I came up with was to make figs of my brothers and myself in Team Ireland Football unis. I made these to give me a reference as I paint. Just wanted some feedback on the color schemes. Basically debating between white jerseys with white pants versus green pants, and the green jerseys with white pants versus orange pants. As for the helmet, one is the Irish Harp from the Irish Hockey jerseys, the helmet in the middle is "supposed" to be a map of ireland (if I use it, I know I have to sharpen the map) and the third is the harp inside the map. It is going to be a couple of weeks before I can begin these, but had some time to kill the past few days so I played around with it. Please remember, these are really for reference only.

[ColeJ]

my recommendations:

white pants with the green jersey.

white pants with the white jersey.

white helmets with a green shamrock as the logo.

use the harp/shield as the sleeve logo, as it fits better there.

also, find one number font. drop shadows on the white jersey, but none on the green jersey look out of place.

also, you might want to shrink a lot of your logos and numbers by just a tad. they're oversized as it is..

reason i like white pants on both unis, is because the striping looks better that way. i really don't like the look of your orange/white/orange stripe on the green pants. and it doesn't really fit in with the cuff-stripe pattern, either... stick with flag-related striping, if you can.

and it might not look bad to even have that striping down the center of the helmet. green on one side, white in the middle, orange on the other side of the helmet... might look cool, even though it's uneven.

just my 2 cents.

[coggs]

Thanks Cole. I agree on the striping looking better on the white pants. As for the numbers, I really like the drop shadow (rangers season ticket holder, HAVE to love it). However, I hated how it looked with white numbers and orange shadow on the green jersey. I'll try changing the number on the whites to match the greens. You are right on the size. I was careless as I was just trying to put everything together. When I make the decals to put on the figs I always print up a bunch of each in different size to see which fits best.

[VitaminD]

Thanks Cole. I agree on the striping looking better on the white pants. As for the numbers, I really like the drop shadow (rangers season ticket holder, HAVE to love it). However, I hated how it looked with white numbers and orange shadow on the green jersey. I'll try changing the number on the whites to match the greens. You are right on the size. I was careless as I was just trying to put everything together. When I make the decals to put on the figs I always print up a bunch of each in different size to see which fits best.

Maybe instead of the drop shadows, just double outline the numbers, like the old Chargers unis (I can't remember if the new set is outlined like old set, with the addition of more powder blue):

WHITE JERSEY: green numbers, outlined white, outlined orange

GREEN JERSEY: white numbers, outlined green, outlined orange

The numbers in the top concept appear to be only single-outlined; a double outline would give you a similar effect to drop shadowing without the extra orange everywhere, and maintain uniformity of design.

Would an "Irish" font be out of the question, like what some of Notre Dame's teams wear (women's soccer does for sure, and the men's basketball team had alts with uncial calligraphy-inspired fonts a few years back)?

As for the rest of my two cents:

HELMET: Harp. The map doesn't translate well to the helmet, and the harp appears nowhere else on the uniform. As a major national symbol, it looks great on the helmet.

PANTS: as Cole said, white pants for both. The orange pants give the whole concept a Florida A&M vibe. Also, the national flag keeps the green and orange apart to symbolize the peace (white) between the Catholics (green) and the Protestants (orange). White makes a good buffer, and green should be the dominant color - not because of religion as much because of the connotation with The Emerald Isle, and the like. Plus, white pants make the flag striping stand out better. Save the orange for a trim color - socks, collar, sleeves, number outlining.

Smaller TV numbers are a good idea as well, unless your inspiration was an old Mark Gastineau Jets jersey, or what Ohio State wore until a few years ago.

All in all - great grand idea.

[BallWonk]

I like the white shirt, green pants and green shirt, white pants. Green shirt, orange pants, not so much. Too much density of non-complementary colors.

On the use of logos:

First off, nix the idea of putting anything even resembling a map of Ireland anywhere on the uniform. Sadly, anything you do in that regard will be a political statement. (Use the map of the Republic of Ireland, as you've done, and you're endorsing the permanent division of the Irish people and the island's conquest by blah blah blah; but if you use the whole island, then you're endorsing the violent papist reconquest of blah blah blah. You can't win, and "I don't mean to make a political statement" is not an allowed answer in this case.)

The shamrock is OK, but you need to use it with more style. Not just a big honkin' blob. Considering the last decade of Irish national team iconography in other sports, your shamrock is garish and retrograde.

The harp, however, is brilliant. Your specific use of it is a bit busy for a football helmet, but that seems to me to be the stronger icon to communicate Irish national identity in the way you're trying to do with this uniform.

All in all, I'd say ditch both the map of Ireland and the shamrock, and work on a harp logo for use on the helmet and the shirt/pants.

Still, I wonder who would be willing to play for the Irish national gridiron team. "You mean it's just like rugby, except I only play half the game, we all have to wear body armor, and we stop every couple of seconds to catch our breath? So it's rugby for girls. Do I look like a pansy to you?" At which point someone is getting punched, and a game of rugby breaks out, and that's about as far as the recruiting pitch would ever get.

[coggs]

I like the white shirt, green pants and green shirt, white pants. Green shirt, orange pants, not so much. Too much density of non-complementary colors.

On the use of logos:

First off, nix the idea of putting anything even resembling a map of Ireland anywhere on the uniform. Sadly, anything you do in that regard will be a political statement. (Use the map of the Republic of Ireland, as you've done, and you're endorsing the permanent division of the Irish people and the island's conquest by blah blah blah; but if you use the whole island, then you're endorsing the violent papist reconquest of blah blah blah. You can't win, and "I don't mean to make a political statement" is not an allowed answer in this case.)

The shamrock is OK, but you need to use it with more style. Not just a big honkin' blob. Considering the last decade of Irish national team iconography in other sports, your shamrock is garish and retrograde.

The harp, however, is brilliant. Your specific use of it is a bit busy for a football helmet, but that seems to me to be the stronger icon to communicate Irish national identity in the way you're trying to do with this uniform.

All in all, I'd say ditch both the map of Ireland and the shamrock, and work on a harp logo for use on the helmet and the shirt/pants.

Still, I wonder who would be willing to play for the Irish national gridiron team. "You mean it's just like rugby, except I only play half the game, we all have to wear body armor, and we stop every couple of seconds to catch our breath? So it's rugby for girls. Do I look like a pansy to you?" At which point someone is getting punched, and a game of rugby breaks out, and that's about as far as the recruiting pitch would ever get.

Keep in mind, I am American, of Irish descent. I never even THOUGHT of the map of Ireland issue, but you are right. Another thing I was thinking about was working a bagpipe into the mix instead of the shamrock. My grandfather played as does my dad and many uncles. At one time more than half of the Emerald Society Pipe Band of the NYPD and FDNY could be traced to my grandfather as people he taught or people who were taught by people he taught. Even though most associate the pipes with Scotland, they are a big part of the Irish culture and traditions.

As for playing for a National Team, not sure. If they started a World Cup of American Football, and they said ancestors of the Irish could play, I'd try out even though it has been 12 years since I have played real football. However, I am sure there are tons of other Americans of Irish descent who would make the team over me.

Vitamin, I was thinking of playing around with the fonts, as well for a more Irish Calligraphy type thing, and I am definitely agree on the white pants. The Orange pants were something that popped into my head as I was making the others. Was thinking about the Browns orange pants, the Steelers yellow, etc.

Thanks for the input fellas, still open to ideas from others.

[VitaminD]

Another thing I was thinking about was working a bagpipe into the mix instead of the shamrock. My grandfather played as does my dad and many uncles. At one time more than half of the Emerald Society Pipe Band of the NYPD and FDNY could be traced to my grandfather as people he taught or people who were taught by people he taught. Even though most associate the pipes with Scotland, they are a big part of the Irish culture and traditions.

You're 100% right in every part of this paragraph. Pipes are as Irish as Aran sweaters. Unfortunately, being right doesn't always matter, and in the public's mind, bagpipes are more associated with Scotland than Ireland. So, unless you plan on spending the rest of your life angrily screaming, "they're uilleann pipes you imbecile!" to anyone who asks why you've got Scottish bagpipes on your Irish uniform, I'd go with the harp. It'll just save you headaches and arguments in the long run. Plus, the Irish harp looks great on the helmet.

As for playing for a National Team, not sure. If they started a World Cup of American Football, and they said ancestors of the Irish could play, I'd try out even though it has been 12 years since I have played real football. However, I am sure there are tons of other Americans of Irish descent who would make the team over me.

Well, let's see. We've got Tom Brady, so we're set at QB. If Brian Finneran's healthy, he has someone to throw to. Jim Finn may be our feature back, and that would be a shame. Are we allowed to include anyone with Irish names, even if they don't have Irish ancestry? Then we could pick up Willis McGahee, Sean Taylor, Deltha O'Neal and Brian Dawkins and wind up with a much better roster.

[coggs]

Vitamin, true about the arguments, but these are not for real unis. They are for figures I plan on making. The only people who will see them are those who get invited into my abode.

Well, let's see. We've got Tom Brady, so we're set at QB. If Brian Finneran's healthy, he has someone to throw to. Jim Finn may be our feature back, and that would be a shame. Are we allowed to include anyone with Irish names, even if they don't have Irish ancestry? Then we could pick up Willis McGahee, Sean Taylor, Deltha O'Neal and Brian Dawkins and wind up with a much better roster.

Well, I'm an OLineman, figured Brady would make the US team. Yes, they have to be of Irish Ancestry and be able to PROVE it. Shall we say, one of your 4 grandparents or one of your parents must have been born in Ireland or at one time been an Irish citizen. Although, I still think I'd have a hard time making the team.

[ColeJ]

if you want to work the drop shadow into the green jersey, have you tried orange numbers, outlined in white, with a white dropshadow? that might work in a new york rangery sort of way.

and it keeps the orange and green from touching.