guest23

Notre Dame's gold-flaked bright helmets look dumb with those pants. Their old-school helmet painting look was far better...and so were the pants.

I agree. nd is one of those instances where the painted helmets were just a superior look to the hydroskinned vesions. Regardless of the fact that they more accurately portray the golden dome better they new helmets just don't look as good on field. The khaki pants are also inferior to the shiny old gold. Their all time best look was with champion/reebok when they added the dome to the collar and had contrasting gold collar/cuffs.

So the Rams had the custom numerals for the unveil and the preseason, went to block numbers for the regular season, and then back to the custom ones for the following season? That's even stranger than I remember.

Did they ever actually use Berthold City for the nameplates, as was the case on replica jerseys for the first couple of years?

It was a real head scratcher for sure. Not sure what the issue was because I don't think the non block font changed the following season unlike the JAGS which had to completely ditch their skinny drop shadow custom font and adopt a new one (legibility I assume) for the regular season.

Looks like the Saints strongly considered switching to serif numbers (and white numbers at home) in 2000:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2000-NFL-NEW-ORLEANS-SAINTS-PROTO-TYPE-PRESENTATION-COMPLETE-UNIFORM-IN-BOX-/111429370284?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19f1b541ac

But this could be an eBay hoax, but glad they didn't. They look way too much like the Ravens, sans purple.

That would've been a huge upgrade, except for the white pants.

That number font in gold outlined in white would have worked too. The white numbers with stripeless pants and black-white-black helmet stripes would have been almost a carbon-copy of Purdue.

EDIT: didn't see the black stripe on the pants with the logo (those pants must be from 2002 or later because of the NFL Equipment logo).

As it was mentioned the pants have the equipment logo whilst the jersey only has the shield. Also it looks like champion's last season as their supplier was '96. Given the inconsistencies, I'm going to say it's an elaborate fake.

I completely agree about stirrups. They are obsolete by definition. Also to clarify the early stirrup was simply a colored sock with the heel and forefoot removed. The ribboned stirrups with exposed sanitary look from the 60-80's was actually a non-traditional and pointless look and actually has no place in baseball.

I'm all for colored socks and prefer them over long pants but stirrups are simply not the answer. They were a stop gap measure from a bygone era.

I also would prefer that nfl teams had the option to go with non-white bottom socks. The bottom white half is pointless and the nfl has a past history with a 100% dark sock.

I'm not sure how unpopular this is, but I often see this uniform getting a lot of love.

I hate the Bulls black pinstripe alts from the 90s, absolutely hate them.

There is only one person who these Bulls black-pinstripe unis would be perfect for:

Once he left, they would look very awkward at whoever wore them.

The lack of the pentagons on the shorts gives the set a downgrade in my book. The bull just looks lost on the pinstriped short. Also I think the pins could have been thicker.

1. If grey/silver isn't in your colour scheme, you shouldn't wear a grey facemask. I don't care if its traditional.

2. If black isn't part of your colour scheme, you shouldn't wear black shoes. Use team colours. I don't care if its traditional.

3. The nike matte pants look better than the shiny ones.

1. if it's a classic team with a classic uniform they get a pass (cardinals don't, colt's do)

2. same as 1

3. depends on if the color is suppose to be shiny or not (old silver and gold pants>new matte one, new colored pants>old shiny ones)

Again, I don't care if its a 'classic'. Every time I see those uniforms I can't help but think how much better the 49ers would look with a red facemask, the colts with a blue one, etc. Same goes for the shoes.

A red facemask would stand out on the 49ers' helmets in a way the grey masks just don't, to the overall look's benifit.

The previous set was superior to the current retro in every way and looks so much better in retrospect. With a few tweaks it would have been awesome: convert black shadow to outline, remove sleeve/pant logos, and lighten the red a bit. Done.

Never had a good look? That first sweater was a modern classic, and the second one had an appropriately progressive feel for a Silicon Valley team at the turn of the millennium. Even with the little flaws in the 2007-2013 set (the concavity in the shark triangle, the redundant secondary, the two-layer nameplates, the orange), the Sharks still had a unique color and a solid design. This is just a chipaway of a good-if-not-great look with none of the flaws resolved and more flaws added, to say nothing of a justification that insulted everyone's intelligence.

They were nice, to be sure, but I wouldn't use the "C" word. That logo was awfully cartoony and got dated quickly; the Edge update did wonders to help them out in that respect.

The current logo has much more of a cartoony/over-designed/minor league feel than the original.

It's only a matter of time before the original set comes back in some form.

"Well the photo quality doesn't look great but honestly it looks like you got exactly what you paid for."

do you mean they look the same as they do on the site?, or do you mean they look cheap?? I really like the ducks one, I would recommend getting one they look fantastic and are a neat addition to my jersey collection

Yeah since the ducks jersey was supposed ot be rec leauge in the movie it looks fine. The rest completely DIY. The numbers/wordmarks look bubbly and uneven. I see what appear to be loose threads fonts, that are almost there, odd tag placement. Looks like what I'd expect if I asked somebody to make me a jersey based on a photo of an authentic jersey.

I finally gave in and made an order at www.ecseller.com

I got some items that looked great and then I also got a packers jersey that you could see the glue under the stiched numbers. However I did get some very nice jerseys

The best of all of them was the mighty ducks jersey from the first movie, the numbering is kind of cheap. but the jerseys material is superior quality to any fakes I have ever seen

and then I got a red Jays Jersey, the material on the jersey is great , however it always seems the numbers are a bit off. but this one is good none the less for 33$

then finally i got an orioles ripken jersey, this one was quite close. but the piping was made with cheap material

all in all i must say i was impressed with what I got for so cheap,

on a side note I wish this thread was more about people showing what you can get for these prices rather than arguing about whether its right or not to buy fake, personally I just had to try it out.

Well the photo quality doesn't look great but honestly it looks like you got exactly what you paid for.

I don't buy counterfeits because I am pretty particular about fonts, numbers, and materials. At the same time, if I did choose to buy them, I wouldn't feel bad about it in the least. The designers definitely deserve to be compensated, obviously, but when you have companies like Nike (as 9erssteve pointed out) paying their labor 25 cents an hour to sew $10 worth of fabric together, they deserve to be screwed. It isn't even about the base cost, because there's a price to be paid for quality, and I don't mind paying it, as I have around 20 authentic NHL jerseys, some of which are 20 years old. My problem lies with the labor.

Yes, they do have the authority to charge whatever they want for a jersey. In a lot of cases, the costs are going up while quality goes down (see: Edge 1.0). No problem...I can vote with my wallet and just not buy it. But seriously, people here get high and mighty about Nike not getting their money, but no one cares that they're paying a 10 year old Asian kid 10 cents an hour with no bathroom breaks to make them. So let's get off of the high horse. If you're going to be up in arms about Nike or Adidas not getting their money, you should also be pissed about their labor practices.

this has nothing to do with high and mighty...I'm not justifying the price point but you're completely ignoring the cost of shipping, overstock distribution not to mention the multiple entities that get a share of the margin...what you are seeing with many types of products in the marketplace is a trend toward raising the price points which prices some consumers out of the market but allows for higher margins at the expense of loyal consumers.

Right, but that's not really what I meant. I understand that there's a cost to doing business. My main point isn't so much about the final cost of the product, it's about the final cost coupled with labor costs. If you're going to charge so much, you should at least pay your labor force. And since you mentioned shipping costs, it's a lot cheaper to ship a jersey from a factory in Missouri than from China.

I'm totally on board with fair trade. It's disgusting hearing about the labor conditions in some countries. Just look at what happened at that garment factory in Malaysia

I don't buy counterfeits because I am pretty particular about fonts, numbers, and materials. At the same time, if I did choose to buy them, I wouldn't feel bad about it in the least. The designers definitely deserve to be compensated, obviously, but when you have companies like Nike (as 9erssteve pointed out) paying their labor 25 cents an hour to sew $10 worth of fabric together, they deserve to be screwed. It isn't even about the base cost, because there's a price to be paid for quality, and I don't mind paying it, as I have around 20 authentic NHL jerseys, some of which are 20 years old. My problem lies with the labor.

Yes, they do have the authority to charge whatever they want for a jersey. In a lot of cases, the costs are going up while quality goes down (see: Edge 1.0). No problem...I can vote with my wallet and just not buy it. But seriously, people here get high and mighty about Nike not getting their money, but no one cares that they're paying a 10 year old Asian kid 10 cents an hour with no bathroom breaks to make them. So let's get off of the high horse. If you're going to be up in arms about Nike or Adidas not getting their money, you should also be pissed about their labor practices.

this has nothing to do with high and mighty...I'm not justifying the price point but you're completely ignoring the cost of shipping, overstock distribution not to mention the multiple entities that get a share of the margin...what you are seeing with many types of products in the marketplace is a trend toward raising the price points which prices some consumers out of the market but allows for higher margins at the expense of loyal consumers.

Nothing you say (with the exceptions of some wording I may tweak) is untrue. But I find your focus to be a little too much on the IP owners and not enough on the actual perpetrators. Inflated prices may "lead" to this, but they are not an excuse. The bottom line is that I don't have a right to a jersey and some "business" does not have the right to sell something created by someone else. They have that right no more than I have the right to make cola and sell it as "Pepsi."

The main beef I have with this post is "There's blame to be had on both sides". I don't agree. The owners could protect themselves more, but the burden should not be on them

In any case, since we've moved on from "analogygate" there's not much more to say that has not been said in the previous 117 pages....

Actually I disagree somewhat having dealt with this issue first hand. A couple of points.

• We can all agree that counterfeiting is IP theft and illegal in the US.
  
• Purchasing all counterfeit goods is also illegal but rarely enforced.
  
• IP owners can often unintentionally create a market for counterfeits by pricing out or restricting supply to segments of their customer base.
  
• It's often up to the IP owners to enforce their own anti-counterfeiting measures due to lack of law enforcement resources.
  
• IP owners need to factor the cost of counterfeiting/lost sales/damage to the brand when bringing their product to market.
  

In a nutshell, counterfeiting is illegal but also a cost of doing business if you are an IP owner.

i've also downloaded a few albums in my life, and downloaded a movie that i just as well could have rented...

I've thought about this a couple times before. Does it make someone a hypocrite to download music while chastising someone for buying a knockoff jerseys?

Short answer: No!

Long answer: Musician, both on major and independent levels, make the vast majority of the money from things other than music sales. They get so little money from stuff sold in stores or online. Merchandise sales, record sales at shows, and shows themselves bring in far more money. Hell, I know of several musicians/bands that tell their fans to download and if they want to help out the band, buy merch/tickets.

Do designers have the ability to go on tour and sell merch/tickets to make money? No.

I have a question. Do designers make royalties for the number of jerseys sold? And I so does it vary from company to company?

Designers are paid for their work. From that point, the team owns all the rights to the logo/jersey/wordmark.

So because the designer doesn't make royalties so it's ok to buy knockoffs?

Uhh, when did he say that?

And to contribute to the thread, I'm not really sure how I feel about fakes. I mean I personally wouldn't wear one but i also don't wear jerseys anyways, that's just me. If people want to walk around looking ridiculous then more power to them. I always laugh when I see a fake because they look so bad, I don't even have to be familiar with the team or even the sport for that matter to be able to spot a fake jersey from a mile away.

I lean towards the belief that the people who buy fakes for the most part wouldn't pay 250 for a real one if the option to buy a fake didn't exist at all, so the NFL isn't losing out on too much profit. I mean the people who search google for "cheap nfl jersey website" probably wouldn't in a million years fork out hundreds for a jersey if that was their only option for a jersey.

Possibly, but they could have used the money the spent on a fake to by a licensed t-shirt, sweatshirt, etc... from nfl.com or any licensed retailer.

or even DIY which I believe is legal as long as you don't resell it

i've also downloaded a few albums in my life, and downloaded a movie that i just as well could have rented...

i sleep okay at night, and don't care if that bothers anyone else.

the statement stands.

claiming to collect jerseys, but having your collection be counterfeits, is exactly like having a collection of baseball cards that you print on your own printer. it's silly, and i'd call it a crappy collection.

that said, buying a knockoff jersey to wear casually is more like printing out a poster of your favorite movie or your favorite painting to hang in your office. it's not as fancy or prestigious as the real thing, and it doesn't allow the owners/artists/actors to profit... but not everyone really cares about that.

obviously most people here do. and i respect that.

99% of my aversion to counterfeits is actually quality and accuracy. you hand me a jersey that looks good enough to be legit, and i'd wear it. it's rare to find, but it exists... and it's not that big of a deal to me.

that's why despite my love of this forum and this community, this thread annoys me to no end. it's just a bunch of holier than thou lars ulrichs piling on every time anyone posts anything.

Theft is theft...if you like paying for and wearing counterfeit goods more power to you...just because you didn't steal the design and manufacture a copy yourself you are still within an arms length of the transaction...the other point being the authorities have the right to confiscate your knock-off jersey from right off your back if deemed counterfeit.

There's a decent documentary on cnbc on knock off goods and what they show is a huge sting operation where both the buyer and seller are arrested. You could maybe learn a thing or two from watching it.

In regard to metallica, they own all of their copyrights outright which is very uncommon for a band which is why they were so pissed. If you saw a few million $ of sales being siphoned off from from your business you'd be pissed too.

that's a really good argument, jigokusabre... and i'm an owner of a few knockoffs that sees both sides of the argument.

There's only one argument and you'e on the wrong side of it.

I completely agree. I can't imagine how ticked I'd be if I ordered a jersey off ebay expecting one thing and get some of these knockoffs instead. I'd be irate.

What I find ridiculous is how people justify buying the product. I didn't even realize how big the counterfeit market was until a few years ago. I had gotten an authentic Blackhawks jersey for Christmas and I'm still pretty proud of the jersey till this day. I'd say sometime in February, a buddy of mine told me he had gotten three authentic jerseys for less than the price of one. I was pretty interested so I went over to his house and when I saw what he had, I couldn't believe he would accept the jersey as a substitute. He even stood up for the jerseys after I showed him mine.

Going to a Bears game is always fun because after lurking here for so long and then becoming a member, I've gained so much knowledge that it's become quite easy to spot the fakes. However, some are just plain obvious. I'm sure many of you know the Bears "Monsters of the Midway" jersey. For the last two years that I've gone to games, there's atleast one person that has that jersey, but the numbers aren't orange, they're RED. Why on Earth would you even wear that in public? If wearing an "authentic" jersey is that important to you that you'd go out and buy a knockoff, then wouldn't you want it to atleast look the same?

I don't buy the whole, "well I'd rather wear a jersey than a t-shirt" arguement either. I've never gone once to a sporting event and judged someone if they were wearing a t-shirt instead of a jersey EXCEPT when that jersey was clearly a counterfiet.

I don't agree with counterfeiting at all but the leagues have created this mess themselves by pricing so many people out of the market and like others have said the budget jerseys that have been created are just a joke.

The addition of burnt orange to the San Jose Sharks colour scheme is a vast upgrade.

Agreed. The current Home is the best jersey in Sharks history. Just remove the front numbers

absolutely not...the original black/teal/silver was perfect and should have never changed

I can't find the "Ridiculous Fakes on Ebay" thread, but this is close enough.

Game-worn Terrell Owens 49ers jersey!

while not game worn it looks like a legit fashion jersey

I'm not going to praise purchasing bootlegs because it is apparently illegal and I got into small trouble because of it. But there is still an important issue that has to be raised (I guess it was, it just got lost within other arguments), namely IP abuse by copyright holders. I understand that among the community like this one people value every detail but most of the fans don't care if the collar is a little bit thicker or the number slightly bigger than it should be. They want to show the support for their team and do not spend significant share of their salary for it. I agree that buying counterfeits is not a solution because that actually means a financial loss for the team. However, by buying replicas you lose the money yourself. I bought myself Orlando Magic replica jersey when I was in USA 3 years ago (swingman appeared too expensive for me). After wearing it a couple of times and before washing it even once, the numbers started to peal off already, meaning I cannot really use it anymore. I do realize that 50$ is a low price comparing to authentics but still too much for such crap. The soccer replicas come practically in one price category (I know that techfit versions become more accessible now but you won't get them in most of the shops) but at least they can be used for doing sports and washed many times. By selling replicas, NBA is just fooling the customers. I have no pity for people being cheated when buying bootlegs (including myself) but a purchase of a licensed apparell does not guarantee anything either.

here are your options if you feel that the officially licensed product is inferior and not worth your money

- don't make additional purchases in the future

- make your own replica since DIY is legal

One thing that nobody has seemed to acknowledge in this thread is that most people who buy counterfeit jerseys do not realize that what they're buying is fake.

because i think an integral element to people who unknowingly buy them are that they do so when looking for "a deal" on an authentic jersey. that's the people trolling ebay for an "authentic" for $40 or falling victim to the sports bar owner who can "get ya a good deal."

there's an easy was to know what you're buying is legit: get it from a licensed retailer. there are enough ways to do that (modells, dicks, sports authority, respective team stores, etc.) without snapping up a counterfeit jersey by accident. if you're a savvy buyer, you can wait it out and get the latest jerseys on sale when mo's or someone else has a big sale.

and if in doubt, ask! all my friends know me as the guy who has a lot of jerseys. when they tell me they're looking to get a specific jersey, as they often do, i always ask them to consult me first so they get something legit and of good quality for a reasonable price.

you mean the guys walking through stadium parking lots selling jerseys out of trash bags aren't selling licensed merch? and I'm sure swap meet vendors are all legit as well right?

I don't think Federal Law Enforcement are a bunch of busy bodies or self righteous.

If you ever get in trouble for a manufactured crime, you'll see where I'm coming from. If you never have, then you might not see where I am coming from.

Oh, and I don't believe that you aren't a criminal. That's bull . If you have ever driven over the speed limit, then you are a criminal. Or do you selectively break whichever laws you want, and then complain when other people break laws that you "feel" matter?

Finally you posted something I agree with. Law enforcement is a bureaucracy and the amount of unnecessary ones will make your head spin. Though I'm not justifying counterfeit jerseys.

care to provide some examples of unnecessary laws?

went to the bears/broncos game on sunday and I was shocked to see the amount of counterfeit jerseys at the stadium worn by both sides...I honestly think 40-50% of the jerseys that were worn were total fakes with the absolute worst offenders being the m&n throwbacks that had about a 10% authenticity rate.

I knew fakes were out there and they had a share of the market but the nfl has a real problem on its hands, especially if they keep taking their prices up on replicas, fakes will outnumber legit product.

Here are pictures of my Tebow jersey from DH Gate. The color looks kind of off in the pictures, it's a correct shade of orange, or at least compared to the Bronco's replica jerseys. Sorry for the bad quality.

Definitely not the best fake I have ever seen, but definitely not the worst either. I am happy with it for the price I paid, only like $30. I usually don't buy fakes, but the Broncos aren't my favorite team and I didn't feel like spending the money. I just love Tebow and wanted his jersey. I am pleased with it.

other than the pic quality being terrible what immediately pops is the number spacing is waaay too crammed and left justified...someone needs to show them how to use the ms "center" tool to get the placement correct each time

Oh and another thing:

Even when you buy an authentic from an official seller- you're still not getting a legit on-field jersey. They don't have the draw-string sleeves or anything like that. So you're kind of getting duped anyway in to thinking you're getting the real deal when you aren't.

Exactly. I have a hard time believing that an "authentic" is really worth the $300 price tag if it isn't even on the field. You can't tell me that a real player's jersey costs more. If so it would cost an astounding amount to dress a football team.

an on field uniform does cost a ton of $$$...considering they are typically domestically made with a ton of skilled of manual labor required...throw in reinforced materials and custom specs you get to several hundred dollars per uniform.

for the fan authentics there's different constraints that factor in...sure your costs of goods are lower due to overseas and more efficient construction with slightly lesser materials plus economies and scale may cause the total cost to be around $50-$75 cogs/unit the marketing costs and and % of revenue based on the contracts that must split proceeds between labels/players/leagues which drives the $300 price point.

Nice post. I don't think the teams should turn the fans away at the gate, but just like some arenas won't let you bring in a "professional" camera, it sure would be fun to see them announce a week ahead of time that they are not getting in wearing a fake jersey and make them take it back to the car before they get in.

If they did do that, a large number of people would be outed for having bought unsuspecting relatives fakes who didn't know they had been given one. We sure had that come up a lot at the store last year.

Not being allowed to bring something in has always been a fear, as I show up to most games via public transportation. Like if I am coming from work with an umbrella or something...

Anyway, this may be feasible but I think the teams would have to promote the heck out of it so as to not catch people by surprise. They may even have to have a "coat check" system where the fans can get it on the way out, as opposed to confiscating. The bottom line is that people feel they are paying a lot to go to the game and that they paid their hard-earned money for the jersey, which they did not even realize was "fake".

I wonder whether one of the reasons they don't try this is that it's hard to not find enough "enforcers" that can actually tell the difference. Another problem the "enforcers" may have is the person that ruins a perfectly legit item with a sloppy customization...they may bust someone with a licensed product.

I am surprised more teams have not done anything to educate their fans the way Montreal did in some way, any way at all.

I certainly agree with you here. At the very least, get out via web posters in the pro-shop, etc. that points out 1) the differences and 2) the theft aspect, if only to get a few people to understand. I assume (but I suppose I may be wrong) that most of the people I see wearing the fakes don't really understand that they are fake/illegally-produced either because they don't understand "officially licensed", don't realize just how "off" it looks, or accept that replicas are not going to have perfect detail (which is the case often...e.g., when MLB used to have nice looking replica jerseys with one-color block #s and names for all teams).

That's a naive point of view. Most just don't care when it saves them $100-200 over an authentic. I also think the NFL at least (and its member teams) are unlikely to mount such a campaign because someone in the media would surely tear down the price of a jersey to show the profit margin. The inevitable backlash against the ridiculously high prices they charge for authentics when the NFL is raking in billions would not be good PR for the league or the teams. Can you imagine some reporter walking into a place that's probably right down the block from where the fakes are made and talking about how the people making your authentic Tom Brady jersey are making $1.50 a day, if they make their quota? That may be an exaggeration, but who knows?

They're already flailing around about how to get more people to the stadium on game day and seem unable to grasp that charging $100+ for nosebleed tickets and $30-50 for parking isn't the way to start. The last thing they need or want is bad press on merchandise pricing.

Are people who buy fakes depriving the league of revenue if, had they not bought a fake, they woudn't have bought a jersey at all? If so, how?

Opportunity cost. The money spent on a fake could have gone to a shirt etc... at NFL.com or at the stadium.

Or a car payment.

I like the idea but who is going to be the judge of whether a jersey is a counterfeit?..some of the walmart/jc penney level replicas look just as fake with their shoddy screen jobs, truncated striping, and omitted details etc.

the leagues reap what they sow...first off any business that offshores production is setting themselves up since intellectual property laws are not respected overseas...next is the fact that by continuing to jack up prices for replicas and authentics and in many instances sacrificing quality for the sake of margins they created a market for a product that is better than an official replica but does not have the accuracy of an authentic or even inaccuracies...there is a sweet spot in pricing that the leagues have not yet found...unfortunately what's screwing them and keeping the market for bootlegs going is not the cost to manufacture but the multitude of royalties that must be paid our to the various parties.