charger77

Here's a thought: People who want to buy knockoffs, can buy knockoffs. People who don't want to buy knockoffs, don't buy knockoffs.

You didn't learn anything about the law in college?

It sucks that knock-offs even exist but for apparently "sub-standard" people like college kids or poorer people, acquiring an actual authentic (licensed) jersey is impossible. I bought a jersey off of website and it looks allright, but more likely than not is it a counterfeit. Sure, it's bad, but it only cost me $60 which is the "sweet-spot" for my means. I got a license CBJ Alt Customized jersey over Christmas, but that was a special present. It's not fair to look down on the buyers as much as it is to look down on the sellers.

Just my pitch.

~Brett

So, if a person can't afford it they should break the law?

-Dan

Nice post. I don't think the teams should turn the fans away at the gate, but just like some arenas won't let you bring in a "professional" camera, it sure would be fun to see them announce a week ahead of time that they are not getting in wearing a fake jersey and make them take it back to the car before they get in.

If they did do that, a large number of people would be outed for having bought unsuspecting relatives fakes who didn't know they had been given one. We sure had that come up a lot at the store last year.

Not being allowed to bring something in has always been a fear, as I show up to most games via public transportation. Like if I am coming from work with an umbrella or something...

Anyway, this may be feasible but I think the teams would have to promote the heck out of it so as to not catch people by surprise. They may even have to have a "coat check" system where the fans can get it on the way out, as opposed to confiscating. The bottom line is that people feel they are paying a lot to go to the game and that they paid their hard-earned money for the jersey, which they did not even realize was "fake".

I wonder whether one of the reasons they don't try this is that it's hard to not find enough "enforcers" that can actually tell the difference. Another problem the "enforcers" may have is the person that ruins a perfectly legit item with a sloppy customization...they may bust someone with a licensed product.

I am surprised more teams have not done anything to educate their fans the way Montreal did in some way, any way at all.

I certainly agree with you here. At the very least, get out via web posters in the pro-shop, etc. that points out 1) the differences and 2) the theft aspect, if only to get a few people to understand. I assume (but I suppose I may be wrong) that most of the people I see wearing the fakes don't really understand that they are fake/illegally-produced either because they don't understand "officially licensed", don't realize just how "off" it looks, or accept that replicas are not going to have perfect detail (which is the case often...e.g., when MLB used to have nice looking replica jerseys with one-color block #s and names for all teams).

That's a naive point of view. Most just don't care when it saves them $100-200 over an authentic. I also think the NFL at least (and its member teams) are unlikely to mount such a campaign because someone in the media would surely tear down the price of a jersey to show the profit margin. The inevitable backlash against the ridiculously high prices they charge for authentics when the NFL is raking in billions would not be good PR for the league or the teams. Can you imagine some reporter walking into a place that's probably right down the block from where the fakes are made and talking about how the people making your authentic Tom Brady jersey are making $1.50 a day, if they make their quota? That may be an exaggeration, but who knows?

They're already flailing around about how to get more people to the stadium on game day and seem unable to grasp that charging $100+ for nosebleed tickets and $30-50 for parking isn't the way to start. The last thing they need or want is bad press on merchandise pricing.

Are people who buy fakes depriving the league of revenue if, had they not bought a fake, they woudn't have bought a jersey at all? If so, how?

Opportunity cost. The money spent on a fake could have gone to a shirt etc... at NFL.com or at the stadium.

The other thing that bugs me are people wearing fakes who come over and check the price of legit ones to "see how much they saved". Well, they spent less, but since they didn't buy a real jersey, they didn't "save" anything, they just paid less for something that is worth less. Big difference.

Absolutely, these are ignorent people with no knowledge of jerseys, sports logos, or anything else to do with them. Im sure most people on these boards pity these people. They will never know the joy of purchasing an authentic jersey, knowing its the real thing and being able to know why.

It's hard for me to not make a joke about misspelling "ignorant." You walked right into that one. But I won't say anything else about that.

I disagree with you guys, I consider myself to be very knowledgeable about sports logos, but that wouldn't necessarily stop me from buying a fake. I mean it's not like I actually play for the team. As long as the fake doesn't have blatant errors, I would have no problem buying and wearing it. I think I would get more "joy" out of buying a fake and being able to buy something else with the money I saved, than supposed joy gotten from buying an authentic. And I guess that's what makes people different.

We are all very impressed with your ability to catch grammatical errors. Your opinions and knowledge of Jerseys... not so much. Ignorance is claiming that these counterfeit jerseys do not have blatant errors in a 12 page thread dedicated to pointing them out. If you had bothered to read the thread I am sure you would have seen things like the Flames jersey having the logo backwards, the Team USA World Juniors jersey having a Team Canada tag and every other Counterfeit rag sporting oversized, wrinkled crests that look nothing like the real thing. What takes the cake however is that you have the audacity to brag the money you saved by purchasing these rags on a message board populated by the designers who are getting ripped off by people like you. That is Ignorance.

Yeah, but some people speed on the free way so it evens out.

The other thing that bugs me are people wearing fakes who come over and check the price of legit ones to "see how much they saved". Well, they spent less, but since they didn't buy a real jersey, they didn't "save" anything, they just paid less for something that is worth less. Big difference.

Absolutely, these are ignorent people with no knowledge of jerseys, sports logos, or anything else to do with them. Im sure most people on these boards pity these people. They will never know the joy of purchasing an authentic jersey, knowing its the real thing and being able to know why.

It's hard for me to not make a joke about misspelling "ignorant." You walked right into that one. But I won't say anything else about that.

I disagree with you guys, I consider myself to be very knowledgeable about sports logos, but that wouldn't necessarily stop me from buying a fake. I mean it's not like I actually play for the team. As long as the fake doesn't have blatant errors, I would have no problem buying and wearing it. I think I would get more "joy" out of buying a fake and being able to buy something else with the money I saved, than supposed joy gotten from buying an authentic. And I guess that's what makes people different.

Blatant error = Illegal item w/stolen artwork?

"Joy" = Using the saving from the purchase of illegal items?

I meant a blatantly noticeable error. Like a wrong letter, or wrong font, or something like that. Not the fact that it's illegal in and of itself.

And I didn't want to steer the discussion back to this, but here we go: Do you ever exceed the speed limit while driving? Then I guess you drive illegally.

#1 Speeding is a victimless crime, intellectual property theft is not. Speeding is a civil infraction where as theft is a crime.

#2 Since I drive a company car I do not speed out of fear/concern of tickets or trouble at work.

Speeding is not a victimless crime. It is one of the leading causes of automobile accidents. I say this as a former NHTSA Engineer (and someone with more than half a brain).

I'm not saying that intellectual property theft is not a crime (I have also worked as a Patent Examiner at the USPTO), but to say that speeding is less serious of a crime than IP theft is completely asinine.

Let me clear it up for you (and yes I know your a college grad) but...

Driving 75 in a 70 is a victimless civil infraction.

A car accident is not a crime either.

Driving 75 in a 70, then hitting somebody due to wrecklessness or driver neglect is something different.

However, this thread is about counterfitting. It may not be the worst crime in the world, but it is one none the less.

The other thing that bugs me are people wearing fakes who come over and check the price of legit ones to "see how much they saved". Well, they spent less, but since they didn't buy a real jersey, they didn't "save" anything, they just paid less for something that is worth less. Big difference.

Absolutely, these are ignorent people with no knowledge of jerseys, sports logos, or anything else to do with them. Im sure most people on these boards pity these people. They will never know the joy of purchasing an authentic jersey, knowing its the real thing and being able to know why.

It's hard for me to not make a joke about misspelling "ignorant." You walked right into that one. But I won't say anything else about that.

I disagree with you guys, I consider myself to be very knowledgeable about sports logos, but that wouldn't necessarily stop me from buying a fake. I mean it's not like I actually play for the team. As long as the fake doesn't have blatant errors, I would have no problem buying and wearing it. I think I would get more "joy" out of buying a fake and being able to buy something else with the money I saved, than supposed joy gotten from buying an authentic. And I guess that's what makes people different.

Blatant error = Illegal item w/stolen artwork?

"Joy" = Using the saving from the purchase of illegal items?

I meant a blatantly noticeable error. Like a wrong letter, or wrong font, or something like that. Not the fact that it's illegal in and of itself.

And I didn't want to steer the discussion back to this, but here we go: Do you ever exceed the speed limit while driving? Then I guess you drive illegally.

#1 Speeding is a victimless crime, intellectual property theft is not. Speeding is a civil infraction where as theft is a crime.

#2 Since I drive a company car I do not speed out of fear/concern of tickets or trouble at work.

The other thing that bugs me are people wearing fakes who come over and check the price of legit ones to "see how much they saved". Well, they spent less, but since they didn't buy a real jersey, they didn't "save" anything, they just paid less for something that is worth less. Big difference.

Absolutely, these are ignorent people with no knowledge of jerseys, sports logos, or anything else to do with them. Im sure most people on these boards pity these people. They will never know the joy of purchasing an authentic jersey, knowing its the real thing and being able to know why.

It's hard for me to not make a joke about misspelling "ignorant." You walked right into that one. But I won't say anything else about that.

I disagree with you guys, I consider myself to be very knowledgeable about sports logos, but that wouldn't necessarily stop me from buying a fake. I mean it's not like I actually play for the team. As long as the fake doesn't have blatant errors, I would have no problem buying and wearing it. I think I would get more "joy" out of buying a fake and being able to buy something else with the money I saved, than supposed joy gotten from buying an authentic. And I guess that's what makes people different.

Blatant error = Illegal item w/stolen artwork?

"Joy" = Using the saving from the purchase of illegal items?

This one had me laughing for a while

Thank goodness he never had to wear those.

Actually, I remember in my sophmore year in college (1999-2000) a guy in the cafeteria had a dark blue and copper Gretzky oilers jersey. This was in the pre-ccslc & pre-counterfit days. Nobody at my table could understand my rage at that jersey. I then proceded to wear my correct Gretzky jersey to the cafeteria for a week straight to prove my point.

The sad thing was, that kid probably paid a lot of money for his jersey and it was a top rate sewing job, just the wrong jersey.

We do remember Sammy Sosa as a Cubs player... but watch him with the old Rangers jersey and the old ChiSox jersey...!!!

Legend in the wrong hair?

Good point.

Buy a better ccm/koho jersey on ebay and you don't give counterfeiters your money and rbk may notice as well.

The "A" and 11s are off too.

The Stars 1999 Stanley Cup Ring:

i just had to take this opportunity to brag

here's me wearing brett hull's 1999 stanley cup ring.

and here are some pics of me and brett together, as proof

watching the game.

me posing like a nerdy nerdy excited fan.

last season me and some friends won tickets to watch mike modano's final game with the dallas stars in a luxury box with brett hull. he wore the ring, i commented on it, and he insisted i try it on.

absolutely blew my mind.

When I was 18 my dad and I bumped into Mike Keenan at the Hockey Hall of Fame. He was the same way with his 1994 Rangers ring. He was much nicer than expected.

I love pointing out fakes at school to other kids and describing what's wrong with them.

I went to a Jackets/Hawks game in Columbus last spring with the gf. By the 2nd period she was picking out the Chicago fakes!

-Dan

This should solve some of the debate regarding counterfit jerseys and the American Revolution:

...

I have a Penguins jersey from the Mellon Arena official team store whose crest is bubbling. Idk if that's from so much use and washing, or if there's something wrong with it. But, bubbling should not be your only indicator.

I'm really surprised that nobody's played devil's advocate here and said something to the effect of "the American founding fathers were committing illegal acts when they declared independence." Could there be a positive aspect, one of protest perhaps, to the illegality angle?

again, this is coming from an avid jersey collector who spots fakes all the time, and to my knowledge, has no fakes. I'm just trying to see all sides, and so far, nobody has challenged those who have been touting the illegality argument

No taxation without representation and the quest for liberty does not equate to I want a cheaper jersey.

So, I have a whole lotta jerseys. But, I wanted to show three here. One is authentic; one is fake; the other I'm not really sure given the price paid for it. I'm curious, just from these pictures, who can tell the difference...

From a distance, I think it's rather hard to tell. Get up close (or enlarge the photo) and the fake is obvious. Two of these jerseys cost $40, the other $85 (on sale). But, can you tell me which is which...?

Yeah the Pats is the biggest fake of them all. Someone mentioned about the tail on the Twins script, but the shirt looks folded over on that part, so might wanna re-examine that.

Huh.. well shows you what I know. The Twins one is fake. And, apparently the Patriots one is too, but I was never sure; the fact that it had actual patches that were sewn on and not a graphic that was actually "embroidered" onto the jersey made me optimistic (see what happens when you go shopping at yard sales). The Indians is authentic.

Thanks for playing...

It was the faded and bubbled up 12 that gave it away on the Brady jersey.

Is the Brady the fake?

grown men shouldnt wear jerseys anyway.

Odd thing for a member of the CCSLC to say.

Could always use a thread ripper and remove the lettering/numbering.

One of my favorite China fakes:

Those are the fan/fashion jerseys that always sell at Super Bowl time.

Ever think of taking advantage of an "internet deal"?

Here is their "quality"

Most of these sites have pop-up "customer service" boxes where the sales rep admitted to me that the jerseys are counterfit... his words!

Low quality China jerseys.

Take a look at their hockey jerseys. They can't get a font type or size correct to save their lives.

Their North Star Ns are way to big, same with the Whaler logos.

Their Blackhawk 1s are in correct.

The materials used on letters number and patches don't seem to be the high quality material.

You definately get what you pay for.

More Blackhawks in replicas.

That 2 really looks like the 2 that the Avalanche use.