DG_ThenNowForever

The NBA is a far, far bigger priority for the Seattle/Bellevue area. I add Bellevue because any new arena is much more likely to be built in the suburbs any time soon. There's money and political/private leadership to get something done, whereas in Seattle we're sitting on our thumbs wondering where to build bike lanes (we have a pretty worthless mayor with a pretty limited constituency right now).

An NHL team in the Seattle area would likely be a tagalong benefit to getting the Sonics back, but far from a driver of any arena effort.

How would Boise State NOT make sense? Just because they never played in a legitimate conference? I'm sure if the Pac-12 could lure Texas over, they would be willing to make some adjustments to their TV schedules or do whatever they need to do with negotiating with ESPN or whoever runs the TV contract, to bring Texas in.

The Stanford caliber schools will never consort with a jumped-up community college. They've said as much.

To add, and I may be naive here, Boise doesn't have any other worthwhile athletics (like basketball, at the least). The Pac-12 is collectively competitive in every sport.

If WVU leaves for the SEC (and honestly I wouldn't blame them with the BE's mismanagement), say goodbye to the Big East as a football conference. In that case, I hope the ACC's ready to take in Syracuse/UConn/USF/whoever the B10 doesn't touch between Pitt and Rutgers

The Big East managed to live without Miami and Virginia Tech, so I assume that losing WVU wouldn't be that big of a deal. Plus, those Big XII schools have to go somewhere; what's to keep any of them from joining the Big East?

People have been predicting the death of the Big East ever since the BCS started. It hasn't happened yet, and I don't think WVU moving to the SEC would do it.

A football school breakaway or kicking out basketball schools (remember: the basketball teams would now be a minority as opposed to the current 8/8, or 9/8 when TCU joins, setup as it is now) will see the Big East lose programs like Nova (if they don't join in football), Seton Hall, and Georgetown but also the likes of Depaul and Providence. Big East/whatever a new conference would be called would still feature UConn, Louisville, Pitt, Syracuse, WVU, Kansas, and Kansas State in basketball and still be one of, if not the, top basketball leagues.

More intrigue might be Notre Dame. If everything goes to 16-team football conferences where do they go? Take their entire athletic program to the Big 10, finally join the Big East in football, fall into irrelevance?

The Big East added Depaul to get to 16 teams when it added Louisville and others in the 2000s. They could easily drop them again (and Notre Dame in all non-football sports once and for all). Adding Kansas, K-State and Missouri is a coup for both sports, but an overall loss for basketball tradition. We'll see.

Keyshawn Johnson

What in your opinion is his right jersey?

Yeah -- Keyshawn's a Jet. I thought everyone knew that.

What he wants to happen and what actually happens are two totally different things.

It's a discussion for another time, but I think it's really dumb the Hall of Fame changed their rules so that they select the player's hat for them. Would it really have killed us to see Boggs go in with a Devil Rays cap?

The Seattle Center campus (where Key Arena and the Space Needle are now) is a great location for an NBA/NHL arena. However, given that none of our local billionaires want to pay to put an arena there, Bellevue -- where most of the billionaires live -- may seem right, but doesn't make too much sense to me.

Bellevue is about a 20 minute drive from downtown Seattle, more or less depending on traffic. It's across Lake Washington, and is only accessibly by two bridges -- one of which is old and will be replaced in the next five years and the other that's undergoing conversion for light rail in the later half of the decade. No NBA or NHL team in Bellevue would be successful without support from Seattle proper, but that support might be difficult in the short term.

One good option for a new arena in the industrial area near Safeco and Qwest. There's not much there that people would miss, and it's already accessible by stadium parking and transit right now. However, that area isn't populated by wealthy, middle-aged white folks, whereas Bellevue is.

I do think Seattle would be receptive to an NBA team, but I'm no sure about NHL. Seattle has gone nuts for the MLS, and I don't know that the energy level is there for another sport with no recent history in the city.

Jared Lorenzen of the Northern Kentucky River Monsters of the UIFL (Ultimate Indoor Football League)

He looks a lot like John Candy from the movie Stripes.....

I thought he looked kinda like this guy:

EDIT: But with a head, of course.

So I just got back from China. It's not surprising that so many knock-off jerseys are made there, as IP theft isn't really respected anywhere, at all. I saw tons of adisad, Kapap (or Kampa), Nokla, Samsing, Polo USA, Apple mp4, Epad and a million other similar products freely available from what looked like reputable storefronts.

Yup -- and lots more just like that, in any number of derivations.

So I just got back from China. It's not surprising that so many knock-off jerseys are made there, as IP theft isn't really respected anywhere, at all. I saw tons of adisad, Kapap (or Kampa), Nokla, Samsing, Polo USA, Apple mp4, Epad and a million other similar products freely available from what looked like reputable storefronts. That's not to say you can't find the real stuff -- there are plenty of high-end shopping centers (at least there were in Beijing and Shanghai) that sell the real stuff. However, it's such a small percentage of China's population that can purchase items at those stores that it hardly matters.

I passed on an Arsenal kit/short combo that was offered at 100 CNY, or about $15 (the original price was 420 CNY/$64). I probably could have purchased two together at that price. Interestingly, there were tons of soccer and basketball jerseys available; I didn't see any NFL or NHL fakes about.

It cracks me up that people still don't understand why members of a sports logos/uniforms board would dislike counterfeitting.

Look, nobody's claiming they've never broken a law. What pisses us off is the stupid justifications people use for why they think counterfeit jerseys should be legal. They shouldn't be - it's a bunch of poor-quality garbage, and furthermore, counterfeit jersey sales harm intellectual property a lot more than, say, downloading MP3's. At least people who illegally download are doing it for personal use instead of for profit.

How many people you got posting from your computer?

None of what you said is incompatible with what I said: IP theft is bad doesn't cancel out that the NFL's pricing has given way to a knockoff industry.

Perhaps not the best choice of words, but you get my point. The NFL's pricing creates a secondary market that's extremely easy for people to participate in. I think that's obvious.

This has been my only contention in this thread -- if fakes are so readily available and as popular as they are, then clearly, the market has decided that $300 for an authentic NFL jersey is too much.

Hardly. Just because a market exists for knock off items, it doesn't mean that the original item is priced too high. It means that people who want the real thing can't or won't spend the money to get it. A 2L of Coke at $1.79 is not overpriced simply because there are people who think Big K Cola tastes exactly the same and costs $.79. Now, if Big K becomes the #1 selling brand at that price point with that recipe, then you would have something. But as long as people continue to buy authentic jerseys at the prices they are at now, there isn't any black market justification for a price reduction.

And I know you know that just because something is popular doesn't make it good or right. Especially in America.

Using your example, if a knockoff jersey were $45 and a real jersey were $75, I bet more people would buy the real authentic. Maybe not enough to maintain Reebok and the NFL's tiered jersey pricing system (where the cheap, screen-printed jersey is the $75 offering), but probably enough to still turn a profit. Similarly, if Coca-Cola were $5 for a 2 liter, I bet you'd see you Big K doing a lot better.

All I'm saying is that the NFL aids and abets the knockoff industry by pricing people out of the authentic market. We can argue all day long that people don't have a right to a jersey -- you'll get no disagreement from me! But people scoffing at $300 jerseys at Champs are instead looking to eBay and finding what they want at a price they're willing to pay.

Again, I'm not justifying purchasing illegal jerseys. I'm just saying that Reebok and the NFL are partly responsible for them being so readily available.

Jerseys arent worth $300 by any stretch. No one said anything about entitlement.

this isnt black market crap, this is right out in the open so theres no problem.

Knock offs dont make the official logo, they make it a little different. So the copyright really doesnt apply.

I dont really care, just threw that last one out there haha.

the makers of authentics arent losing money to the knock offs. People who want the so called real thing, get the real thing.

This is ridiculous. Yes, the jerseys are worth $300 if that what the market decides. If people are willing to pay $300 for them, that is what they are worth. And it absolutely is a black market. Just because some people sell them out in the open, like my dumbass friend who last year wrote on his truck windows "STANLY CUP JERSEY'S $40" [sic], doesn't mean it isn't a black market. People who get caught selling counterfeit merchandise go to jail.

This has been my only contention in this thread -- if fakes are so readily available and as popular as they are, then clearly, the market has decided that $300 for an authentic NFL jersey is too much.

I think -- and I'm pretty sure I've said it before in this thread -- that the proliferation of counterfeit jerseys (especially NFL jerseys) is indicative of how far out of whack the supply (especially price) is to demand (especially willingness to pay).

Indicative? Sure. A justification for funding illegal activity by buying bootlegs? Hell no.

A justification of sorts: this is the true market response to an artificially controlled market.

Boy, there's a lot of "I disagree, sir. Also, go yourself" in this thread. I'm not normally a thread nanny, but can we bring the discourse up a bit here?

Anyway, yes, in part, there's a disconnect between the prices of goods and the purchasing power of people those goods are being marketed to. I think -- and I'm pretty sure I've said it before in this thread -- that the proliferation of counterfeit jerseys (especially NFL jerseys) is indicative of how far out of whack the supply (especially price) is to demand (especially willingness to pay).

why cant people just buy from real retailers?

Because over the past 30 years, real wages have gone down and commodity prices have gone up.

I have not purchased a jersey in years and likely never will again, as the "official" replicas stink (the quality has plummeted over the years) and the authentics are too expensive. I agree that they are overpriced, but I don't have a right to them. It seems to me that they'd make a ton more money charging a semi-reasonable price, but I am obviously wrong.

Right. And in the meantime, people turn to eBay or whatever, think they found a deal, and off they go. Until the NFL gets serious about its prices and quality, this is the reality of NFL merchandise purchasing.

And if the NFL doesn't care (as evidenced by their lack of aggression in shutting these sites down), perhaps you (the collective you) shouldn't either.

EDIT: I should say that I don't own any counterfeit jerseys. I do own several, legit replica NHL jerseys, but those were purchased at steep discount. I won't support the price gouging of the major professional sports leagues by paying full price.

I have a pretty big jersey collection, and two or three of them are counterfeit. No matter if it's supporting the wrong cause, or it's criminal, or whatever you want to call it, spending $30 on a jersey that is so close to an authentic that most won't even notice (and those who do have to look pretty close) is a much smarter investment than spending nearly $80 on a cheap screen printed shirt that'll fall apart in the wash in less than a year. You can knock counterfeit jerseys all you want, I still find it to be less criminal than the prices they charge for the real ones.

The NFL charges too much for a terrible product and the market has responded accordingly. There are tons of free market warriors on this board -- I would imagine this would be example A of how markets work. Chinese manufacturers have provided an alternative to the official, overpriced NFL jerseys (and we're only talking about the terrible replicas) and, given the attendees at NFL games, people are buying them. I guess the NFL is still making enough on their official versions not to care, but I wonder how long that will be the case.

I'll also say that you don't see this same problem as much with other sports. This is in part due to popularity of the NFL, but I think it has more to do with price. NHL replicas are pretty close in quality to the real thing and are a better value at their price point. NBA authentics seem kind of pointless to me and replicas are good enough. I don't know enough about MLB replicas, but they seem to be more or less in the same boat as the NHL.

These are among my all-time favorite NFL uniforms:

You seem to want really hard to prove that you are indeed somehow inferior, so I'll concede the point and recognize your complete inferiority. Mentally, socially, financially and (granted I've never seen you, but I'll assume that you're really out of shape and ugly, so) physically.

Back on topic (sort of...)

By the time all is said and done, CC will look odd in both Brewers and Indians uniforms. CC on the Brewers is like Randy Johnson on the Astros and Wayne Gretzky on the Blues.

Wow.

Oh come on, that was kind of funny. It's the internet... we're just playing.

I meant "Wow" in the "Wow. You got him so good he should probably just give it up and go home," and not in the "Wow, you're a jerk" sense.

There's putdowns, and then there's definitive putdowns. Nice work is all.

And in order to keep this mildly on topic, here's Andre the Giant on an ATV:

You seem to want really hard to prove that you are indeed somehow inferior, so I'll concede the point and recognize your complete inferiority. Mentally, socially, financially and (granted I've never seen you, but I'll assume that you're really out of shape and ugly, so) physically.

Back on topic (sort of...)

By the time all is said and done, CC will look odd in both Brewers and Indians uniforms. CC on the Brewers is like Randy Johnson on the Astros and Wayne Gretzky on the Blues.

Wow.

A 10 team Big 12 with no more changes within?

And we're finally in position to have a 12-team Big Ten and a 10-team Big XII. Wonderful.

The PAC-10 seems to have open arms, barking "Come one, come all"...

b-b-b-b-but the Lofty Academic Standards

...aren't as important as crushing the Big XII. Who would have guessed?

Huh. Some combination of the best of the ACC and the best of the Big East could create a megaconference that could compete with an expanded Pac 16, Big 16, and SEC, uh, 16.

I don't want to get into REEL LINE MINT, but Louisville, Syracuse, UConn and Pitt might find themselves well taken care of in the new collegiate sports landscape after all.

Of course, again, college basketball is ruined, but then it doesn't make the same amount of money football does, does it?