rams80

I must say the concept of a bunch of New England schools playing football under the "Southern Conference" banner would be dadaism of the highest order. Of course, so would Northeastern, Drexel, and Hofstra in all sports.

The shattered wreckage formerly known as the Big East likely has enough institutional memory of the DePaul fiasco to realize that Northern Illinois will not deliver Chicago either and that means the Huskies are stuck in the MAC. Likewise Conference USA would only represent a lateral move for them, and the ACC and Big Ten have no reason to add them. /This also ignores that Illinois state schools at the moment are likely a bad bargain and certain to be financial weak sisters, what with the state missing deferring payments and everything. The Sun Belt wants football schools. That is where the existential threat to the Conference would come from.

I'm so glad we rushed a stupid ass realignment out of the gate to accommodate a now non-existent market.

You mean the Northern Illinois basketball team that has won 10 games in the last two years and infamously got held to 4 points in one half this season? You'd be laughed out of the frickin' room.

The Ohio Valley Conference is historically a peg below the Horizon. Although I suspect as far as basketball goes both are better than the Summit League.

It's 3 Illinois schools But UIC doesn't typically provide an RPI boost for anyone, which is going to make it a hard sell. Um wow, Fox News does sports. What's next? Mother Jones covering SEC spring football?

St. Louis is part of Phase II @McMurphyESPN New Big East: "Very happy at 10; whether or not we get to 12 (in future) is negotiable" They always say that...and then they always expand. (Might be a year or two from now, but they do) Yeah, but why wait. It's not like you're dealing with a different conference for the other proposed targets. Just gut the A-10 now and be done with it if that is "the plan".

More schools need to extort even more money out of their student bodies? These teams aren't independently financially viable. As far as the money directly generated by them... no, most don't. But schools that don't have football tend to have a much harder time soliciting alumni donations... especially in the fall when most alumni donations are made. Not to mention it's one of the most effective ways for a university to get its name and brand out there. I agree these programs shouldn't be a reason for schools to squeeze even more money from their students, but there are legit reasons why so many schools still keep them around. And small state schools with football don't have the alumni base or donations to balance out the football outlay either. And of course, saddling your student body with additional loan debt is going to limit what they have available to donate, so you're really robbing Peter to pay Paul. FCS-level football is honestly a financial crock and a parasite on the schools and student body.

St. Louis is part of Phase II @McMurphyESPN New Big East: "Very happy at 10; whether or not we get to 12 (in future) is negotiable"

Nah, just resurrect the 1995 logo.

More schools need to extort even more money out of their student bodies? These teams aren't independently financially viable.

Why would a football conference add basketball schools?

That's going to look great in the Hockey Hall of Fame next to the Avco Cup.

It's not basketball-only. The Olympic Sports will be in this league too. Correct, the Catholic 7 Big East will now be a top-tier non-football conference along the lines of the Atlantic 10 and host all sports but football. The former Big East football schools will keep the slot of the BE conference for football, but all other sports will fall under the umbrella of the America 12/Metro/Whatever Name we come about with Conference. Has it been said the football schools will keep big East for football? I don't think they would. It's not like the Missouri Valley and Missouri Valley Football Conferences where many of the same schools are in both but not all. Here, they would share no members, but yet share the name? I think the Big East name is dead in football.

It's not basketball-only. The Olympic Sports will be in this league too.

Kansas doesn't have that research lab and less football success than that, so the Wildcats at least would be better for the Big Ten than the Jayhawks. Almost literally no one in Kansas (incl. most K State fans) and the Big Ten believes that. The KS Board of Regents would be burned at the stake for even suggesting it. I've seen Kansans who argue my stance, so meh. They aren't going to prise any Big XII team loose in the next decade anyway, though. The 10 year grant of media rights sees to that.

You sadly need a 34th team. 33 teams equals an odd number, which would make the playoffs almost impossible. Tell that to the NHL from 1978 to 1991

Bradley, Drake and Evansville would bail. Bradley and Drake remember the last time the MVC played at having football too well. It involved annual road trips to Las Cruces, New Mexico and Amarillo, Texas for basketball.

Kansas doesn't have that research lab and less football success than that, so the Wildcats at least would be better for the Big Ten than the Jayhawks.

Mandate=why the state set up your public school in the first place and what it expects you to take care of in the course of being a University. And yes, no matter how hard schools try to branch out, typically that original core mandate still has significant pull on research and resources. Anyway Georgia Tech doesn't have the breadth of research. It is excellent at its specific niche, but that is not a large niche. That's the issue. You bring up Purdue. The CIC does not need to double or triple down on pure engineering schools. The CIC does not need Super Purdues. What does Georgia Tech bring to the table besides engineering, a lack of a fanbase, lengthy travel times, and Southerners? Yes. Such as Notre Dame. And Notre Dame. And finally Notre Dame. They haven't successfully invited an elite liberal arts-oriented private school since the 1896 Chicago meeting where they founded the damn league. But anyway, Virginia isn't an issue-more an explanation that liberal arts might be a touch more important than you think. Same for North Carolina. And a brand new 650 million dollar federal biological research facility. Academically, yes. Athletically, no. Assuming North Carolina doesn't get their accreditation pulled. Which (surprisingly) is actually in the realm of possibility in the wake of that academic scandal of theirs. There's also the 10 year grant of media rights issue. Let's wait a decade. Basketball is increasingly irrevelant and that is all the Jayhawks have going for them.

Engineering (and medicine) aside, Michigan is the liberal arts school in the state. Business? Liberal arts. Literature, Sciences, and Arts? Liberal Arts. Law school? Liberal Arts. The vast bulk of Michigan's alumni base and student body has a liberal arts background, and that is still a large part of Michigan's raison d'etre. (Hint-if you have one of the 20 largest academic library collections in the country, your school has a strong liberal arts mandate) And that's pretty much the only thing they are. Yes, they have adequate liberal arts education, but you don't go there for post-graduate degrees in those fields unless you can't avoid it. It's not sufficiently diverse. Oh Georgia Tech would love to get in, but no, engineering does not drive the boat nearly as much as you think it does. It's too narrowly focused. Illinois is also the best public liberal arts school in its state, same for Wisconsin, same for Minnesota, same for Iowa, same for Nebraska, and same for Ohio State thanks to its growth and arrogation of a liberal arts mandate. Breadth of research, as well as the potential for its expansion, is also very important. Only it doesn't do as well at it and is not as broadly. And is populated by Southerners. Virginia also likes to pretend that it's a private school when it isn't. Probably a side effect of that primary liberal arts mandate. Which it has. They're a large Midwestern flagship land grant with a sizable liberal arts mandate as well. That just screams "Big Ten". I'd be less sure about that with regards to football. Kansas doesn't pay into the revenue sharing for the Big XII, Kansas State does. Kansas State actually sells its Bowl ticket allotments as well. Citation besides bloggers and hearsay please.

Well historically Penn State is the Pennsylvania ag and science school in addition to having the liberal arts portfolio (as part of a "one school to rule them all" model combining land grant and liberal arts-like Illinois, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Nebraska-hell, toss in Maryland and Rutgers for good measure), so I wouldn't put too much money on that academic cultural difference. Now for specific comparisons-Michigan = liberal arts school, Georgia Tech = ridiculously hard sciences school and engineering school, Nebraska = land grant with a side of liberal arts. Since Nebraska has at least some credible liberal arts program, or at least more than Georgia Tech, I bet Nebraska does have more in common with Michigan. Additionally, outside of being on the East Coast and public schools with interests in serious research of some form or another, Penn State has little in common academically and culturally with Virginia and North Carolina. Penn State embraces being a public school; Virginia runs from it, and North Carolina goes much, much harder towards the liberal arts. (Speaking of which, you do understand what a land grant school is and what that entails, correct? And that in addition to the above named 5+2 schools the Big Ten has "straight" land grants Michigan State, Ohio State, and Purdue). Nebraska may not completely fit in with Michigan, but it sure as hell does with the bulk of the Big Ten's membership, AAU or no AAU. Now, while we are on the subject, North Carolina and Virginia just have the Liberal Arts portfolio, which means that, yes, they do have a lot in common with Michigan's academic culture, but not as much with the very large "cow college" land grant wing of the Big Ten and the CIC. And that wing would happen to be rather numerous and loved to get its hands on Federal Biological Research Labs. The money is just as green. You're putting the cart before the horse-prestige comes from research money and activity. AAU membership may be an indicator of research activity, but it isn't the only one, because again, it only tracks certain types of research. Now Nebraska may funnel its Committee on Institutional Cooperation (CIC) (AKA the Big Ten's academic wing) money into the "correct" research much like what Penn State and Michigan State did when they joined. And yeah, research money is rather important to the Big Ten. There's a reason Chicago is still a member of the CIC. There is one school in Kansas that is good at football and can expect to be good at football for some time to come, and it's most definitively NOT the school that recently hired Baron Harkonnen Charlie Weis and his decided schematic advantage. Additionally, did you know that Kansas State has been a net contributor to the Big XII's revenue sharing program for the bulk of that Conference's existence? Could it be that more people care about the Wildcats than they Jayhawks?

Nebraska does do research. It just doesn't do the correct research for the AAU (Ag and bio sciences are apparently no good.) FWIW the Nebraska endowment is higher than Iowa's. Also it's not a cultural mishmash; Nebraska is a Midwestern Land Grant that cares strongly about football and even plays what could be stereotyped as "Big Ten football", They also spent much of the first half of the 20th Century trying to get into the Big Ten. Nebraska IS NOT where everything went off the rails with expansion. Hell, it was probably the best move of this entire cycle. And Michigan State is also not a place where things went off the rails either; there was a conscious plan in place to build up Michigan State into a research institution. KSU has more green on the research dollar front.

And we have gone through the looking glass. Clemson and Florida State are more viable candidates than Kansas State, and will certainly be on the offer list. Florida State has actively sought a new conference in the past and has limited history in the ACC (and is likely barred from the SEC), and neither school will have much incentive to stick around after the ACC implodes with key members departing. And in less than a decade they'll be looking to leave the Big Ten. The cultural fit isn't there, the research profile and money isn't there, and the cable money won't always be there. Ideally expansion doesn't end in the league flying apart in less than a decade. If you were just going to grab one school in the first expansion, Nebraska was the one to grab, as it was the one with the National profile and cultural fit. Now, if you're going for an unwieldy monstrosity that you still think might hold together, Kansas State and the National Agro and Bio Defense Facility is a great fit. Plus, they do have a dedicated fanbase and are decent at football. There were 3 Big XII football schools with national football profiles and fanbases. The Big Ten grabbed the one that could be dislodged and wanted to be in the Big Ten without bringing tagalongs or undue travel burdens for minor sports. Yes, Nebraska has fewer people, but more people across the country want to watch the Cornhuskers than Missouri, Kansas, and A&M. And Georgia Tech is insane and stupid. Virginia and North Carolina would be stupid, but at least there's a cultural fit and a chance they might want to stay in the league. Doubling down on going after the SEC in its home turf is kind of like staging a (horse) cavalry charge against a formation of tanks. It won't end well for the Big Ten. It's going to be hilarious when the cable bubble bursts and once again a bunch of MBAs are proven to be utter idiots at, well, everything.

The death of MAAC football had less than zero impact on what happened in Division I-A. Georgetown, by choice, has had football at the "it's a hobby, really", level for decades. NYU dropped football in the 1950s, Fordham de-emphasized it to the point where it's sharing a league with Georgetown at that same time, Saint John's never played at the major level, the Ivies were kicked out of I-A in 1982, and the rest of the NY and Philly schools also dropped out of the major football level long ago or never were at that level to begin with.